Thinking of getting into 1000 yd shooting . I've been told the 308 is good but after some
research it looks like the 30-06 is pretty good too. What's the consensus from the experts , should I be looking at a different cartridge?

Thanks

You may want to look into 6.5 and .338 cartridges. These tend to have good range potential.

That is a BIG DEPENDS. If you are just desiring to shoot at 1000 yards, then there is a wide selection available: .338 Lapua, .30-338 WCF, .300 WCF, 6.5-284, and the list goes on and on. If you are speaking of the narrow field of International Palma, I believe you are pretty much limited to .308 WCF with 155 grain bullet.

If you look around a bit you may find one of the current favorites is the .338 Lapua. There is a lot of trade off when it comes to caliber, velocity and barrel life.

There are a few very skilled LR shooters on this forum. I am sure one will weigh in.

The other criteria is ammo availability either reloading or factory and price

Thanks

Aside from the rifle, the shooter, and how accurately the shots are executed, you have to think about what happens to the bullet as it goes downrange. The longer the time of flight, the longer the bullet is effected by wind, moving it laterally and vertically, and gravity, causing drop. A faster bullet will have less drop and less windage to account for than a slower bullet. Also, once the bullet begins to slow down to the speed of sound it becomes less stable. Transitioning from supersonic to subsonic requires the bullet to pass through a transitional stage called transonic. Bullets can become very unstable when transonic and accuracy becomes erratic.

Depending on the particular load, the .308 generally cannot keep bullets supersonic all the way to 1000 yards. Many 30-06 loads can. But a big problem with the .308 and .30-06 is their time of flight. The .300 magnums are preferred over .308 and .30-06 by long range shooters because of their higher velocities and resultant shorter times of flight. The .300 magnums also have no difficulty remaining supersonic beyond 1000 yards.

Of course there are other cartridges that are suitable for 1000 yard shooting. Considering the .300 magnums as a medium, you have bigger caliber cartridges like the 8mm Magnum and the various big .338 magnums (Lapua included) and up, as well as smaller caliber cartridges like the 7mm magnums and a few smaller hyper-velocity rounds. But each comes with a trade-off.

Big, heavy, long bullets going at high velocity are nice but the bigger the cartridge and heavier the bullet then the bigger and heavier the rifle and recoil. A smaller and lighter rifle shooting a smaller and lighter high velocity bullet with less recoil might seem like the way to go, but is the task to punch holes in a piece of paper 1000 yards away or to dispatch a cross-canyon elk? The 7mm Rem Mag is fine for 1000 yard target work but at 1000 yards it will only retain about 600 foot pounds of energy. For comparison, a .338 Rem Ultra Mag will still have about 1200 foot pounds of energy at 1000 Yards.

Most people who shoot long distances in their day jobs consider the .308 a very good 600 yard cartridge with 800 yards a stretch. They consider .30-06 a very good 800 yard cartridge with 1000 yards a stretch. Few dispute the 1000 yard capabilities of the .300 Win Mag. There have been some very long shots with these cartridges way beyond these distances but those are rare and, frankly, often the result of dumb luck. Most consider the .338 Lapua or .50 BMG best for distances much beyond 1000 yards or for "hard" targets.

Some questions you need to consider:

What do you want to shoot that is 1000 yards away - paper, prairie dogs, big game, etc.?

How much recoil are you willing to tolerate to do it?

How large, long, and heavy a rifle are you willing to tote around

How much muzzle blast do you consider too much?

How much do you want to spend on ammo?

Do you want to use a "standard" target rifle or do you want a specialized surgical instrument?

I would start there and the cartridge choices will narrow themselves as you answer those questions.

You should also see what others are using with success. For example:

Pennsylvania 1000yd Benchrest Heavy Gun Class Group TopList

Pennsylvania 1000yd Benchrest Light Gun Class Group TopList

.

Do you need a certain cartridge for a class in competition? Do you need to have some terminal effect on the far end?

Lot to be said for using a .308 and shooting it a lot, then switching to a higher performance (more expensive) setup when that barrel is burned out.

A lot of info here . Basically I want to shoot long distance for the challenge now but who knows where it will go (no pun intended) . I reload so thought I'd combine both. I looked at a Savage 308 for about $900 and maybe this might be a good intro. Thank all for your advice .

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

lots of good long distance information here.

F/TR class is .308's and .223's only and shoot out to 1000yds. so lots of good data for the .308

F/TR class rifles are single shot only. Because there is no magazine to restrict bullet length bullets are generally loaded way out to increase powder capacity and/or allow the use of very long bullets. Barrels are usually 30". The increased cartridge length and the long barrels allow special loads to remain supersonic out beyond 1000 yards.

Palma rifles shoot .308 Match Grade ammunition with a 155 grain bullet. Palma rifle barrels are generally 30"-32", again to get enough velocity to remain supersonic at 1000 yards.

The .308 CAN be made to shoot accurately and at supersonic speeds beyond 1000 yards but it requires special long loads and/or extra long barrels. Unless you are planning on competing in F/TR or Palma matches with specialty rifles the .308 Winchester is not the best choice for 1000 yard shooting. If you do plan to shoot that sort of competition then Savage does have some introductory rifles: the 12.6 lb, 30" barreled single shot 12 F/TR, and the 11.5 lb, 30" barreled single shot 12 Palma.

6.5-284 would be my personal choice for a 1000 yard f-open gun. barrel life is fairly short though... no free lunches at 2900fps+ for any caliber

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskan101:
A lot of info here . Basically I want to shoot long distance for the challenge now but who knows where it will go (no pun intended) . I reload so thought I'd combine both. I looked at a Savage 308 for about $900 and maybe this might be a good intro. Thank all for your advice .

If you are looking to get into LR shooting on the cheap. I would say get a savage target action, get a krieger/benchmark/brux/ect in what ever caliber you can comfortably shoot (preferably 6.5-285). Don't forget though, good groups start with good reloading practices/components.

What kind of ranges and shooting do you do now? How often do you get to a range that long?

There are plenty of cartridges that will make 1K but all have various trade offs. A heavy .223 (80 grain bullets and up) will make a 1000 shot, low recoil but very wind sensitive. The .308 is a good choice either in Palma loads or 175 Sierras. The .30-06 gives a little more velocity. The larger magnum cartridges give more velocity and recoil. The .50 BMG is a little shorter ranged than the .338 Lapua.

I havn't shot the rounds between .223 and .308 for 1000 yards, but the 6.5's and .270's are capable also.

I'm shooting a Savage in .308 with M118LR but know plenty of .300 Win Mag shooters.

Remember that the bigger the cartridge, the higher the recoil. I shot a 1,000 yard match this morning with my 6.5x284 in pretty nasty winds. On lower wind days I'll shoot a 243 or even a 22.250. Just remember to get an 8" twist barrel in the 6mm and 6.5mm cartridges and the 8" or faster in the 22s.

You can shoot the 338 and big 300s with a brake but please bring a blast shield to put between you and the other shooters on the line or else they'll hate you.

Look hard at a Savage 112 BV SS in 300 WM. That is the single shot version. By far the best trigger in a factory rifle. Load some Sierra 190's and as the golf channel ads say "Gooooooooooo Playyyyyyyyyyy."

Rich

PS: I have them in 223, 7STW, and 300 Win Mag. Very accurate rifles.

I shoot at ranges up to 800 yards at least once week. I use a .220 Swift shooting 80 gr AMAX bullets, a .308 Win shooting 180s, three .300 RUMs shooting 180-240gr, and a 7 STW shooting 150s (tried 162 AMAX but not too accurate in this gun).

When the wind is calm, all hit pretty well. The hardest wind for me is one from behind that is swirling, or a very slight wind just after the sun comes up when it drifts right then left. IMO, if you are just starting out, buy something you can shoot a lot without burning up the bbl. You can learn to shoot in the wind, but it really does take a boat load of practice. The first shot is everything - once you see where you missed, correcting is a piece of cake. That is why I am a fan of shooting often but not a lot of bullets. I frequently change locations to get different angles, etc. I would say lessons on the range are a lot less valuable than moving around, shooting in various terrain, etc.

If my total wind hold is 3 MOA or less at 800 yards, I normally come within 5 inches of my target. 4 MOA isn't too tough, but truthfully, a gusting wind 1-5 mph is a lot harder than a steady 10 mph. The most I have every held on a first shot and hit was a 9 MOA hold using my Swift at 822 yards. I actually hit the 3 inch circle I was aiming at. But it is tough to practice in such a wind as it doesn't blow that hard very often in AZ.

My newest rifle is a .338 Edge, Stiller action, Lilja bbl, McMillan stock, and Jewell trigger. I plan on shooting 300 SMKs and/or Hornady/Nosler/Berger high BC bullets. I have not tried it yet. My next rifle will be a 6.5-284.

Also, get a good spotting scope and learn to read the mirage. Not seeing any mirage is a red flag that wind is blowing harder than you think - at that point I look at the nearby vegetation.

All of my shooting is done sitting with a bipod and shooting sling. Carting around all kinds of rests, only being able to shoot prone, etc. is not appealing to me.