The Accurate Reloading Forums
Shooting Schools - going long off the sticks!
08 January 2019, 09:21
10generationShooting Schools - going long off the sticks!
Had many opportunities over 300 yds this year, curious as to opinions on best place to get good on longer range off the sticks? Know many places will work on prone technique and can teach a lot about ballistics, wind, etc. Just curious if there is a school with more of an Africa bias?
08 January 2019, 16:12
Blair 338RUMBest I've done of a pair of sticks was 400 yards on Oryx.
They just aren't stable enough.
09 January 2019, 04:29
10generationAgree, I've been successful up to 350 but want to be more consistent. Mostly for SA and Namibia.
09 January 2019, 06:48
jplHang out with the local F-Class guys. They routinely shoot between 600-1000 yards prone, and read lots of wind and dink about with ballistics all the time. They're paper-punchers but if you can put them in the X-ring at range then it's no different shooting at meat.
Otherwise experience is the best teacher in my opinion. Go figure it out by shooting off sticks (or prone, whatever) and just see what works for you.
09 January 2019, 07:30
TexKDFTW Ranch here in Texas has a safari shooting school. From what I hear around everyone who went says that it is super. You shoot all kinds of distances and at moving targets in a full safari of possible combinations. I havent heard of anyone leaving unhappy.
I have not been so I cant say personally. I can say it isnt the most inexpensive training. I am pretty sure there are AR guys here who have been there.
http://ftwsaam.com/SAAMTraining.aspx?id=sfr10 January 2019, 00:42
ZekeShikarOver 4 decades ago I was training for a backpack Dall sheep hunt and I asked my uncle (who was a coach) what the best exercise was for getting ready for backpacking.
It was interesting and too simplistic for me at the time but he said "go backpacking". That was too easy!
With that said, I'm not always one for "shooting" schools (actually never.. but I love to learn from others) so maybe I'm not the best source of info but my reply to you would be to "go shoot off sticks".
Many many sessions with great trigger control and try to make every shot count but not to the point where you develop target-panic. I think the session-count would be as or more important than the actual round-count.
You'll soon find what works for YOU and what doesn't and you'll have fun doing it.
Just my 2 cents...for free,
Zeke
10 January 2019, 08:57
Blair 338RUMI had a pair of custom aluminium sticks made for my height and with very heavy wall thickness so they would not flex.
The most stable way to use them is sitting, on the side of a hill so the vee of the sticks is level with your line of sight.
I also found that holding one leg of the sticks with your non trigger arm braced when standing stopped lateral swaying a lot.
11 January 2019, 09:10
10generationThanks guys, will check out FTW, think I read that dogcat went there.
11 January 2019, 17:55
p dog shooterIf you were close to Wis. I would say come and train with me.
I have a private 700 yard range.
Have instructor certificates in rifle, patrol rifle, pistol, shotgun, police shotgun from 3 certifying organizations.
I was in charge of developing training programs for my departments academy.
I am sure I could develop a very personalize training program for you or any one else.
Decades of instructor experience, a couple more decades to add to that of shooting/hunting for over 5 decades of total experience.
Just this fall my hunting partner who never had shot much past a 100 yards. Took his mule deer buck off a set of sticks I helped him build.
I am always interested in training and helping people improve their skills.
12 January 2019, 07:30
10generationThanks P Dog, I"m on the west coast so that would be a bit of a haul. Fantastic you have a 700 yard range - do you use a gator to get back and forth to the targets?
12 January 2019, 08:10
Mike_DettorreTo shoot long range accurately and consistently off of sticks or quite frankly anything else, a rear support of some kind is highly desirable.
So, first I would figure out a rear support system for both standing and sitting sticks. Bipod Buddy and home made quad sticks come to mind.
Also, I would contact Kyler Hamann who posts here, I am pretty sure he can customize a course for you and he is in the Paso Robles area.
Mike
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
12 January 2019, 09:35
larryshoresPersonally, if I was going to shoot that far, I would want a better rest than sticks.
I did the TX Rifle & Pistol Academy a few years back. I shot out to 600 yards. Definitely worth it.
12 January 2019, 18:49
Kyler HamannHi 10gen,
Mike D. let me know you were looking for a place to train. On one of the ranches I use for guided hunting, I've set up several ranges for helping hunters get ready for hunts and practice long range shooting (aka learn their limitations).
We have a steel plate range with targets from 225 to 1,035 yards and I've set up what I call a "walking course" with steel plates in various hunting situations from 125 to 325 yards.
We can work on shooting sticks, kneeling, prone, and find out what distances those various techniques will work for your skills and equipment. As well as guiding and competing for about 30 years, I've been to Africa a few times and have helped people get ready for safaris many times.
I'm on the Central Coast about halfway between LA and SF. I'll be out in the field today, but feel free to email (khamann(at)boaring.com) anytime.
Great hunting,
Kyler
12 January 2019, 21:20
p dog shooterquote:
Originally posted by 10generation:
Thanks P Dog, I"m on the west coast so that would be a bit of a haul. Fantastic you have a 700 yard range - do you use a gator to get back and forth to the targets?
Normally my pickup.
I had a pit that if I have a volunteer that can radio back hits.
But haven't used it in a long time I would have to do some improvements to make it safe again.
15 min. with the tractor and bucket.
13 January 2019, 08:12
10generationThanks Kyler, and thanks MikeD, I'll reach out.
When I was last in Namibia, ran into a guy using stable sticks. Knew his PH and asked him after the safari what he thought of them. He said, they take a few more seconds to set up, but give a LOT more stability.
The guy who had them set them up for me in the guest house we were in and the stability was far greater than traditional sticks. They might be part of the solution for longer shots on safari.
https://4stablestick.fr/gb/