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I do not consider myself a long range shooter in any way shape or form. However, I am interested in being a consistent shooter, out to 600 yards. While many may say that 600 yards is not long range, it is to me. In addition, I realize that I need to research and practice in order to consistently shoot well at this range. Due to where I hunt, and some opportunities I have had, shooting at longer distances would help a lot! Now, back to the guns. I gave my youngest son my 30-06, my middle son has a Remington .280, and I gave my oldest son my favorite gun, my Browning A-bolt 300 Win Mag (big browning fan and love the actions). My remaining gun that I may use is a .7mm WSM. I really like the gun but factory ammunition availability and variety is not that great. Here is what I am hunting: Bear, Deer, Elk, Antelope- Mostly hunting in the West. Here are my questions: 1- Should I just stay with the .7mm WSM. If so, what mods./changes (if any would you suggest). 2- If not the .7mm WSM, what caliber would you recommend? I have been considering the .300 Win and the .300 WSM. 3- Looking at a scope similar to this: http://ads.midwayusa.com/produ...us-illuminated-matte However, I am open to suggestions and the price of this scope is about the max of my budget for a scope. Interested in what you would suggest for a scope(s). Most likely I will not reload and will continue to use factory ammunition. I would really like to keep my budget in the $3,000-$3,500 range. I am very interested in your suggestions and advice. Thanks, Jason | ||
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The Remington 7mm Magnum is a proven long range caliber and for commercial ammunition has a good range of selections for bullet weights, style, etc. 600yds. is what I would call long range for hunting purposes, but that distance is not a problem for the 7mm Magnum cartridge, can reach much longer range quite well. Within your budget limit you can find yourself a basic Remington Model 700, re barrel if felt needed, install quality trigger unit, bed stock if felt needed(probably a good idea regardless,) and for a scope/mount a Leupold or similar quality would do nicely. Most go with the variable versions of scopes, but I prefer fixed power with as basic reticle as available, duplex or at most a mil dot type for ranging. Multiple hash marks, scales, etc. only serve to clutter up the picture for me. Would not scrimp on the mounting system, high quality here is a big plus for surety of performance of the scope system. If planning on "taking game" at the 600yd. range, purchase a number of different types/bullet weights/design, ammunition and practice and keep records of the performance of each for future reference. Pride of ownership of the rifle is a factor, but "pretty is as pretty does" and poor prior planning produces pee poor performance and panic. Best of luck to you. | |||
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The 7WSM is a good round for long distance shooting. You say that you like the gun, so I think the only thing I can suggest here is that you reload for it. Reloading would let you tune the ammo for that rifle, the type of shooting you want to do, and would reduce the cost of ammo so you could practice more. With a good setup and some practice I think your goal is within reach. If you only want to shoot factory ammo, then I'd suggest looking at what's available and build a combination around that. I'm not very knowledgeable here, because the last factory ammo I bought was wally world 22 rimfire like 8 years ago when they actually had some on the shelf. But I think people are having good luck with hornady 6.5 creedmore ammo, for example. I think some of the "tactical" match shooters use factory ammo sometimes, so that might be a place to look for more info. That scope looks like a good one to me, though I don't have first hand experience with it. I've had good results with the nightforce NSX scopes. Check out precisionrifleblog.com for a good review of scopes in that category. The PRS has a factory gun category that limits the cost of the rifle and optics to something like $2k, so that might be a good place to look for ideas to keep the project under budget. Good luck, and let us know how it goes! | |||
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Jason, Bear, deer and Elk at 100-250 yards is one thing. When you stretch it out to 600 yards, you have to keep an eye on what energy remains when your bullet reaches the target. I'd look at a 300 Win Mag or equivalent, although your 7 WSM with the heavier 160-180gr bullets would work as well. If you could find someone who used the 7 WSM and reloads, perhaps you could have them develop a load(s) for your rifle. Then you could send the specs to Superior or Safari Arms and have them load for you. The 7 WSM is a popular cartridge with the long range guys. Maybe you could post an ad in Long Range Hunter for a volunteer. | |||
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I would get a 300 wsm. Good factory ammo, the 180s are plenty to 600 yards. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Only if you demand a short action and see any benefit to that, don't mind feed & ejection issues, and want ALMOST as much power as a 300 Win Mag :-) | |||
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Have owned 3 300 WSM not a single feeding problem with either of them. Short actions are inherently stiffer than long actions and recoil on the 300 WSM is less than the 300 win mag. Mike What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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First off, I appreciate all the great advice. Secondly, I want to emphasize that I never intend to take 600 yards shots and most likely will never consider myself a king range shooter. I always want to get as close as I can, for the best possible shot. Having said this, if I do have an opportunity at a longer shot and there is no other way to get closer, I'd like to have the confidence and skill to make the shot. I can see some great advantages to reloading. Especially, if I stick with the 7mm WSM. I'll have much better load options! Again, some great comments and advice! | |||
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Can't beat .308 holes in game when hunting...I would go with the .300wm without hesitation. Lots of bullets available and reloading materials, fairly easy to get casings bullets, primers etc. No question this cartridge has stood the test of time on lots of continents, with the proper bullet there's not much or situations it can't handle... .300 am, all day, everyday ! | |||
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If I was starting from scratch (I have too many guns already to start from scratch), I'd go with a reputable provider of a proven long-range rifle and caliber...such as GUNWERKs LR1000 rifle possibly in 3OO RUM or 300 WM or 338 Lapua or Edge. The 338s kick more, but they are great LR hunting guns. I would have them build me a rifle exactly the way I wanted it, of course with their advice. This will be more than your price range, but IMO worth it...YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! Beside you will have the GUNWERKs people to help you get educated on LR hunting and service the rifle if needed. There are other good providers besides Gunwerks, you could compare and contrast. | |||
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Interesting that on Wednesday my son killed his cow elk with my 7mm WSM. 140 grain Noslers at 300 yards. Bullet worked well, shot was not perfect. This was due to DAD telling him to take a quarting shot that could have been a little better. However, everything worked out well! Although the gun performed well, again, I still think I'll go with the .300 WM. Reasons: Past experience, suggestions here, and a lot of bullet options. Started looking at scopes today. Looked at Vortex, Leopoldo, and Nightforce. I clearly liked the nightforce the best. Now that my hunts are completed for the year, I'll have plenty time to decide. Thanks again for the great comments. I really enjoy this site and hope to help some of you in the future! | |||
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If it's animals and not paper, I would also vote for the .300 WM. If it is Elk and 600+ yards, then no question the choice needs to be something like the .338 Laupa. If it is a money no object sort of decision, then another vote for Gunwerks. Their stuff simply shoots better out of the box than most anyone else's stuff. Combined with the G-Seven ballistics calculator, you will quickly build confidence for the one cold bore shot that counts encounter. Otherwise, building a 600 yard + capable rifle is not a big deal, it just takes time to put together and sort out all the little accuracy niggles. The Gunwerks route just cuts out all the development headaches and most of all the time it takes. ___________________ Just Remember, We ALL Told You So. | |||
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