Bill,
If you need a real case to try on QL, I could provide you information on my unfired 45-90 test loads from 60 grains to 69 grains of N133 with Fed 215 match magnum primers.
All with NF 350SS bullets.

Im geared up to try N133 in my new Marlin 95, 45-70. been years since I hunted with either the 45-70 or the 45-90..

So whats my best path with the Marlin std. 1971 45-70 to make it get up to around 2100 perhaps???

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Bill,
If you need a real case to try on QL, I could provide you information on my unfired 45-90 test loads from 60 grains to 69 grains of N133 with Fed 215 match magnum primers.
All with NF 350SS bullets.

cr,
If you can give me exact measurements,length of brass,H2o capacity,length of bullet,seating depth,I will run some numbers.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Im geared up to try N133 in my new Marlin 95, 45-70. been years since I hunted with either the 45-70 or the 45-90..

So whats my best path with the Marlin std. 1971 45-70 to make it get up to around 2100 perhaps???

What bullet weight are you going to load?

Bill73,
Starline 45-90 specs:
Case Length 2.4 inch
Case capacity 89.68 grains
NF 350 grain SS bullet length 1.06 inch
Seating depth .7 inch (no rings showing)
Bullet caliber .458 bore rider
N133 loads in grains are 60,65,67,69. The last load does not want to seat low enough for the top ring to be in the case(maybe not useable).

Thank you for the help.

PM sent.

Ive used the 350 Hornady RN with outstanding results in the 45-90, so it should pick up the 45-70 which Ive not had great success with on elk in the past..I will play with N-133 also in my 71 in 348 IMP that seems to duplicate the 35 Whelen.

Ray,

In case you’re not aware Hornady makes their 350gr 458 pill in RN and FN configurations. The FN is a better proposition for a tube fed levergun.

There is pressure tested 45/70 loading data available on the Hodgdon website. I’ve had good results using Reloader 7 / H4198 powders. They produce good velocities at reasonable pressures and loads are generally very accurate.

While N-133 might be a good option for high pressure 45/90 loads I think it will be too fast for optimal results in a 348 Imp. Given that powders like H4350 work really well in a regular 348, I’d be looking to start there and then look at slightly slower burning speed powders for the AI version.

quote:

While N-133 might be a good option for high pressure 45/90 loads

JFE,
MY reason for using N133 on experimental loads is that it generates LESS peak pressure than other powders at the same velocities and is therefore less risky when pushing beyond usual known upper velocities.
N133 also compress well with a 24 inch drop tube and is also an accurate powder in the range of pressures wherein it operates.

Have you seen the pressure traces generated by N133 VS other powders with high sharp pressure peaks?

Perhaps you might want to re-read my post again.

I am assuming your experiments with N-133 worked as you stated in your 45/90. If you have pressure traces of N-133 compared to other powders in the 45/70, I think we would all like to see them.

The traces that I have printed and saved are from my 1895 .405 WCF with factory ammo, N133 and with TAC. I just shared them with a couple other hand loaders and will gladly share them with you.
Found the email with traces and explanation to Mike Brady.
provide your email address and I will send this tonight.

CRSHELTON,
Do you have mikes tel and email number, its been awhile since I talked to Mike and lost track of him, if thats a problem have him contact me, I shot a lot of big game for him with his bullets..

Do you have any load data on the 45-70 and N133 or is that applicable?

RAY,
YES AND YES.

I will PM to you later today along with some pressure traces.

Northfork@vcn.com is email for Mike Brady I am still working to get traces to post. They ae easy to email if you can provide your email address.

Subject: Some .405 WCF pressure traces



Mike,
This pressure testing was done with my Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 whose chamber has been lengthened to allow seating the 400 grain .411 Woodleigh bullets at their cannelure, so the pressures should be somewhat lower than in an 1895 with original chamber. Alas, I do not have another .405 shooter to confirm the 300 grain pressures in a factory original chamber.

The date was Friday 11/23/12 in an indoor 50 yard range with other shooters on both sides of me; the tables are concrete as are the baffles between tables, but when many shooters were active, there was much noise and vibration. At times, the guys shooting the AK47 just to my right would run through 10 -20 shots rapid fire and that alone would generate low level 5k psi traces, even with the trigger level set at 5; next time out, I will raise the trigger level to 10 to see if that can eliminate the “ambient noise and vibration” traces.

I did the shooting and Colin ran the laptop with Pressure Trace II software on it. PTII generated the attached reports and I scanned them and attached them to this email.
1. The Hornady factory 300 grain FP JSP whose velocity in my rifle had been chrongraphed at 2225 fps and averaged 33,833 psi. My only explanation for the traces being shifted .5 ms is the ambient noise, since previous traces with this load were not so shifted. Three rounds were fired, but Colin deleted one due to corruption by ambient noise.
2. My hand loads with NF 300 gr CPS bullets and VV N133 powder had been measured at 2250 fps and these averaged 24,945 psi; that is 8,888 psi less than the Hornady factory loads at essentially the same velocity. Here Trace 3 shows the shift to the right; possibly the other shooters had been reloading when Traces 1 and 2 were fired. To me, the beauty of the N133 trace is the smooth parabolic shape, the relatively slow rise factor, and the lack of a sharp peak which combine to generate lower peak pressure than the factory Hornady.
3. My TAC hand loads with .411 Woodleigh 400 grain solids were measured at 2076 fps and averaged 48,028 psi with a peak of 48914 psi. Again, two of the traces are shifted to the right The false traces beyond 1.0 ms were caused by the rifle barrel recoiling up from the hard rubber front rest and then dropping back down on it. Note that the rise factor is low and the slope of the curve is steep with a definite peak. With a standard chamber, this load would have likely been above 50,000 psi and possibly well above.

As expected, the N133 generated significantly less pressure than the factory loads. I plan to send this data to VV and ask them which of their powders would be best for the 400 grain loads. If I can reach the same velocity of approximately 2100 fps with significantly lower pressure and maintain accuracy (the TAC produces very consistent velocity and is accurate) , then it would be worth switching from TAC. I also will try the BLC-2 with which you equaled TAC velocities with 300 grain bullets, but with less pressure.

My initial test loads with TAC and the 210 grain Hornady .410 XTP pistol bullet reached 2100 fps and averaged 35,000 psi which is just above Hornady factory 300 loads. These TAC loads traces exhibited similar rapid pressure rise as the TAC 400 gr loads. After more research on the best powders, I plan to do further loading of this bullet for both plinking and hunting deer and hogs under 200 pounds.

Please advise me of any comments or questions you have on the above. Some fun, eh?
Regards,
Charles
Charles R. Shelton
Shelton Technologies, Inc.
Mobile 214-536-7248

Im surprised that MIke is still using Northfork@

He sold out several years ago, and now the new buyers have sold out or gone under??/ Have I missed something??
my email is rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com, web page is down since I retired.
Ray

Ray,
You may have missed the announcement but I will catch you up:
Mike sold NF to a US company and that US company sold NF to a Swedish company who moved all the bullet making equipment to Sweden. North fork is back in production in Sweden and shipping bullets to their distributors.

Inloading the win mod 95 carbine and rifle in the 30-06 and the 30-40 Krag, now in the 45-70 Ive found no significant difference in velocity. Is this common in these punkin rollers.