The Accurate Reloading Forums
Testing .22 LR ammo In A Bleiker Rifle - Updated With Targets

This topic can be found at:
http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8711043/m/9871088921

28 March 2010, 11:59
Saeed
Testing .22 LR ammo In A Bleiker Rifle - Updated With Targets
Ladies and Gentlemen,

We got one of those Swiss made Bleiker rifles. This particular model is supposed to be one of the most accurate made for the .22 long rifle cartridge.

I collected a selecion of all the .22 ammo I could get my hands on - over 40 different makes and types.

I have already shot them at 50 yards, and I am about to finish shooting them at 75 yards, and then I will do the same at 100 yards.

I got some amazing groups, and some which are, frankly, are absurdly bad!

This has re-enforced what I had experienced with 22 ammo in the past.

That is being consistently inconsistant.

Even among the most expensive match ammo from the likes of Eley and Lapua.

I will post the complete results as soon as I finish the 100 yards shooting.

Shooting is done off the bench, with a 25X Leupold scope. 5, 5-shot groups are fired.

Targets at 50 yards

Targets at 75 yards

Targets at 100 yards


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
28 March 2010, 17:03
Judge Jerry
Your test posting is one I really look forward to seeing.
03 April 2010, 03:28
butchlambert
This is the reason the BR rimfire shooters buy several lots of Eley and Lapua ammo and then buy cases of what works in their rifle. The Brits have an advantage on ammo. They can test in Eley's tunnel and claim the best lots first. The guys know which machine and when they come off the line. The good ammo is $20-$25 a box and 100 times that for a case. Rimfire shooting is very expensive now.
Butch
14 April 2010, 16:07
Saeed
I am in the process of shooting these ammo at 100 yards now, then will post complete details - including photos of the groups - once I am finished.

In the meantime, I thought you might find the following of interest.

The following are the average of 5 5-shopt groups at 50 yards.

0.162 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS
0.164 Lapua Midas Plus
0.177 Lapua Polar Biothelon
0.187 Eley Match EPS
0.193 Eley Match
0.203 Lapua Midas M
0.215 Lapua Center X
0.216 Western Value Pack
0.229 Lapua Signum
0.241 Lapua Master L
0.243 Eley Pistol Match
0.256 Olin Ball
0.256 Akah X-Zone
0.261 Lapua Midas L
0.261 Lapua Master M
0.263 Eley Tenex Semi Auto
0.270 Lapua Super Club
0.272 Eley Tenex
0.303 Lapua Standard Plus
0.312 CCI Standard Velocity
0.319 RWS R 50
0.319 Eley Standard
0.328 SK High Velocity
0.339 Eley Club Xtra
0.340 Winchester T22
0.356 Federal Champion
0.362 Eley Subsonic HP
0.371 CCI Mini Mag
0.376 Federal American Eagle
0.377 Norinco Target
0.380 Sellier And Bellot Club
0.384 Eley Club
0.387 Eley Sport
0.388 Totem
0.392 Swartklip Match Trainer
0.398 Federal Gold Medal
0.403 Swartklip HV
0.409 Eley Match Xtra Plus
0.424 Sellier And Bellot Standard
0.443 Remington Target
0.461 Lapua Crow HP
0.475 Eley Silhouex
0.479 Magtech
0.498 Eley High Velocity
0.513 Winchesdter Super X
0.516 Kassnar Concorde
0.539 CCI Blazer
0.560 Winchester Supreme Pistol
0.576 Norinco Pistol Revolver
0.593 SK Standard
0.611 Sellier And Bellot HP
0.626 SK Standard HP
0.686 Logo HV
0.956 Pobjeda Target


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
14 April 2010, 16:44
Saeed
The following are groups at 75 yards.

0.274 Lapua Center X
0.283 Lapua Standard Plus
0.295 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS
0.307 Lapua Midas M
0.329 Lapua Master M
0.346 Eley Match
0.373 Lapua Polar Biothlon
0.399 RWS R 50
0.432 Lapua Midas L
0.448 Eley Tenex Semi Auto
0.467 Eley Match EPS
0.474 Lapua master L
0.491 Eley Match Xtra Plus
0.494 CCI Standard
0.496 Eleu Subsonic HP
0.507 Eley Sport
0.512 Federal American Eagle
0.513 SK High Velocity
0.514 Eley Standard
0.516 Eley Tenex
0.516 Lapua Crow HP
0.532 Western Value Pack
0.533 Federal Champion Target
0.535 Lapua Midas Plus
0.564 Akah X Zone
0.566 Olin Ball
0.573 Eley Club Xtra
0.616 Lapua Signum
0.631 Winchester T22
0.639 Swartklip HV HP
0.641 Eley Club
0.642 Eley Silhouex
0.647 CCI Mini Mag
0.679 Eley Pistol Match
0.682 Swartklip Match Trainer
0.690 Federal Gold Medal
0.692 Remington HV
0.703 Lapua Super Club
0.720 Winchester Super X
0.738 Eley High Velocity
0.759 Kassnar Concorde
0.765 Sellier And Bellot Club
0.770 Winchester Supreme Pistol
0.770 Norinco target
0.775 CCI Blazer
0.802 Norinco Pistol Revolver
0.841 LVE Logo HV
0.855 Sellier And Bellot Standard
0.871 Magtech
0.923 Sellier And Bellot HP
0.934 SK Standard HP
1.017 Remington Target
1.257 Totem Standard
1.442 SK Standard
1.578 Pobjeda target


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
14 April 2010, 19:47
DMB
Magnificent testing, and the results are something of value to all of us 22 Rimfire rifle shooters.
Thank you for taking the time to do all of the testing, and reporting the results.
Guess I'm gonna be buying some NEW ammo... tu2 clap




15 April 2010, 18:51
Hot Core
Completely agree with DMB - amazing groups.
15 April 2010, 19:35
LE270
How do you measure groups to an accuracy of a thousandth of an inch (three decimal places)?

That seems impossible to me. Am I wrong about that?

I agree very much with all those who are praising and thanking you for doing this testing of .22 rimfire ammo.


"How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?"
15 April 2010, 22:44
DMB
quote:
Originally posted by LE270:
How do you measure groups to an accuracy of a thousandth of an inch (three decimal places)?

That seems impossible to me. Am I wrong about that?

I agree very much with all those who are praising and thanking you for doing this testing of .22 rimfire ammo.


Groups can be measured to three decimal places using special measuring tools, or dial indicators. The bechrest folks all use the special tools designed for that purpose in Registered matches. I use a Mitutoyo 6" dial caliber to measure my groups to three decimal places. But, when I post group sizes here, I usually go with the closest 1/16", not decimal equivalents.

Don




16 April 2010, 17:02
Saeed
I use the same tool, with digital calipers. Whatever the readout is, I deduct 0.222 from the reading and arrive at the size of the group.

I add all five groups, then divide by five to arrive at the average.

I am about half way through the 100 yards test, I will post the results when I finish as above, then collect all the groups, photograph them with the respective ammo, and prepare my final report.

Here is an example




www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
16 April 2010, 21:48
DMB
WOW, those groups are amazing.
Good shooting!!




16 April 2010, 22:39
Saeed
wait till you some of the groups that look like a shotgun patteren!


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
16 April 2010, 23:04
DMB
Saeed,

Did you install a scope on the Bleiker for your testing?
Please post a picture of your Bleiker rifle. It is VERY accurate, and I would love seeing what it looks like.

Thank you,

Don




17 April 2010, 08:07
Saeed


The Scope is a Leupold 8.5-25 Long Range.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
17 April 2010, 16:50
DMB
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:


The Scope is a Leupold 8.5-25 Long Range.


AWESOME!!!! WOW!!!! Big Grin

Thanks for posting the pix.




20 April 2010, 12:03
Saeed
Here is the final results of our test.

The following are groups at 100 yards.

0.455 Eley Match
0.510 Lapua Midas Plus
0.549 Lapua Midas M
0.611 Lapua Polar Biothlon
0.611 Eley Tenex Ultimate EPS
0.619 Eley Match EPS
0.622 Eley Club
0.630 Lapua Center X
0.631 RWS R50
0.679 Eley Tenex Semi Auto
0.694 Lapua Midas L
0.729 Eley Tenex
0.739 Lapua Master L
0.753 Lapua Super Club
0.785 Lapua Master M
0.831 Eley Sport
0.851 Eley Match Xtra
0.859 Lapua Standard Plus
0.867 Akah X-Zone
0.877 Eley Pistol Match
0.907 Norinco Target
0.924 Eley Silhouex
0.939 CCI Standard
0.952 Eley Subsonic HP
0.963 Magtech
0.970 Olin Ball
0.978 Kassnar Concorde
0.995 Eley Club Xtra
1.009 Western Value Pack
1.032 Federal Champion
1.087 Norinco Pistol Revolver
1.100 CCI Mini Mag
1.112 Lapua Crow HP
1.143 Winchester T22
1.142 Federal Gold Medal
1.144 federal American Eagle
1.156 Swartklip Hollo Point
1.165 Lapua Signum
1.170 Swartklip Match Trainer
1.175 Federal Champion Value Pack
1.182 SK high Velocity
1.201 Totem
1.224 Winchester Super X
1.358 Eley Standard
1.367 Remington High Velocity
1.375 CCI Blazer
1.414 Eley High Velocity
1.450 Remington Target
1.504 LVE Logo
1.813 SK Standard
1.879 S&B Club
1.947 S&B Hollow Point
2.073 SK Standard HP
2.221 S&B Standard
2.266 Pobjeda Target


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
20 April 2010, 17:55
onefunzr2
quote:
Shooting is done off the bench, with a 25X Leupold scope. 5, 5-shot groups are fired.



1. On a recent AR thread some folks recommended a barrel break-in procedure for rimfire rifles. Did you do so on this rifle?

2. By my calculations; 55 different brands, times 25 shots per brand, equals 1375 shots. Was there any barrel cleaning done between brands or shots?
20 April 2010, 18:48
Saeed
We have tried all the usual tricks which are supposedly help rim fire shoot better.

Such as shooting a few rounds of the same ammo before shooting it for groups; putting a marker on the stock so that it returns to exactly the same position; we have tried putting silk and Teflon tape on the stock and rest, so the rifle slides back with no resistance.

None of the above gave us any better results.

So for the above test. The rifle was cleaned, then we fired a box of 50 through it.

After that we shot the groups you see the results of which above.

No cleaning was done between groups at all.

We have shot 55 different types of ammo, for 5, 5-shot groups, at 3 seperate distances. Which equates to over 4,000 rou7nds of ammo.

In fact, it is quite a lot more, as at each distance, we had to adjust the scope almost for each typy of ammo.

It became even worse at 100 yards.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
20 April 2010, 21:59
DMB
Saeed,

Thank you for doing the testing and posting your results. I for one saved your results for future use.
Interesting point you make about cleaning and break in.
One question however; do you ever have any accuracy problems with your 22's due to the carbon ring that forms at the front of the chamber after many shots are fired? If so, how do you handle it?
Also, does the Bleiker rifle have one of the excellent European two stage, 2 ounce triggers on it?

Thanx in advance,

Don




21 April 2010, 19:49
Saeed
I cannot seem to find a carbon ring at the front of the chamber whenh I look through a bore scope!!?

Yes, the Bleiker has a target 2 stage trigger.

This test had me thinking.

How would these same ammo perform in different rifles?


We have quite a number of 22 rifles here, and I am thinking of using the same test with different rifles.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
21 April 2010, 20:15
DMB
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I cannot seem to find a carbon ring at the front of the chamber whenh I look through a bore scope!!?

Yes, the Bleiker has a target 2 stage trigger.

This test had me thinking.

How would these same ammo perform in different rifles?


We have quite a number of 22 rifles here, and I am thinking of using the same test with different rifles.


The barrel harmonics may be different and accuracy could vary. I have some ammo that shoots very well in one rifle that doesn't shoot well in other rifles.




23 April 2010, 17:40
Saeed
Targets at 50 yards

Targets at 75 yards


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
23 April 2010, 21:15
Saeed
I am hoping to find time to do the 100 yard results tomorrow.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
23 April 2010, 23:58
Snowwolfe
Where can you buy one of those rifles and what do they cost?
They are so fricking cool!


My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
24 April 2010, 04:12
Fjold
Saeed,

I'm amazed at some of the groups that the "cheaper" ammunition shot. Is the "Western Value Pack" the Winchester Western ammunition?


Thanks,


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

24 April 2010, 05:08
Zoboomafoo_dude
Wow, thanks for sharing Saeed! Great information for all of us. Now I just need to order some of the top performers in your test and try them out in my 22 rifle.
24 April 2010, 16:29
Saeed
Well, I never realized that there was so much interest in 22s!

I have received some requests that we do this test with normal hunting rifles.

We have a number of these, including rifles from Anschutz, Kimber, Cooper, Ruger, H&K, BRNO and others.

I hope to eventually run the same test on most of them.

In fact. I have started with an Anschutz 1451 rifle. I have fired groups using 6 of the ammo tested before.

5 groups were worse than with the Bleiker, and one was actually better.

I will post the results once I am finished.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
25 April 2010, 03:02
waterman
I am quite interested in the details of the testing. Outdoor or indoor range? If indoors, any problems from ventilation fans, etc.? If outdoors, time of day, temperature, wind, orientation of wind. I have read of one other such test, first tried indoors but ventilation fans disturbed the air worse than if the test was conducted outdoors. The tester was in the Nevada desert and did his testing in the early morning, just at dawn. Also, what sort of bench, front & rear rests, rest techniques?
25 April 2010, 07:47
vapodog
Great thread....thanks Saeed!


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
25 April 2010, 16:59
Saeed
Targets at 100 yards]








You can all see our setup.

The tunnel has 2 very large extractor fans, one at 35 yards and one at 100 yards.

Their main purpose is to remove powder and dust residue from the tunnel. The shooting room as air conditioned, and we purposely set the extractor fans not to create a sort of a wind tunnel effect, so they do not have too much effect on the air conditioner.

One cannot feel any air draft going into the tunnel.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
25 April 2010, 19:25
LE270
I assume that Bleiker rifle is a single shot.

Is that correct?

_________


"How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?"
25 April 2010, 19:34
Saeed
quote:
Originally posted by LE270:
I assume that Bleiker rifle is a single shot.

Is that correct?

_________


Yes it is.

I have started shooting an Anschutz 1451, which has a 5 shot magazine.

But, I am loading it one shot at a time.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
25 April 2010, 19:58
LE270
Saeed,

With all this testing you are doing and with sponsoring the Accuratereloading website, you are performing a huge public service for the world.

If they gave a Nobel Prize for public service, you should definitely get it!

Another interesting test with that Anschutz rifle would be one that contrasts the groups you get using it by loading it one shot at a time, vs. the groups you would get if you loaded the cartridges into its magazine and fired them from the magazine.


"How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?"
25 April 2010, 21:52
waterman
Thank you for posting the photos. When shooting, do you turn off the lights in the tunnel except for the one illuminating the target?
25 April 2010, 22:04
Saeed
No, all the lights remain on.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
26 April 2010, 09:37
DFC
Could you post the cost of the different ammo you are testing.
26 April 2010, 11:36
Saeed
Prices will vary from country to country, so anyone interested should check the availability and prices in their own country.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
26 April 2010, 12:26
Saeed
Gentlemen,

I have been getting quite a few questions about this test.

My friend Dwight Scott, who is a well known bench rest shooter and master gunsmith. Many of the top bench rest winners use rifles built by Dwight.

Dwight was visiting us here a couple of years ago, and he was asked to see if he can help us with shooting a number of 22 rim fire rifles, with an assortment of ammo.

We tried all the usual tricks which are claimed to help with improving the accuracy of 22 rim fire ammo.

We tried shooting the same ammo for several groups - to check the claim that the lube of each ammo helps it improve the accuracy after a few shots.

We cou7ld not see any pattern to this at all.

Anothet trick we tried was letting the rifle recoil straight back with Teflon tape on the stopck and the rest.

Again, this did not help much.

So our test above is merely to duplicate what any normal shooter might get if he was using the same rifle and ammo we are using.

That is why we have decided to run the test on several rifles we have.

From the results above in the Bleiker rifle, it would seem that the match ammo from Eley and Lapua can justify their increase in costs, as they seem to be at the top of the list in the accuracy department.

We will have to see if this pattern continues with other, hunting style rifles.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
26 April 2010, 20:28
LE270
I notice that your Bleiker rifle has what looks like a harmonic adjustment device at its muzzle (similar to the Boss device on some Browning rifles).

This gives rise to a number of questions:

1) Did you install this, or did the rifle come with it already installed? If you installed it, why did you do so?

2) Have you tried adjusting this device to see whether different settings will improve (or degrade) the accuracy with a given batch of ammo?

3) If you did not adjust this, then what setting did you choose for it and how did you arrive at that choice?

Again, I thank you for all this testing. You are doing the world of shooting a tremendous service, for which you deserve immense thanks and praise.
________________


"How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?"
26 April 2010, 20:57
Saeed
The rifle did not have this tuner on it originally.

A little while ao, a friend was playing around with it, trying to see how it might improve his groups.

Frankly, I would have preferred using teh rifle without it.

But, I am afraid I only noticed this fact after shooting quite a few groups.

We are debating doing the test again, without this tuner.

This, however, might have to wait until we have tried other rifles.

Also, I have been getting questions on why we have not tried some of the ultra velocity 22 ammo, like the CCI Stinger.

I actually tried using it in the Bleiker, but found it extremely difficult to chamber, due to the tight match chamber.

We will try whatever we can get hold of in the hunting rifles.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000