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IT IS JUNE 6TH. D-DAY Login/Join 
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On this day 77 years ago, a whole bunch of men, braver than I, landed on heavily defended beaches in Northern Europe. Many died. They died to defeat Fascism.......Wonder what they would think now. Probably doesn't matter. What matters is that we take a few minutes to remember their bravery and sacrifice.
Peter


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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tu2 tu2 tu2
 
Posts: 18528 | Registered: 04 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Never forget.


~Ann





 
Posts: 19148 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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So many brave men died that day.

So many gave their lives that we may live free.

We must always remember, and always protect, and never surrender, what they made possible.


Mike

Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
 
Posts: 13378 | Location: New England | Registered: 06 June 2003Reply With Quote
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tu2 tu2 Oh + BTW, I read a few years ago that the French wanted the U.S. to pay financial reparations for beach damage at Normandy. Considering how crazy that sounds + considering that they are French, I'm inclined to believe it. Mad


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Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Locally there was a smattering of Memorial Day events, but for D Day not a word. The world has changed in many ways: I haven't.
Never forget those who were sacrificed for us who are here today.
 
Posts: 1067 | Location: Mentone, Alabama | Registered: 16 May 2005Reply With Quote
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YES SIR! Well said.


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Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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The French haven't forgotten. You may not have seen this French made documentary, which I find very good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pD5Nkd8mkw


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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I'm sorry Wink, but I do NOT believe that the French have come to grips with their past, unlike the Germans.
In particular:
The Jean Bart opening fire with it's 16" guns on the Allied Fleet in Operation Torch.
The Vichy French opening fire on Allied forces when they landed in North Africa. Eisenhower had issued orders that the Allied forces would not fire unless fired upon so there was NO bombardment. Hundreds of Allied soldiers died on the beaches.
The Milice! How many French resistance fighters did those bastards torture and murder?
The transportation of 80,000 Jews from VICHY held territory to Nazi concentration camps.
I could, but won't, go on and on.
The French have NOT come to terms with these episodes in their history.
Yes, their military did fight as well as they could against the Nazi attack, but that is not the same as what followed the French surrender. And, there are still French who are upset about Mers El Kebir!
How about this:
the Allies also succeeded in slipping French General Henri Giraud out of Vichy France on HMS Seraph—passing itself off as an American submarine[21]—to Gibraltar, where Eisenhower had his headquarters, intending to offer him the post of commander in chief of French forces in North Africa after the invasion. However, Giraud would take no position lower than commander in chief of all the invading forces, a job already given to Eisenhower.[22] When he was refused, he decided to remain "a spectator in this affair".[23]
Or this:
The Naval Battle of Casablanca resulted from a sortie of French cruisers, destroyers, and submarines opposing the landings.
The whole existence of the Vichy gvernment seems to have been denied as being illegitimate. French resistance fighters died at the hands of French militia and NO ONE has been held accountable. Is it taught in schools? I doubt it!
And, while the Allies were invading Normandy, the French Charlemagne division was fighting the Russians under the flag of the Waffen SS!
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Thanks, Peter, it's always refreshing to find others adept in their history; something that is all too rare these days.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Peter, the French have come to grips with their past. Unless your definition of "coming to grips" has a meaning that could be expanded. I am fully aware that the Vichy French forces in Algeria fired upon the British and Americans, and the invading force commanders fully recognised that would happen. They did hope it wouldn't, but they didn't stake their lives on it. My father landed at Oran with the 1st Infantry Division.

If you think the French today are not aware of the positions that were taken after surrendering to the German army, the split among their officer corps into Free French and Vichy French, then you are mistaken. Most of the ignorance would be with Americans who are "shocked" to learn that French forces fired on Americans during the Algeria landings. I'm curious of course, what would coming to grips with what is well known history look like?


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Speaking of coming to grips with history, allied bombing killed approximately 20,000 French civilians in Normandy prior to D-Day. Attend a D-Day commemoration ceremony in Normandy and judge the feelings of the locals about that yourself. If you still feel they need to come to grips with it after speaking with them, after seeing how they care for the cemetery at Omaha Beach, after seeing the respect they give to veterans, at a level that has faded from present day America, you might end up adding a little nuance to your point of view. If one has reached a conclusion, it is sometimes a sign that one has stopped thinking.


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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https://www.16thinfantry.com/u...the-landing-at-oran/


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Wink, I was not going to respond to your post, but seeing as you added to it, I will.
Coming to grips means more than taking goood care of cemeteries and saying "thank you for your service".
Yes, Americans were "shocked" that the French fired on them. They (foolishly I guess) thought they were helping the French! However, your link refers to "the pro Nazi Vichy forces in the French colonies".
As to:
"the invading force commanders fully recognised that would happen. They did hope it wouldn't, but they didn't stake their lives on it."
They DID stake their lives on it by not bombarding the landing zones with naval gunfire and air support!
In any case, I honestly don't care what the French do. They can continue to tell their chldren and grandchildren how "they were a nation of resistors" during the German occupation.
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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Coming to grips means more than taking care of cemeteries. OK, what more? Do you know that most of the young French in the Charlemagne division were from Alsace Lorraine and their parents lived in a zone that was part of Germany for more than 40 years? That more of them spoke German than French? That a great number of the French resistance fighters were members of the communist party, controlled by Moscow, who were pro-Nazi until Germany attacked the Soviet Union and Moscow told them to be become anti-Nazi? That the Vichy government, including the military officers that obeyed their officer corps, were sworn to neutrality and defense of France in order to maintain Southern France and North Africa without Nazi occupation? That the British attacked and sunk the French fleet with no warning but after France had declared neutrality? That three days after surrendering to the Americans in Algeria they fought alongside the American troops in Tunisia? It is OK to not consider any of this if the object is to ask that they come to grips, without saying what that is. Did the French try, for treason, Maréchal Petain after the war? What was the verdict? You’re knowledge of French history is partial and obviously incomplete when it comes to the issues that bother you.


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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Here are some notes for your pursuit of French history:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-Prussian_War


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AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Rambouillet, France | Registered: 25 June 2004Reply With Quote
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