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Large back up revolver saves bear hunter and female guide.
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posted
After a rifle malfunction hunter uses 454 revolver to stop bear.

Full story and picture at link.

https://www.spokesman.com/stor...-idaho-hunters-in-a/

They ducked behind one of the boulders and Schneider pulled out his revolver, which held five .454 Casull rounds. He had five more rounds on his hip. Schneider, trying to stay crouched behind the rock, waited until the bear got closer.

He fired, aiming for the animal’s face, but crouched as he was, he missed. He had four bullets left.

He stood up. Took aim.

“OK, I have four more shots,” he said. “I have to make it count here.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Lessons to be learned. To me, 470 yards on game, especially dangerous game, is just too far and I used to shoot competitively. Wounded beasties run really fast when they are pissed off. Use a well used and familiar rifle that does not jam and learn how to clear a jam. Hunt with a guide that carries a rifle.

But that said, I love my .454, except it practically needs wheels, the damn thing is so big and heavy. Glad he had it though.
 
Posts: 9954 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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i don't usually comment with distaste but this makes me wish the bear would have won. a combination of some guy shooting a big bear at that distande should have his rifle camera and 454 shoved up his azz
 
Posts: 13439 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I also thought the story was horrendous, a play by play of what I wouldn't do.
 
Posts: 9022 | Location: Dillingham Alaska | Registered: 10 April 2006Reply With Quote
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Another long range fuck-up.


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Posts: 12842 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
i don't usually comment with distaste but this makes me wish the bear would have won. a combination of some guy shooting a big bear at that distande should have his rifle camera and 454 shoved up his azz


+1. Guy was a moron.
 
Posts: 3835 | Location: California | Registered: 01 January 2009Reply With Quote
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This fascination with long range shooting is a bit of a cancer on our sport. Simply put, there are few who are willing put in the time on the range to be proficient. And so many wanna be long rangers. The woman in question is a very experienced Alaska hunter. Why she facilitated this cluster fuck is puzzling. Many parts of the story do not ad up. Haven't seen much Devil's Club around King Salmon! Having walked around a bit in that country why in the world would one set off on what they reported as a 16 mile round trip?
Another thing and a bit of a tangent: Here is a resource that is fully subscribed/limited entry. Why is the government giving out filming permits for these types of commercial enterprises. I am assuming that "Stuck in the Rut" had the proper permits. You can look at their site and see they are "experienced" film producers, who seem to specialize in long range drama. I have seem "burn" hunting spots by showing too much background scenery. Just a bit over theses Utube heroes and their drama queen BS.
 
Posts: 1335 | Registered: 17 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Disgusting, simply disgusting.
 
Posts: 444 | Location: North Pole, Alaska | Registered: 28 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The woman is the wife of the pilot who dropped them off. He is a pilot for the National Park Service and drops off numerous "friends" .
This was on USFWS Refuge lands and I doubt there were any more filming permits obtained than any of his other hunts.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4187 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Permits have requirements most likely all change with a recent Supreme court ruling.

See court ruling.

https://nppa.org/news/federal-...ule-unconstitutional
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
The woman is the wife of the pilot who dropped them off. He is a pilot for the National Park Service and drops off numerous "friends" .


And sister to the hunter making the hunter his brother in law.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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And therein lies the start of this cluster...

I know a very few good long range shots. None of them take long range shots at game, hunting being different than long range shooting.

It’s a stunt saying “look at me, I’m better than you are.”

That woman should have a investigation into her guiding for that farce, and that guy should be shunned and shamed.

Brown bear at several hundred yards?

Hit multiple times with a .338 lapua and it still “charges” and needs to be killed with a .454?

Well, I can see why he didn’t get closer... he was carrying a whole sporting goods store with him.

I’m not saying it was illegal, but it certainly is the kind of hunt I want no connection with.
 
Posts: 10479 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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Certainly an employee of the Feds should know what the laws are. Exposing himself like this and risking a career speaks volumes.
 
Posts: 1335 | Registered: 17 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Far more bears are wounded at close range then far.

Every guide has stories about having to follow up wounded bears. Most were wounded at most would consider acceptable ranges.

Here are just few many many more out there.

Bear attacks hunter after being shot a very close range.

https://www.newsweek.com/black...ll%20News%20reported.

https://www.thehighroad.org/in...tacks-hunter.167704/

https://www.wideopenspaces.com...charge-alaska-video/


https://bringmethenews.com/new...st-central-minnesota

https://www.thehuntingnews.com...-wounded-black-bear/

One can still get killed by a dead bear shot a close range.

Bear rolled down the mountain and killed him.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
Far more bears are wounded at close range then far.



Good Lord. Talk about spinning a statement.

Yep, far more bears are wounded at close range "than" far simply because MORE BEARS are shot at close range "than" far. The resultant logic being that a certain percentage of game animals shot will be wounded as a matter of course, so if you shoot more at close range, you'll wound more at close range.

On a percentage basis, your statement holds no water at all.
 
Posts: 8483 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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The results are the same a wounded bear.

If the bear is recovered what is the difference.

There is none.

The bear does not care if it is wounded, killed at short range or long range.

I am sure all those perfect hunter here.

Killed all the game they ever shot DRT.

Never had them run a hundred plus yards never had to shoot one twice.

Todd and all the complainers what is a acceptable range to wound a bear.

What is a acceptable distance for a critter to run before it dies

Before you fire a finishing shot.

What is an acceptable number of rounds to fire.

What is an acceptable amount of time to kill a wounded bear.

Should be easy answers for all you perfect hunters out there.

What should happen to an hunter who exceeds those acceptable limits.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Well, my personal rule of thumb was to not shoot them at a range I wasn't very confident at making a running shot at. As a friend described it, brown bears seem to run on a 'low pressure' system in that you can poke holes in vital stuff and it can still take some time for those fatal shots to take effect.

The only time I shot more than 40 yards was on one at 150 yards that was bedded down. I was prone with a bipod on a knoll above it looking down and hit it 5 times quickly (because that's what the gun held). The bear never moved. In general though, too much can go wrong as the range increases.


DRSS

"If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of meat?"
 
Posts: 810 | Location: MT | Registered: 14 November 2004Reply With Quote
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p dog,

The point is that as the range increases so does the chance that variables like wind will effect your POI and therefore your chances of wounding. Mix in a little adrenaline and the possibility of wounding goes way up.

And I'm not a perfect hunter. I have missed, wounded and sadly I did loose a very big black bear once. It happens to us all if we hunt long enough.

One thing that struck me was that at 470 yards if those people had kept still that bear would not have had a clue where they were.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
 
Posts: 12842 | Location: LAS VEGAS, NV USA | Registered: 04 August 2002Reply With Quote
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I didn't say anything about being a perfect hunter or shot. Quite the contrary. I've wounded my share, just as any hunter who's done any amount of hunting has.

You might want to check your reading comprehension P Dog as well as your spelling abilities of common words.

I stated that when hunting game animals, it is a fact that a number of them will end up wounded. If the percentages were held constant, you would have MORE bears wounded from close shots due to the fact that more bears are shot at shorter ranges. In other words, if 5% of bears shot, regardless of range, are wounded, if you shoot 100 at short range and 20 at long range, you'll have 5 or 1 wounded bears respectively. More are shot at short range than long, therefore you end up with more bears wounded from short range shots ... ie, the claim you are making.

However, we all know, the likelihood of wounding at close range is less than at long range. The percentage of bears wounded at short range will be significantly smaller than the percentage wounded at long range. Therefore, your statement doesn't hold water beyond being an attempt to spin the facts.

Think of it this way. Your statement is like saying more bullseye's on targets are missed with pistols at 15 to 25 yards than at 100 yards or more. Yep. That's a true statement ... because more targets are shot at with pistols at 15 to 25 yards than are shot at with pistols at 100 yards or more. Just like more bears are shot at close range than at long.


2020
 
Posts: 8483 | Registered: 09 January 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
p dog,

The point is that as the range increases so does the chance that variables like wind will effect your POI and therefore your chances of wounding. Mix in a little adrenaline and the possibility of wounding goes way up.

And I'm not a perfect hunter. I have missed, wounded and sadly I did loose a very big black bear once. It happens to us all if we hunt long enough.

One thing that struck me was that at 470 yards if those people had kept still that bear would not have had a clue where they were.

Mark


I suspect the YouTube channel factored heavily into their decisions and if so is indefensible.

The description of the hunt was what not to do.
 
Posts: 9022 | Location: Dillingham Alaska | Registered: 10 April 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I didn't say anything about being a perfect hunter or shot. Quite the contrary. I've wounded my share, just as any hunter who's done any amount of hunting has.

You might want to check your reading comprehension P Dog as well as your spelling abilities of common words.

I stated that when hunting game animals, it is a fact that a number of them will end up wounded. If the percentages were held constant, you would have MORE bears wounded from close shots due to the fact that more bears are shot at shorter ranges. In other words, if 5% of bears shot, regardless of range, are wounded, if you shoot 100 at short range and 20 at long range, you'll have 5 or 1 wounded bears respectively. More are shot at short range than long, therefore you end up with more bears wounded from short range shots ... ie, the claim you are making.

However, we all know, the likelihood of wounding at close range is less than at long range. The percentage of bears wounded at short range will be significantly smaller than the percentage wounded at long range. Therefore, your statement doesn't hold water beyond being an attempt to spin the facts.

Think of it this way. Your statement is like saying more bullseye's on targets are missed with pistols at 15 to 25 yards than at 100 yards or more. Yep. That's a true statement ... because more targets are shot at with pistols at 15 to 25 yards than are shot at with pistols at 100 yards or more. Just like more bears are shot at close range than at long.


2020


I have been guiding bear hunters for 42 years and learned many years ago that the closer my clients were to bears, the less problems we had with wounded bears escaping.
I do my best to get them close enough that they can't miss. That reduces problems.


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4187 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
I do my best to get them close enough that they can't miss. That reduces problems.


Doesn't eliminate them does it.

A wounded bear is wounded bear no matter what range

Phil how many bears have you had to follow up that were shot at what you would call and acceptable range.

How long did you wait to follow them up.

How long did you leave the bear suffer.

If you waited longer then what it took the bear to die in the beginning story.

What is better.

I say that the bear that dies the fastest is the better.

Does not say how long it took for the bear in story to die/be killed. It would seem not really long.

A lot less then when one waits longer to track and kill another wounded bear.

The facts are the bear was legally hunted and killed.

The distance really doesn't matter.

Any more so then any other wounded bear that took the same amount of time to die.

Unless all you perfect hunters condemn every one who has wounded a bear and took just as long to die.
Some should be condemning them self's it would appear.

What's the point.

Stuff happens when you pull the trigger some times it works out really well DRT.

Some times the follow up becomes really messy and takes time.

Some times the wounded animal is not recovered.

Some times the hunter gets the chomp.

I find those refusing to say what is acceptable and what isn't.

Are not willing to back up their condemnation of the hunter in the story.

Except for the few who have never wounded animal and never took longer to kill it and recover it.

Should not be trying to tell others how to conduct their hunts.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The other fact that no ones sees to want to address is if the hunter hadn't had a back handgun of sufficient size.

Things would have turned out a whole lot different.

The bear could have not been recover, the two people could have been mauled and killed.

Both a lot worse then what happened.

But then those who do not believe in back handguns might have to eat a little crow.

Back up handguns are not there for when things go right. They are there for the times when every thing goes wrong.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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What I have not seen mentioned is what kind of rifle was it and how, exactly it malfunctioned?


DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.)
N.R.A (Life)
T.S.R.A (Life)
D.S.C.
 
Posts: 2247 | Location: Houston, TX. | Registered: 18 May 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
I do my best to get them close enough that they can't miss. That reduces problems.


Doesn't eliminate them does it.

A wounded bear is wounded bear no matter what range

Phil how many bears have you had to follow up that were shot at what you would call and acceptable range.

How long did you wait to follow them up.

How long did you leave the bear suffer.

If you waited longer then what it took the bear to die in the beginning story.

What is better.

I say that the bear that dies the fastest is the better.

Does not say how long it took for the bear in story to die/be killed. It would seem not really long.

A lot less then when one waits longer to track and kill another wounded bear.

The facts are the bear was legally hunted and killed.

The distance really doesn't matter.

Any more so then any other wounded bear that took the same amount of time to die.

Unless all you perfect hunters condemn every one who has wounded a bear and took just as long to die.
Some should be condemning them self's it would appear.

What's the point.

Stuff happens when you pull the trigger some times it works out really well DRT.

Some times the follow up becomes really messy and takes time.

Some times the wounded animal is not recovered.

Some times the hunter gets the chomp.

I find those refusing to say what is acceptable and what isn't.

Are not willing to back up their condemnation of the hunter in the story.

Except for the few who have never wounded animal and never took longer to kill it and recover it.

Should not be trying to tell others how to conduct their hunts.


Nothing eliminates errors ! But getting closer certainly improves the odds of a hunter hitting the target!


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4187 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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the long shot on any animal is not my thing but on a predator is nothing that we should talk about in hunting definition. again just my 2 cents.
and grizzly or brown bear the closer the better for shooting in the right spot.
 
Posts: 1721 | Location: Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada. | Registered: 21 May 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Nothing eliminates errors ! But getting closer certainly improves the odds of a hunter hitting the target!


Phil you will not get an argument from me about the above statement.

The hunter in the story fired 3 times and hit his target 3 times.

One lung, too high on the shoulder and neck missing the spine.

Falls under stuff happens.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by medved:
the long shot on any animal is not my thing but on a predator is nothing that we should talk about in hunting definition. again just my 2 cents.
and grizzly or brown bear the closer the better for shooting in the right spot.



What is close enough.


Been discussed on the forum many many times.

What is a long shot.

At one time a long shot was any thing over a 100 yards for me.

Depending on the conditions.

Many years later getting 1st round hits on PDogs at 300 yards became routine.

Getting 1st round hits at 400 really common.

500 yards more often then not.

600 rare

What is a "long shot" for some one is not a "long shot" for some one else.

Trying to set standards for someone else is a very slippery slope.

Know you limits and hunt and shoot within them.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by lee440:
What I have not seen mentioned is what kind of rifle was it and how, exactly it malfunctioned?


Bolt action in 338-RUM sounds like on the last round he jammed the fired case forward and some how mashed it into the action so it couldn't be removed.

Make and model unknown.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The 454 taurus preformed well.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Personally I think it is a amazing story and hunt.

A sister and brother go on a DIY hunt. Work really hard at it.

Shoot an amazing bear.

Where many have failed even with the help of a high priced outfitter/guide.

Far more satisfying IMHO then being lead around by someone else and told.

When, how and if to shoot.

A lot less expensive to boot.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
Originally posted by medved:
the long shot on any animal is not my thing but on a predator is nothing that we should talk about in hunting definition. again just my 2 cents.
and grizzly or brown bear the closer the better for shooting in the right spot.



What is close enough.


Been discussed on the forum many many times.

What is a long shot.

At one time a long shot was any thing over a 100 yards for me.

Depending on the conditions.

Many years later getting 1st round hits on PDogs at 300 yards became routine.

Getting 1st round hits at 400 really common.

500 yards more often then not.

600 rare

What is a "long shot" for some one is not a "long shot" for some one else.

Trying to set standards for someone else is a very slippery slope.

Know you limits and hunt and shoot within them.


never good to tell other what they have to do for sure but it seems they reached their limits this time ...
 
Posts: 1721 | Location: Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada. | Registered: 21 May 2006Reply With Quote
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Stunt shooting by publicity seekers, plain and simple.

Zero respect for the animal, sickening...
 
Posts: 102 | Registered: 02 September 2015Reply With Quote
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Except per the article, the sister was an experienced professional guide (and didn’t mention it was his sister)

So the guide didn’t do her job, either unless brother “insisted” on shooting it with the handgun.

Simply put, it makes me think her guiding credentials are questionable... and her brother is the kind of hunter I would tell to leave and never bother to come back if it was on my property.

Long range shooting is a skill. Many don’t have it. A few do. Of the guys I personally know who can shoot past 600 yards, only one has made a real long shot attempt- and that on Marco Polo sheep. He shoots game as close as he can, and told me anything with a more than quarter second time of flight is something you really shouldn’t do... he was not happy that he took the long shot at the sheep, even though it worked.

I don’t view control shooting quite the same as hunting, but still think even a prairie dog or coyote deserves a clean kill.
 
Posts: 10479 | Location: Minnesota USA | Registered: 15 June 2007Reply With Quote
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I see no mention other then by regulation that she was acting as his guide.

Two quotes from the article.

It was 8 p.m. on May 13 and Schneider and his sister Tana Grenda were on their fourth day hunting coastal brown bears on the southern side of the Alaskan peninsula.

Grenda lives in Alaska, so, per the hunting regulations, she was Schneider’s guide.

He only shot it with his handgun after his rifle jammed. He used his handgun to stop and finish the wounded bear off.

If should be easy to read an article and get the facts straight.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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PDS:

Do you even know the difference

between Then and Than??????????

IF not, you sure need to read up on it.

George


"Gun Control is NOT about Guns'
"It's about Control!!"
Join the NRA today!"

LM: NRA, DAV,

George L. Dwight
 
Posts: 5935 | Location: Pueblo, CO | Registered: 31 January 2006Reply With Quote
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I am always looking for volunteers to edit for me.

Would gladly send my comments to you so they would be perfect.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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This thread reminds me of the Ford versus Chevy arguments some of us engage into, where every person has an opinion on what and why to buy.

We all make mistakes, but it is a lot easier to see the mistakes others make instead of the mistakes "one" makes. As such one comes up with all kinds if criticism when referring to another. On the other side there are several good things about the experiences the hunter went through, and hopefully he already realized the mistakes he made.

In this case the most important thing is that the guy got his bear, and that he survived to tell the story. This is a happy ending!
---------------

There are recent stories about clients being shot and killed by guide assistants, about guides tracking injured bears and then being mauled when their rifles had jammed, and on and on. Should one criticize a guide assistant or anybody else when it is very possible that any of us can make a terrible "mistake" causing somebody else's life? Can any one of us understand how the person, who "supposedly" made such a mistake, is going through after the event took place?
 
Posts: 492 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 20 November 2013Reply With Quote
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Everything about the whole hunt and circumstances reeks,, why even air such a travesty?


I tend to use more than enough gun
 
Posts: 1407 | Location: lake iliamna alaska | Registered: 10 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crane:This fascination with long range shooting is a bit of a cancer on our sport. Simply put, there are few who are willing put in the time on the range to be proficient. . . .
The easy way to limit "long range target shooting at live targets" — to the detriment of a large segment of shooting sports manufacturers — is to prohibit the use of optical and electronic means of sighting. Forcing the use of adjustable aperture and/or standard open sighting systems causes shooting opportunities to be severely reduced in distance. Does it completely eliminate silly shooting range? No. It significantly improves the quality of sport hunting as it renders any successfully hunted game a trophy. For corroboration refer to bow and muzzleloading hunting. A potentially undocumented bonus (that is no longer undocumented) is that possibly mandatory hunter orange may be eased. Again, refer to bow and muzzleloading hunting.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it. Sam Levinson
 
Posts: 1496 | Location: Seeley Lake | Registered: 21 November 2007Reply With Quote
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