quote:

Better picture of my Springfield V16

double

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

now 1911 is keeping me awake and on Gunbroker!

I really like my Stainless SR1911 in 45acp there newer 10mm model would fit the ticket too.

But my stainless XD5.25 works well also.

Most likely the toughest of the lot is my Ruger P90 stainless.

I load 255gr SWC at just under 900fps that gives real good penetration.

I think buffalo bore has about the same bullet at over 900fps.
I would feel ok carrying any of them.

Would hard-cast ammo damage a Ruger Stainless SR1911 .45acp? By the way, I do like that pistol a lot. Mine is very accurate out of the box, so I haven't done anything to it other than shooting and cleaning.

quote:

Would hard-cast ammo damage a Ruger Stainless SR1911 .45acp? By the way, I do like that pistol a lot. Mine is very accurate out of the box, so I haven't done anything to it other than shooting and cleaning.

Don't know why a hard cast bullet would damage a 45acp any more then any other bullets.

The 45acp and cast bullets seem to made for each other low pressure low velocities.

I have shot thousands of them through my 45acp pistols and plan on shooting thousands more.

quote:

Would hard-cast ammo damage a Ruger Stainless SR1911 .45acp? By the way, I do like that pistol a lot. Mine is very accurate out of the box, so I haven't done anything to it other than shooting and cleaning.

No

I've messed around,casted and loaded 255gr rnfp in 45 auto. 930ish fps in my Ruger P345, 4" barrel. Fully supported chamber, strong gun. Works great, accurate. A 255gr .452 at 900-1000 is the original 45 Colt load that was designed to kill a horse. It should poke a hole in a bear. I'd say it probably has a few times....

Those so-called "back-up" Magnum revolvers are nothing but Boat-Anchors waiting to get dumped into the back-pack after about the first hour of hard-hiking on the trail or fishing off the river bank.

Nope, more and more AK folks - like pilots, hunters, fishers, guides, work crews, biologists, etc. - are carrying 10mm Glocks, loaded hot, when out & about in the brush and boonies.

quote:

Those so-called "back-up" Magnum revolvers are nothing but Boat-Anchors waiting to get dumped into the back-pack after about the first hour of hard-hiking on the trail or fishing off the river bank.

At 30.89 oz. empty and 39.71 loaded per Glocks web site.

There are several revolvers that well match or beat those weights.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Those so-called "back-up" Magnum revolvers are nothing but Boat-Anchors waiting to get dumped into the back-pack after about the first hour of hard-hiking on the trail or fishing off the river bank.

At 30.89 oz. empty and 39.71 loaded per Glocks web site.

There are several revolvers that will match or beat those weights.

Name three .44 mags or 454 Casull wheelguns that make that weight. Those are the large-frame magnum calibers so often cited for toting around the AK bush.

With the large-frame magnum revolvers, like the Ruger Alaskans, the only sure way to cut weight is to chop the barrel length to 3" or less, which has the consequence of severely diminishing velocity (fps) and thus on-target terminal energy (fpe), i.e., stopping power.

At least with the 4.6" G20, and better still the 6.2" G40, those barrel-lengths work to maximize the fps/fpe of a hot-loaded 10mm projectile, like a 220gn Hardcast slug @ 1250fps - plus, with either Glock, you're getting 15+1 on-board capacity and a quick reload, ... as against 5- or 6-rds in a slow-to-reload wheelie.

quote:

Named three .44 mags or 454 Casull wheelguns that make that weight. Those are the large-frame magnum calibers so often cited for toting around the AK bush

Theses all have 4 inch barrels.

W@W 329 PD, Taurus trackers
S@W 69 Taurus model 444

That's not including my Ti 41 mag

The many 357 mag light weight revolvers out there.

The 44s can all do better then the 10 mm velocity wise for any bullet weigh. Plus handle a lot heavier bullets if one wants.

A properly load 357 right in there with a 10mm.

And has been proven effective against bears.

One then falls back to ammo capacity. Each to his own

The glock 20 is a good pistol but in every day life any good hand gun with a bullet that give adequate penetration does just fine.

Here is a list of 37 pistol bear saves from 9mm on up if your more interested in the subject.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2...h-pistols-97_25.html

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Named three .44 mags or 454 Casull wheelguns that make that weight. Those are the large-frame magnum calibers so often cited for toting around the AK bush

Theses all have 4 inch barrels.

W@W 329 PD, Taurus trackers
S@W 69 Taurus model 444

That's not including my Ti 41 mag

The many 357 mag light weight revolvers out there.

The 44s can all do better then the 10 mm velocity wise for any bullet weigh. Plus handle a lot heavier bullets if one wants.

A properly load 357 right in there with a 10mm.

And has been proven effective against bears.

One then falls back to ammo capacity. Each to his own

The glock 20 is a good pistol but in every day life any good hand gun with a bullet that give adequate penetration does just fine.

Here is a list of 37 pistol bear saves from 9mm on up if your more interested in the subject.

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2...h-pistols-97_25.html

Thanks for the link; I've seen that report.

Now focus, dude, 'cause you're ducking the question. Name 3 large-frame .44 or 454 magnum revolvers that weigh less than a loaded G20. Cite you sources too.

The Tauras revolvers are well-known junk, limited to range-use only. Show me where they're actually popular in AK.

"Many light-weight .357 revolvers out there" doesn't answer the question.

Most of those are short-barrelled titanium .357 snubbies (again, 3" or less), intended for easy CCW or off-duty L.E. carry, and generate significantly less velocity with a smaller diameter bullet (.355") than the full-throttle 10mm out of the G20's 4.6" tube.

"The 44s can all do better then the 10mm velocity wise for any bullet weigh. Plus handle a lot heavier bullets if one wants."

This statement ducks the question (again) of comparative gun weight, and is also wrong on velocity. Heavier bullets than what the 10mm can pitch (typically 220gn or 230gn 10mm hardcasts) isn't in dispute. However, comparing chronographed velocities of the short (4" or less) .44s/.454s against the 4.6", 5", or 6.2" 10mms shows that the 10mm generates either equal or faster velocities in its max loadings, (not the watered-down ".40-level" crap loads).

Again, the big-bore Mega-Mag revolvers, which are always cited in these debates as the default weapon to carry in the AK bush if you can't tote a rifle, give up a lot of velocity and terminal energy out of short barrels. Fine if you still want to carry one up there, but you need to understand and admit that ballistic fact going in.

"A properly load 357 is right in there with a 10mm."

Only if it's got a 5" or longer barrel. A 2.5" SP-101? Fergettaboutit. Don't bother shooting at the charging Grizz with that gun; you'll just piss him off more. Save those .357 bullets for yourself.

Having done considerable testing with all the mentioned calibers and handguns I have found that with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths the 10mm and 357 produce virtually the same ballistics. And while the 10 mm has a larger diameter, the 357 has a greater SD and typically penetrates a tad bit better.

I wouldn't feel unarmed with either !
Both beat the 9mm, and I have proven it works.

quote:

Only if it's got a 5" or longer barrel. A 2.5" SP-101? Fergettaboutit. Don't bother shooting at the charging Grizz with that gun; you'll just piss him off more. Save those .357 bullets for yourself.All The Best ...

Didn't read the report very thoroughly did you.

Why does a handgun have to large frame.

Sitting the parameters I can make the case for any handgun or bullet combination I want.

The facts are any decent handgun shooting a decent bullet that give adequate penetration seems to work.

As long as one does not miss.

I am glad you like the glock 20 it is a good gun I have shot several of them plus 1911 style 10mms.

I own I think 6 glock handguns so what I own another 20 or so other types so what.

I feel adequately armed with what ever one I pick.

As far as muzzle velocity compare apples with apples Glock 29 with short barrel well not give you the same velocities as the longer barreled ones.

So what.

quote:

Don't bother shooting at the charging Grizz with that gun; you'll just piss him off more. Save those .357 bullets for yourself.

Whaaaa? Remind me not to stand next to you as you button your holster closed with that bear on the charge.
“Naaaa billy bob, this here 357 will just piss him off more. Best leave him just as pissed as he currently is! I’m gonna save one billet for mayself after that there bear chews on me ah spell. Close your eyes. What? No thanks I’ll keep my beer.”

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Having done considerable testing with all the mentioned calibers and handguns I have found that with equal bullet weights and barrel lengths the 10mm and 357 produce virtually the same ballistics. And while the 10 mm has a larger diameter, the 357 has a greater SD and typically penetrates a tad bit better.
I wouldn't feel unarmed with either !
Both beat the 9mm, and I have proven it works.

This is exactly what I figured. I've packed a few 357s over the years , I now pack a G20SF.
It's all about putting the bullet in the right spot.
I like the Glock because I get for myself a very shootable gun that keeps the extra weight down . And ease of transitioning from 4 legged large animals to 2 legged . Just swap a mag from 220 gr Buffalo Bore to a 180 gr hollow point load.

Think I'd take a stainless superblackhawk/bisley, with barrel same length as ejector rod housing shooting the hottest 240gn jacketed hollowpoint load that I could shoot accurately, express sights (for close dirty work), put it in a crossdraw that wouldn't interfere with my rifle or pack and live happy.

Easy care (stainless), powerfull (44 mag), packable (4 3/4"), fast (express sights and short barrel) and I'd put up with the weight.

The velocity drop at "defensive" distances wouldn't matter nearly as much as my ability to shoot it accurately.

I'd spend the time and money to practice drawing and shooting the gun and my "bear" load of choice at "incoming" distances and "outgoing" distances.

Given an adequate gun my ability to shoot it, fast and accurately, would be the most important factor.

quote:

Originally posted by twobobbwana:
Think I'd take a stainless superblackhawk/bisley, with barrel same length as ejector rod housing shooting the hottest 240gn jacketed hollowpoint load that I could shoot accurately, express sights (for close dirty work), put it in a crossdraw that wouldn't interfere with my rifle or pack and live happy.

Easy care (stainless), powerfull (44 mag), packable (4 3/4"), fast (express sights and short barrel) and I'd put up with the weight.

The velocity drop at "defensive" distances wouldn't matter nearly as much as my ability to shoot it accurately.

I'd spend the time and money to practice drawing and shooting the gun and my "bear" load of choice at "incoming" distances and "outgoing" distances.

Given an adequate gun my ability to shoot it, fast and accurately, would be the most important factor.

You may want to reconsider that for a large bodied Bear.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
* * *
* * *
I now pack a G20SF.
It's all about putting the bullet in the right spot.
I like the Glock because I get for myself a very shootable gun that keeps the extra weight down . And ease of transitioning from 4 legged large animals to 2 legged . Just swap a mag from 220 gr Buffalo Bore to a 180 gr hollow point load.

Totally agree, CTF. Well said.

The 10mm AUTO in a portable 15+1 platform beats 'em all.

quote:

Originally posted by twobobbwana:

* * * Much fantasy B.S. snipped.

Given an adequate gun my ability to shoot it, fast and accurately, would be the most important factor.

That ain't gonna happen trying to get a boat-anchor .44 Mag roscoe into action. You'll be a Grizzly's appetizer before the second shot.

Focus, dude ... This shit ain't rocket science, even in Aussie-land.

quote:

That ain't gonna happen trying to get a boat-anchor .44 Mag roscoe into action. You'll be a Grizzly's appetizer before the second shot.

I shoot my 7.5 inch red hawk for the revolver portion of my HR218 qualification.

I have no problem beating the time limits and maxing out the course score. First shots on target from holster under 1.5 seconds.

If you can't draw a 44 as fast as your Glock you need more practice and or a better holster.


Don't let ones own personal short comings cloud the effectiveness of others.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
* * *
* * *
I now pack a G20SF.
It's all about putting the bullet in the right spot.
I like the Glock because I get for myself a very shootable gun that keeps the extra weight down . And ease of transitioning from 4 legged large animals to 2 legged . Just swap a mag from 220 gr Buffalo Bore to a 180 gr hollow point load.

Totally agree, CTF. Well said.

The 10mm AUTO in a portable 15+1 platform beats 'em all.

Now I definitely didn't say that !
For me, in the situations I'm in currently the G20SF is my choice . However, there are very few bears where I currently live compared to when I lived on the coast. If I was back in southeast I most probably be packin my SRH in 480 Ruger . That is what I packed for 3 years and was completely satisfied with it. I've run off dozens of both brown and black bears when all I had on me was a handgun over a span of 35 years and not one time did I ever have to have a quick draw competition with a bear!
Now a guy or girl in a hurry that is used to how he or she packs a handgun for protection . And has done some practice getting it out. Can do so in a very short period of time. But the fact is that no one I know goes about their business looking like Bob Munden or Jerry Miculek just before the buzzer.
If a person thinks they are going to have an up close and personal with a bear in a short time, That's when they get their gun out.
If someone doesn't personally feel they can deal with a problem bear with a smaller handgun, or just plain prefers as big a handcannon as they can hit with. Then for them, that is the correct choice. I have a few friends that spent decades around dense brown bear populations that packed 3"-5" S&W 44 mags. At some point they had a situation that left them wanting something a lot bigger tho and as soon as they came out . They got themselves 4" barreled 500 Smith's. And learned how to hit well with them.
And that is what they were packin last I knew.
Those are just too much for me so I top out at the 480 or a 454.
But, for here and now, I strongly prefer the Glock.

quote:

Originally posted by twobobbwana:
Think I'd take a stainless superblackhawk/bisley, with barrel same length as ejector rod housing shooting the hottest 240gn jacketed hollowpoint load that I could shoot accurately, express sights (for close dirty work), put it in a crossdraw that wouldn't interfere with my rifle or pack and live happy.

Easy care (stainless), powerfull (44 mag), packable (4 3/4"), fast (express sights and short barrel) and I'd put up with the weight.

The velocity drop at "defensive" distances wouldn't matter nearly as much as my ability to shoot it accurately.

I'd spend the time and money to practice drawing and shooting the gun and my "bear" load of choice at "incoming" distances and "outgoing" distances.

Given an adequate gun my ability to shoot it, fast and accurately, would be the most important factor.

A long time ago Larry Kelly found out how ineffective the 44 mag with 240 gr bullets going as fast as he could get them going was on a large mad brown bear.
I've pulled 12 ga slugs out of a brown bear while skinning it . they hadn't penetrated 8 inches. And were shot from a distance of about 8 feet. The slugs hadn't even made it into the thoracic cavity.
Penetration is about the only thing a handgun bullet has going for it.
Perhaps on a small black bear . like 250 lbs a 240 gr hollow nose jacketed might work.
Some guys have reported very good results with the Mihec 640 style molds with the hollow nose pins in and the boolits cast fairly soft and velocities kept under 1000 fps. At least on bison.
Heavy hardcast at moderate velocity penetrate very well tho.
The other thing tho, if your packin a rifle, that is the tool to deal with a problem with.

I lot of people make the mistake of using bullets designed for defense against two legged predators.

Most the current hollow points are designed to penetrate some where between 12 and 18 inches.

I have some 180gr 40cal. JHPs the were shot into about a 400lb car hit black bear. That didn't penetrate enough to kill it.

I believe they were early federal medium velocity loads. They expanded well but failed to crack the spine in the neck.

They were given to me by a taxidermist friend of mine who was told the story by the deputy who shot the bear. He found the bullets when skinning it.

The deputy used a 12ga and slug to put it down after the pistol rounds failed.

After shooting several bears with my 41 and 44 mags. using hard cast bullets I can known they give adequate penetration.

A friend of mine shot a 250 pound bear with a 44 315 gr wfn hard cast at 1300fps head on center of the chest it exited out the left ham.

So chose the best bullet for the job on hand.

Ok boys I'll modify my choice of projectile.

A.J. Hydell, I see many guys pulling 4 3/4", 5 1/2" and sometimes 7 1/2" Superblackhawks/Blackhawks/Vaqueros in Western action, often out of crossdraws, If I weren't prepared to practice with my "back up" pistol then I shouldn't be carrying it. Can't say that I'd choose a SuperRedhawk or long Superblackhawk for duties such as a backup that's why I chose a 4 3/4" gun.

I'll take my "boat anchor" choice with a good trigger on it thanks........I've never been a Glock fan as I'm used to shooting a 1911 with a good trigger ............. or a three screw Blackhawk with a good trigger. Though I will admit I've never shot a Glock with an aftermarket trigger job.

quote:

Originally posted by twobobbwana:
Ok boys I'll modify my choice of projectile.

A.J. Hydell, I see many guys pulling 4 3/4", 5 1/2" and sometimes 7 1/2" Superblackhawks/Blackhawks/Vaqueros in Western action, often out of crossdraws, If I weren't prepared to practice with my "back up" pistol then I shouldn't be carrying it. Can't say that I'd choose a SuperRedhawk or long Superblackhawk for duties such as a backup that's why I chose a 4 3/4" gun.

I'll take my "boat anchor" choice with a good trigger on it thanks........I've never been a Glock fan as I'm used to shooting a 1911 with a good trigger ............. or a three screw Blackhawk with a good trigger. Though I will admit I've never shot a Glock with an aftermarket trigger job.

Dude, you're obviously in fantasy land, being way down under there in OZ.

How many Grizzly charges have you stopped in the Outback?

A.J. Hydell,

"Dude" there's a distinct lack of Grizzlys down here admittedly. And if they were "thick on the ground here" it would be illegal to shoot them with a pistol. I figured, that when you're talking about having to shoot a pistol defensively against a grizzly, you'd be doing it where the grizzly are..........not where they ain't !!!!!

"Fantasyland" obviously is a big place............as it obviously extends as far as Texas.

My pistol shooting background all involves drawing from a holster (Police and Services match, IPSC and Western action) but it also involves pistols including double action and single action revolvers, 1911 semi autos and hefty loaded 44s and 45s just for shits and giggles.........at ranges from 7metres to a couple of hundred meters. It involves the expenditure, usually accurately, of tens of thousands of rounds.........so this "ain't my first rodeo".

If you can't "haul the big iron" out of a holster and shoot it accurately..........keep practicing !!!!!!

One thing that I am curious about is those of you who insist on carrying a revolver with a 2 1/2 or 3" barrel. Did you ever actually chronograph the bullets that you are shooting? My guess is that you will find out that you are lighting up the area with a lot of powder being burned ahead of the muzzle. If you look at Buffalo Bore bullet boxes, you will see that they indicate a 7.5" barrel to get their advertised velocities. I would really like to hear from folks who have actually used their short barreled handgun in a DLP situation.
Years ago, my friend Ace had a business where he manufactured .44 Mag. ammunition using a 328gr. hard cast bullet, He called them "Bear Loads". He told me that he had heard from folks who used them for DLP. He sent them a box of bullets so that they could make more ammo. Apparently the stuff worked. I used a 7.5" Redhawk for staged "Jungle walks" put on by Jerry Jacques" in the Talkeetna area. I carried it and later on a S&W 5" Classic on meat packing trips. Luckily, I never had to see for myself if it worked. I used an "Assault Systems" cross chest rig.
So, those of you who actually have used a handgun on "Mister Fuzzmonster"; what have your actual experience been and what did you use?

quote:

One thing that I am curious about is those of you who insist on carrying a revolver with a 2 1/2 or 3" barrel. Did you ever actually chronograph the bullets that you are shooting?

There are many studies out there on velocity loss out of short barrels.

Just search you tube and you well find them and the testing for almost every caliber and or bullet type.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

One thing that I am curious about is those of you who insist on carrying a revolver with a 2 1/2 or 3" barrel. Did you ever actually chronograph the bullets that you are shooting?

There are many studies out there on velocity loss out of short barrels.

Just search you tube and you well find them and the testing for almost every caliber and or bullet type.

I chrono'd my short bbl .44 and .454 Casull and while I don't have the velocities in front of me, I do recall not being disappointed.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Dude, you're obviously in fantasy land, being way down under there in OZ.

How many Grizzly charges have you stopped in the Outback?

The same amount as texas I believe

texas, texas, oh yea Alaska's Queer little sister somewhere in the Lower 48?

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Dude, you're obviously in fantasy land, being way down under there in OZ.

How many Grizzly charges have you stopped in the Outback?

The same amount as texas I believe

texas, texas, oh yea Alaska's Queer little sister somewhere in the Lower 48?

But if Texas did have grizzly bears, you can bet your ass they would be the biggest and meanest...everything is bigger in Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by tsturm:

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Dude, you're obviously in fantasy land, being way down under there in OZ.

How many Grizzly charges have you stopped in the Outback?

The same amount as texas I believe

texas, texas, oh yea Alaska's Queer little sister somewhere in the Lower 48?

quote:

Originally posted by cdparker:
One thing that I am curious about is those of you who insist on carrying a revolver with a 2 1/2 or 3" barrel. Did you ever actually chronograph the bullets that you are shooting? My guess is that you will find out that you are lighting up the area with a lot of powder being burned ahead of the muzzle. If you look at Buffalo Bore bullet boxes, you will see that they indicate a 7.5" barrel to get their advertised velocities. I would really like to hear from folks who have actually used their short barreled handgun in a DLP situation.
Years ago, my friend Ace had a business where he manufactured .44 Mag. ammunition using a 328gr. hard cast bullet, He called them "Bear Loads". He told me that he had heard from folks who used them for DLP. He sent them a box of bullets so that they could make more ammo. Apparently the stuff worked. I used a 7.5" Redhawk for staged "Jungle walks" put on by Jerry Jacques" in the Talkeetna area. I carried it and later on a S&W 5" Classic on meat packing trips. Luckily, I never had to see for myself if it worked. I used an "Assault Systems" cross chest rig.
So, those of you who actually have used a handgun on "Mister Fuzzmonster"; what have your actual experience been and what did you use?

For a handgun to be successful as a bear deterant it doesn't always need to be fired. I've backed down dozens of bears in up close aggressive encounters and have only had to shoot 1 bear with a handgun.
Most encounters , the bear is just trying to get something for nuthin. So when they figure out they aren't going to be getting what they want. They usually leave. A vertical underarm holster is a handy way to pack for me. It doesn't get in the way of wearing a backpack or packin a rifle over the shoulder slung.

The way I see it is that having a handgun gives you a level of confidence to stand your ground when backing out is not an option and retaining enough composure to look like a threat.
I know for a fact that has helped me many times over the past 40 years !

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The way I see it is that having a handgun gives you a level of confidence to stand your ground when backing out is not an option and retaining enough composure to look like a threat.
I know for a fact that has helped me many times over the past 40 years !

Or while you are backing out is important also.

A slow tactical retreat while knowing if the bear continues it's aggression you well be able to defend your self. Is valuable also.

Too easy to trip backing out p dog unless you have the composure to do it very slowly and carefully while being ready to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
Too easy to trip backing out p dog unless you have the composure to do it very slowly and carefully while being ready to shoot.

Every situations is one of a kind.

One should leave all options open.

agree on that

Well, I'm sure that p.o-ed Grizz really appreciates your demurring and sophisticated back-straddling. Some of you guys must be wearing your 'soft shoes' out there in the boonies.

Yep, said Grizz will likely write a nice letter of appreciation - for not shooting its ass - to the AK Fish/Game folks.

quote:

Yep, said Grizz will likely write a nice letter of appreciation - for not shooting its ass - to the AK Fish/Game folks

Please A.J. how many dead bears have you handled.

Or you well thank yourself for not having to skin the bear out pack the hide and head out.

Then worry about if Fish and game calls it a justifiable shoot.

I rather avoid the hassle. I rather spend the hours it takes to do such. Having fun then dealing with a bear I don't get to keep.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Yep, said Grizz will likely write a nice letter of appreciation - for not shooting its ass - to the AK Fish/Game folks

Please A.J. how many dead bears have you handled.

Or you well thank yourself for not having to skin the bear out pack the hide and head out.

Then worry about if Fish and game calls it a justifiable shoot.

I rather avoid the hassle. I rather spend the hours it takes to do such. Having fun then dealing with a bear I don't get to keep.

I may be reading him wrong, but if not, I whole heartedly agree with Pdog.

DLP'ing a bear here in AK is going to seriously screw up your outdoor adventure regardless the bear needing shooting or not. If you have to, well you have to and that's the way it is, but the fun is over Pard'.

Immediately after you shoot, you will likely discover the bear stinks of dead fish, rotten moose, its own poo poo or a babies dirty diaper. If you have lottery winning luck the DLP'd bear will have just spent the last week laying on a dead marine mammal feeding and cuddling the carcass with great joy.

Next you'll find you aren't prepared to skin and decapitate the dang thing. Are you dressed in proper butchering attire? Are you ready to throw away your expensive Simms waders because you'll never get the bear stink off them? A fillet knife for skinning! good for you! A Leatherman for decapitating! Right on. No pack frame to haul the skin and head so you wrap it around your shoulders for the hike out. Cool.

So here you are back at camp or the rv with the skin and head, its 75 degrees in the mid day sun and your prize is now fermenting in the heat. Sorry, you don't get to continue camping and fishing, you get to deliver the hairy, stinking mess to the Fish and Game and discuss the pro's and con's of your decision to shoot. They will decide, not you whether or not you get to be ticketed and fined or not.

If you have to shoot, well you just do and that it, but I've found you usually don't have to.

"Wearing soft shoes," you bet I am. If I'm out to fish, I fish and have no interest in bear contending. If I'm out to duck or moose hunt the same. A dead moose of any size is all I need to wrestle with, bears not needed. When I bear hunt I just hunt for a bear and kill it if I can. No silly back up pistol, no foolish bravado, just me and a rifle and some wilderness. Oh yeah, soft shoes too, flip flops for around camp. I tire of the waders after being in 'em all day.