The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting Alaska Hunting Forum .44 Magnum vs .454 Casull vs. 10mm Glock 20Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
KK Alaska, would you mind informing me of your load and velocity in that 10mm Glock? velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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That's one of three reasons that I prefer a .41 mag. Two others; the .41 is better suited to the N-frame than a .44, also the .41 mag, at least at the time that I bought mine was more accurate. S&W has changed the throating of their .44 mag. model 29's so accuracy of the revolvers is probably dependent more on the individual revolver and ammunition. If the outdoorsman doesn't want to chase his brass the .41 mag. might just be the best choice for personal protection in bear country. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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Self induced malfunctions are one thing and mostly avoidable. I am talking pure mechanical malfunctions. Street cops are some of the worst gun people out there....
White Mountains Arizona | |||
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I much prefer a slim auto for backpacking and hunting carry than any revolver. Firepower isn't so much a consideration to me. If I'm carrying just for bear deterant then I don't care. I'd take a 9mm if it was what I owned. Basically a bear defense gun is to keep you from getting hurt. To turn a charge or stop it. It don't need to be a gun that has gobs of horsepower. I'm not trying to flatten the bear with one shot because it won't happen. From a charge the same shot with a 10mm will flatten just like your 44 will. Because is nervous system damage. I carry a 416 for bears and it don't flatten them. I don't expect my handgun to. So thus I carry what I own and is comfortable. As I say, when a bear is in front of you, whatever gun is in your hands just became a bear gun. | |||
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Good point. Penetration would be the key as it is always White Mountains Arizona | |||
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That load is not over pressure, take note what BBore says about his load, ''Our 357 mag. ammo adds more power than ever before to the 357 mag. This ammo is safe to shoot in ANY all steel 357 revolver - this includes J frames. This ammo is no harder on your gun than any other normal 357 ammo. Please don't phone us and ask if this ammo is safe in your gun. It is, providing your gun is in safe condition for use with any normal 357 ammo.'' go here and look at the power in the 3'' J frame. https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=100 Go here and see the pull downs of some 357 factory ammo. https://docs.google.com/spread...O2k/edit?pli=1#gid=7 | |||
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They were not ten rd mags, they were full size mags with just ten rounds in them. This is a post I posted on a different forum on the UW ammo in my guns, I have shot and chronoed the UW 180, 200 and 220gr in both the g20 SF and the gen4, they were all with the 800X powder. The 180gr TMJ, the stock SF had one nose down in the magazine jam in ten shots, fps was 1162, with the 6.6'' LW barrel and ten shots, no jams and 1364fps, with the gen 4 g20 fifteen shots no jams and 1270fps, with the g 30 and the g29 LW barrel no jams in ten shots and 1172fps, will get some more of this good stuff. The 200gr TMJ had three nose to left of chamber jams on the stock gen 4 in ten shots, ave fps was 1138fps, the stock SF had one nose to left of chamber in ten shots, fps 1146, with the 6.6''LW barrel, NO JAMS in 10 shots, fps 1221, with the g30 with the LW 4.6'' g29 barrel one nose down in the magazine jam, will not get this ammo any more, not enough power and jams. I did have a 22# RSA in the g30 and think the stock may have done better. With the UW 220gr cast in the SF G20 no jams and 1128fps and no smiles, gen4 g20 no jams, 1165fps and big smiles, not good, with the G30 with the LW g29 4.6'' barrel 1194fps with no jams and no smiles and super accurate, with the 6.6'' LW barrel 1230 fps no jams and no smiles. \ The LW barrels have been more reliable and more accurate than the stock barrels in both the g20 SF and the gen 4 and even in the G30 with the LW 4.6'' barrel. This is the pull downs for the 10mm, some of these loads did cause smiles in some guns, be careful, https://docs.google.com/spread...XM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=7 https://docs.google.com/spread...XM5cm9pZy16T0E#gid=6 | |||
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Phil, I hope you don't mind me copy and pasting some of your posts on other forums to back up how good the 357 is. Look what a 357 did to an elk with a good cast boolit. http://www.mountainmolds.com/p...shot+with+a+357#p388 I don't think it will bounce off a bears head either. | |||
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The pic with the clean skull shows a .44mag 629. Pretty sure the skull pics were just for illustration, not ones taken with .357mag loads... I have a Model 27 and the 200gr flat nose RCBS mold. Cast most bullets using straight wheelweight alloy. Also have .44mag S&W and .454Casull SRH. My SRH has a fine trigger and the 325gr Lyman goes about 345gr when cast from WW alloy. No reason to prove anything by carrying the lesser handguns. Superb penetration from my Casull handloads in seasoned slab of Cottonwood timber. I say carry the biggest bore handgun you can shoot well. The .480Ruger in SRH with 400gr bullet remains something I consider. | |||
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I like the 10mm Glock because I carry a 9mm Glock every day and shoot it exclusively. | |||
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Another good reason familiarity. | |||
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Which is the same reason I stick with S&W revolvers as I shoot a round butt K-22, M-65 357 and 624 44 Spcl and 629 44magnum Mtn gun Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil it is amazing how many new/younger shooters never have shot a revolver. I they are amaze when I shoot small groups fast double action. It is all about technique and practice. | |||
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I got on this thread as I was looking for info on 480. Seeing how I own a Glock 31 and a 480 I feel I should chime in. My Glock 31 has operated flawless for over 18 years. Only issues feeding we're the first day I shot it with many kinds of ammo and it didn't like alum cased ammo. I wouldn't be surprised if she would eat them now but I have never bought any again. I have had a small crack in one of the plastic pieces that ride on firing pin and fixed it before I had any malfunctions. Next one had blem line from injection molding exactly where last part split. What are the odds of that? Bad mold? Machining mark left over? Or purposely designed to fail at some point for some reason? Anyway. Keep in mind I'm a bigger guy ( little guys say it's more difficult for big guys to shoot powerful guns cause we don't yeild enough lol, I shoot 3" nitro mags one handed on pistol grip and the M99 standing using the left bipod as a gangster grip). Up here I'm northwest Montana a Glock 10mm is the go to gun but for me I have never felt that to be adequate for a giant pissed off Grizz. Santa almost got me a long slide 10mm but there was a great deal on a n.i.b. S.S. SBH Bisley in 480. I have almost 100 rounds through it using BB 410 grainers. I love it!!! I can rapid fire all 5 without changing my handgrip, cocking with left hand thumb. This is my go to dangerous game gun. I can't wait to reload it and try to find a fast 275 frain load for everything else and big meplat, heavy hard cast for everything else. My recommendation is shoot the largest caliber you can accurately and load heavy. | |||
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Sorry for confusing typo. 275 grainers if I want to hunt with it and 410grainers for dangerous game, would read much better. I will also say in big Bear territory I have usually carried 870 Express 18" barrel. Alternating buck and slug in magazine. My 480 is taking the place of this for most situations. | |||
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Lots of good info on handguns and bears at this link. https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...h-pistols-97_25.html Many more articles there also. | |||
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I have seen and heard of a lot of subcaliber pistols killing bears. Not sure if your putting that out there just for info or as a retort to carrying larger calibers. | |||
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Just for information. I am in the any gun is better then nothing crowd. But I normally carry a 44 or 41 when there is a good chance of shooting a bear before them it was a 357. They have worked well on the bears I have shot with pistols. I am sure my 460 S@W would do a fine job also. It is just to big and heavy for every day carry. I carry a .40 .45 .41 or a 357 for daily use. Not that unusual for me to change pistol and or calibers during the day. I wouldn't be afraid of using any on one of them on the black bears that live close by. When back packing or fishing in grizzly county it is my Ti 41 most of the time as it is the lightest. | |||
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I have had 44 Magnums(sold them all) I still have a 45 colt,357 Mag. and numerous other pistols. My two favorite Wood defense Pistols are a Glock 27 and a Glock 20 using Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm Ammo 200 gr. F.M.J. I recently put a Fast Fire three on the 20.  Glock 20 Open Sights!!! 25 yards  | |||
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I have a 6.5 inch 500. The reason is for 30 years I carried a 6.5 inch 29 as my field gun. So, the change over is easy. Also, I can tell you, if you load Barnes 325 grain X bullets to 1900fps, the recoil is less than a 454 with a max load 250 grainer or a 300 grain xtp out of a 4 inch 29. thus, easier to control and fire again if needed and hit something. | |||
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Dude, great necro-thread revival ... These subjects never really die.  But Santa should've got you that long-slide 10mm Glock 40 MOS. Pumped-up velocity x 15 rounds of hot-loaded 220gn hardcast slugs. Run it iron-sights or mini-RDS optic. All you need; nuthin' you don't. Ask real Alaskans who carry Glock 10mms, like Chuke. Would've been a solid choice for the boonies anywhere - Montana or AK. Instead, you got a slow-to-fire - and even slower-to-reload - 5-shot, single-action boat-anchor.  Major fugly right there.  Not sayin' the .480 SBH Bisley won't make a fun range toy for turning bowling pins into splinters at the local club. I mean, just the size of the thing will attract the resident gawkers and droolers. Like watching the Fat Lady sing. But that's where the mega-magnum boat-anchors shine best - on the range, not out on the trails. All The Best ... | |||
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Nice resurrection. That said I still love my Glock, got 2 model 29s and never shoot my 454. Carry on White Mountains Arizona | |||
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Uh, I'm a " real Alaskan," don't try to convince anyone of this via YouTube and don't carry a 10mm nor do I intend to. The more you write about him/ her/ it the more the both of you seem to be a bit fake. | |||
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I have a couple of 10mm's, and I like the cartridge. I have other preferences for carrying when bears are out and about. Such as double action or single action 475, 480, 454, 45 Colt, or 44 mag. If I presently had one, I would add the 41 magnum to those preferences. The 480 Ruger Bisley with 4-5/8" barrel is at the top of my list. The 10mm would be at the bottom of my list. As they say, sometimes anything will work and sometimes nothing will work. | |||
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If you have any incidents that a handgun has failed in a self-defense situation. I would like to hear about them. | |||
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Dude, seriously? Don't be a backwoods boufo. Allow Chuke to edumacate you on his hot new 10mm Springfield Armory XDM with 5.5" barrel. Will this new Springer overtake Chuke's tried-n-true 10mm Glock as his 'bush pistol' for Grizz protection while out in the AK wilds??? Who knows? But that's why your wuddle trigger finger needs to hit the 'Subscribe' button and find out. I mean, think about it. You and the Chuke dude could be neighbors.  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYDIjVSdWM&t=179s All The Best ... | |||
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I do not, and that was not intended as a handgun specific comment. But, to the point of "sometimes anything working", bears have been killed with knives. Not my primary choice of defense, but you use what you have and can get to it. And to "sometimes nothing will work", if circumstances are and certainly can be, that the bear is literally on you before you realize it. It does not much matter what you are (or were) carrying if you cannot get to it or retain it to use. I usually set up camp and hunt alone. Usually there is one or two grizzly/brown and black bear in the area. My preference of engagement would be with my rifle. I do carry one the revolvers mentioned in the prior post. It is on my body nearly every minute that I am awake. I do not carry what I consider "boat anchors". I carried a Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt for a continuous 28 days this season. My knife may be in my pack, but not my revolver. My revolver is like my electric fence. I don't know if it will work under all circumstances, with all bears. But, I do have it. | |||
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fucktard x 2 I knew better than to even look. didn't you get run off a drill site in Kenai for meth 4-5 yrs back?  | |||
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That's an awesome set-up! Nice group too. Congrats. All The Best ... | |||
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Turdstorm, did somebody not butter up your flapjacks enough this morning?  Not to worry, dear. Here's part-2 of the 5.5" 10mm XDM YouTube story - this time as tested against the 10mm Glock 40 longslide. This episode stars Chuke of course, and that Chuck dude from 'Alaskan Ballistics.' Two real Alaskans, with ample bush experience, testing real-world guns and ammo for the benefit of residents and visitors to what is perhaps America's last truly free state, ... or at least second only to Texas. Enjoy and learn ... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0DIKU70xel0&t=3s All The Best ... | |||
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We Backwoods Alaskans are quite fortunate to be introduced to all these reality handgunning/bear experts by Such knowledgeable bear experts from Texas and other bear infested areas of the lower 48. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil, you're killing me!  On my one visit to Alaska, fly-fishing a Stikine tributary out of Wrangell, I showed our guide's father-in-law, a Tlingit elder, my "griz medicine" -- a stainless Ruger Redhawk loaded with my handloaded 325-grain flat-nose, hard-cast bullets over a case stuffed with H-110. Gosh I was proud of it. I asked him what he thought of it. He said "Let me see that." I handed it to him and he hefted it and returned it to me with one of those Native American smiles and said, "After you have shot the bear six times, it is heavy enough that it might do some good if you throw it at him." Then he started laughing -- probably at the crestfallen look on my face. Among Wrangell folks it seems the best bear defense system was a 12-gauge pump, buck and slug alternating -- and a dog to give the warning. After seeing those five-foot diameter bear tunnels emerging from the walls of thick brush crowding within six or seven feet of the stream I was fishing, I decided that .44 Magnum was just a smidge better than nothing at all -- by a very small margin. This observation is reinforced when one fishes the same hole and sees dinner-plate sized griz tracks still filling with water -- and mountains of salmon poop and parts -- on top of one's dainty footprints from the day before. I'm preaching to the choir here ...  There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Must not know many natives. they have some of the worse firearm knowledge around. He just quoting another old wife's tale. Here Bill if you haven't read it yet. https://gunwatch.blogspot.com/...h-pistols-97_25.html | |||
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P Dog, his son-in-law, the guide -- and not a native -- fully concurred with his father-in-law after spending many years guiding in and around the Wrangell area where mere black bears in town are considered a nuisance. When he dropped us off at our Forest Service cabin on Andrew Creek, he left an old Mossberg 500 loaded as described for our protection. I know nothing about the outfit that complied that list but will note that one of the first cases cited is that of our very own Phil Shoemaker -- 458 Win -- who famously was forced to kill a bear with his 9mm. Ask him what he thinks. He did not develop his opinions based on Internet lists. P.S. Of course I don't know many Tlingits. I am from the Lower 48. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Come on Bill, you know real life been there & done that will never stand up to all that interweb experience!   | |||
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If you can quote a YouTube or a gunwatch.blogspaw.blah.blah you must be an authority.  I have heard of the .44 being used for bear defense around here and it did work quite well. | |||
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So I still stand by my post. Scott I heard lots of stories of handguns not working also. But proving those stories to be true has been elusive. I would be very interesting in factual stories of handgun failure. | |||
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I think operator failure far outweighs any firearm / cartridge failure   Good luck all! | |||
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Operator failure would be a huge issue for most of us -- and the reason a 12 -gauge riot gun makes the most sense --at least along brushy streams, in my very limited experience. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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AJ seems to be what’s commonly known as a troll. If he has any real knowledge it is obscured by his BS and vitriol. Posting on this way on this topic in this forum with these members shows this very clearly. So; as you were gentlemen. A cool hand and a bullet that reaches the cns with stopping force is the only clear mandate. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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