The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Custom Built Rifles Has the Jerry Fisher style of stock fallen out of favor?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Who else is holding their breath for the OP to propose the definitive of The Jerry Fisher Style? | |||
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If one has to ask, new guy... | |||
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At the same time, I like high combs because I am long with high cheekbones. At the same time, I like some drop at the heel. This means I like Monte Carlo combs. This is true for everything but prone shooting where I like no drop at the heel. By the way, I can miss running coyotes with any rifle, regardless of stock design! Regards, Bill | |||
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Sure gunmaker, That might be true of some shooters but that's a pretty big blanket-statement to throw around and in no way describes me. No doubt that you know how to make a gun that meets with your needs and wants but is stock design more of a "one size fits all" or is there any room in your world for what someone else likes? Can't a stock be a little higher in the comb, to accommodate a scope, and still retain classic lines or is it "copious drop at the heal or nothing"? Asking for a friend. haha Zeke | |||
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I build most all my stocks so the nose of the comb just clears the cocking piece. How much higher can you go? The drop at heel depends on what type of sighting. Shooting a straight comb stock is kind of like trying to shoot an AR flattop with low rings. Trying to squeeze your cheek bones on the comb while canting your head sideways with only the toe of the stock on your shoulder. There's better ways to design a stock. Many "modern" designs have been pushed where they are by gunwriters. And I'm not talking writers like Turpin and Carmichel who have actually stocked several rifles. Don't forget some cast in the design. Only problem there is you can't pull a right and left stock out of the same mold. I don't have anything against people spending time shooting off the bags at the bench or over the hood (where legal). Stalking rifle designs with their slim forends and open grips are not as easy to shoot tiny groups with. But they are more delightful to carry all day. I would guess there are many more shooters today than hunters influencing stock design. ESPECIALLY in the synthetic world. Not a bad thing, just a thing. Jerry built stalking rifles. If you spend all day in an elevated blind, his style might not be for you. | |||
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The beauty of commissioning a custom rifle is when it's your money, spend it on what you want. Not where somebody on a forum or in a magazine tells you to. | |||
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If one is a real gun nut, nothing is more fun than ordering a custom gum from a gun maker. You agonize over minutiae. 20 years ago, I had Larry Brace (a gentleman’s gentleman) make a rifle for me. He had what I think was a “try stock”, a stock that made perfect dimensions for the individual. It covered length of pull, cast off and drop at comb and heel. I made the error of adjusting the stock while standing. Wasn’t Larry’s fault but mine. If I had thought about it, I would have recognized that virtually all my shooting was off sticks. The first season I used the rifle a group of bull elk streamed off this large hill in front of me, crossed the draw in the bottom and were climbing up the hill that I was sitting on and to my right. I’m a right handed shooter. I was sitting on a steep hillside. The wrestling around that I did in the snow, trying to get on the sticks and behind the scope with a 14 1/2 pull was not fun. I somehow managed to get an elk, but far from the largest. My point is that I stock that fits in one position doesn’t fit in another | |||
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Another thing I’ve found is that I like the aesthetic appeal of a stock with little drop at the heel, but when I mount the rifle, the top of the butt sticks two inches above my shoulder pocket. I guess the answer is a Monte Carlo stock. | |||
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Oscar from GRS has said it and I agree that when you point at something your hand turns slightly with your thumb and middle finger kind of on the same plane. This is the way GRS stocks are designed. With a palm off set turned the same way your hand turns. When you shoot an open wristed classic stock your hand twist. For me this is uncomfortable. More importantly it is a weaker grip on the stock. In a bigger caliber to me it is brutal. If you look at vertical grip stocks like the McMillan and Manners tactical stocks, the old Harry Lawson designs, and some of the 1960's California stocks they have similar geomtry. I am a shooter and a hunter, a stock that drops shootability for me isn't much of a stock. Even if I have to carry another pound or two. | |||
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Interesting. Can you provide the physiologic and biomechanical support for this information. I would like to see the research on this theory. Or a link to GRS research would be useful. Thanks. | |||
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With an open grip it kinks the top of my wrist down. In a more closed grip stock my wrist remains straight. This gives me a better grip. | |||
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Bluefish, your observation seem logical, yet why are the great English shotguns made with no grip or a open grip? | |||
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Excellent reply Mr Gunmaker. Thanks for the banter. Zeke | |||
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That is what I believe. One day, several years ago, I was visiting with Martin Hagn and we were discussing stocks. Martin makes straight, open gripped stock and they are beautiful stocks. However, he confessed to liking Monte Carlo stocks because they fit well. He also wondered about the shape of the butt and said he felt stocks were the way they were for the sake of appearance. Nonetheless, he makes stocks the way people expect him to make them. When I make stocks for my own silhouette rifles, I am free to do whatever I want, within the constraints of the rules. I can twist the grip a little, I can kick the toe out a little, I can have 7 inches of drop at the toe. When everything is just right, I shoot just as badly as ever but feel really comfortable doing it! A hunting stock is much the same but without the freestyle component. I try to stay within accepted styling for these but I do like Monte Carlo combs. By the way, I'm not a stockmaker like the real stockmakers. I'm just a gunsmith who makes the occasional stock. Regards, Bill | |||
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THE ERGONOMICS Ergonomics deals with the application of physiological principles to the engineering and design of a product. In GRS, we looked at the human act of shooting in different positions and started from that fundamental point to develop our stocks in ways that would accommodate human physiology. When you lay your shooting arm on a flat surface, you will notice that your hand will be naturally angled - we used that 6º angle as starting point to develop the shape and angle of our GRS grip. Posted from the GRS site. Not really sure what this has to do with shooting from field positions or which 'angle, they are talking about. Sorry but not relevent to JF stock design- he built hunting rifles. Finding a flat surface in the field- good luck with that. | |||
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I appreciate Jerry Fishers stocks, true American classic, and thats a nice design.. However I like English/German cross, I like low combs and use both irons and scope with them without a problem..Guess I was blessed with the old mod 70s with low combs and later came Bill Weaver and the 2.5X and we all got one free, and we never knew better, still killed game and that has never changed..The human body can adjust to about any style of stock if he will just shoot and hunt with it!!  some don't know that!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Custom Built Rifles Has the Jerry Fisher style of stock fallen out of favor?
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