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Mannlicher stock help
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Im attempting to put together my fist mannlicher stocked rifle on a Brno 21. I have the templet stock about 80% complete but I ma struggling with the look of the forend. I have read some places that the forend should have a slightly convex shape to flow better, Is there a certain place to put the peak if this convex ( half the barrel length?) or a depth in relation to the straight lines of the stock? Maybe its one of those things where you just have to use trial and error to find it ....
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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I think you mean concave; convex would give it a belly. I could post a picture but others could probably explain it better.
 
Posts: 1122 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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I guess it depends on where its based from, I was thinks concave to the bottom line of the stock or a slight "dip" from the bottom line.
Im not looking for a slight belly, I already have one of those Smiler
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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If you can pull it up somehow; several years ago in the Outdoor Life Book Club, I bought a copy of Jim Carmichael's book, "Do it yourself gunsmithing." Just a wealth of info + pics. He devotes a chapter on what you are doing + requesting, with lots of step by step photos. If not online I'll bet Amazon might have a copy. It is a great book + full of ideas. I actually used his design on shooting benches to do mine out of concrete. If you can find it, buy it, you'll be glad you did.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Jim Carmichael's book, "Do it yourself gunsmithing."

Excellent book.


Craftsman
 
Posts: 1530 | Location: North Texas | Registered: 11 February 2001Reply With Quote
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I've made them; you just look at an original MS, and also look at a modern one like a Ruger, and you will quickly see where the transition is. Biggest mistake is leaving to much wood on the forend. Also, you will not that originals have a lot of drop at the heel, which looks better too. Third thing, do not make the barrel too long; 18 inches is long enough. Maybe 19. Long barreled Mannlichers are, wrong.
Just look at one and it is obvious. Then remove everything that doesn't look like that.
That thing they call a belly is the magazine on a MS. Like this:
 
Posts: 17035 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Thanks Guys, looking for Carmichale's book
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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I found my book; hiding in plain sight. Chapter 14.
He does a poor job at a Mannlicher; barrel way too long, grip too sharp, negative comb drop, (falls from heel to comb) contrasting wood fore end cap. And some king of funny hand stop carved into the fore end. I guess I'll post a picture of it. Anyway, don't copy his stock. Probably just me, but it's hideous.
Look at the other thread here on two Mannlichers; those are good examples of Modern design Mannlichers.
 
Posts: 17035 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Tom,

That stock looks like the builder could not make his mind up on what he wanted…. A European Mannlicher or a European Sporter.


Shoot Safe,
Mike

NRA Endowment Member
www.Marionroad.com
www.mausercentral.net
 
Posts: 934 | Location: Middle Georgia | Registered: 06 February 2011Reply With Quote
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The mid tern schnable was and is meant so that the eye is not offended by a too long of a barrel on a full lenfth stock.

I say it does exacly what it is supposed to do.
 
Posts: 3433 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Anyway, don't copy his stock. Probably just me, but it's hideous.


"Hideous" seems a bit harsh! Each to his own, but I think that has a certain classic style that is very appealing. And a good honest piece of walnut with just the right amount of figure in the butt.

I would take it any day over a 1970s disco rollover with flared forearm, skip line checkering, white line spacers, and shiny bowling pin finish.

Or tupperware, or birch, or laminate...

But I agree it needs more drop for the open sights.
 
Posts: 1138 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 07 September 2005Reply With Quote
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You get the idea. If you make a straight line from the guard front screw to the tip it looks excessively deep and cumbersome. This is about .250 deep max and makes it appear proportionally balanced.
 
Posts: 1122 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Thats what im talking about kda55. Thanks for the pic!
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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This is an original Brno Model 22F stock. You will need to shorten the barrel of you 21 in order to keep proportions correct.
 
Posts: 231 | Location: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: 24 January 2009Reply With Quote
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No picture shows.
Ok, maybe not hideous, but certainly not in the spirit of an original Mannlicher. Definitely ugly. The long barrel and funny comb offends me anyway. The schnabel takes the cake for offense of Otto and Ferdinand.
Just copy the original. There are no or few, straight lines on the underside.
 
Posts: 17035 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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I love my original Mannlichers. True classics, + as the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
...certainly not in the spirit of an original Mannlicher.

Just copy the original.


I think the problem may be in calling every full stocked rifle a Mannlicher, as it seems common to do. Because using the term "Mannlicher" evokes a certain style that goes beyond just the length of the stock. (like throwing a photo of an otherwise nice looking modern sporter stock into a discussion of classic Rigby stalking rifles...)

Probably better to just call something what it is, a full-stocked sporter?

Anyhow, think about that when you are looking at the photo: Lower the heel to comb to take out the (barely perceptible) negative drop, then lob off the front end right at the "false schnabel" mid-forarm and you'd have a pretty unobjectionable, normal looking, modern half-stocked sporter. At least I can't see any valid reason to think less of it aesthetically compared to any number of similar stocks...
 
Posts: 1138 | Location: Washington State | Registered: 07 September 2005Reply With Quote
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I built a number of custom stocks for the Brno mod 22s and 21s for that matter...I used an original stock as a pattern stock and its straight..I also lke the brass Key such as one finds on a muzzle loader with the manlichers..My favorite was a Brno switch barrel, 9.3x62 and a 7x57 with both barrels being original, the 9.3 was a rebored original 8x57 barrel, and low and behold both barrels fit perfect, that says something for Brno precision..All I have left is photographs, you can't keep custom brno somebody always want them more than you...

I find it acceptable to use a tapered stright line on the bottom if the foreend if its flat enough, but some just can;t handle the wood pile at their feet to get too large.Ive never had a problem with cutting wood off any stock even though I paid big bucks for it..No problem it makes great sawdust and wood chips. old


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41754 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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All the comment in the world will not create a pleasing and praical gun stock...Ya just gotta know how to take off eerything that looks like a POS.
 
Posts: 3433 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
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I appreciate all the commments, I think my templet has a lot of "POS"in it. Im gonna rasp and bondo on it some this weekend and maybe put up some pics for everyone to laugh at Smiler
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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I likes,em skinny, most folks think taking off all that wood they had to pay for is sinful, its not! tu2


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41754 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Atkinson....is right...A lot of wood way out there at the end of the barrel will not contribute to repeatable groups.

I like to "free float" the front half (no gaps!) just no influence or pressure and the metal tip attached to the wood (not the barrel)

Fore end wood and barrel free to expand and shrink independently
 
Posts: 3433 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
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I have gotten as far as I can get for the time being, still waiting on my end cap to come in. I will have to remove about another 3/8" of an inch from the tip. Gonna get pretty slender out there!

 
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That's good.
 
Posts: 17035 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Whats the dia of your barrel. I may have a cap if you cannot get one. Good job on the toe line-grip cap intersect- thats what they are supposed to look like.
 
Posts: 1122 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kda55:
Whats the dia of your barrel. I may have a cap if you cannot get one. Good job on the toe line-grip cap intersect- thats what they are supposed to look like.


.610, I have one on order from Brownells should be here this week I hope. The one I ordered has a .640 diameter opening hope it will work
 
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That's looking real good, are you planning on checkering it as well?


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I use the Ruger nose caps. And sling loops. Can't beat the design, and the price. You must have a sling loop; that is what sets up the fore end proportionally. Again, look at the original M-S. The sling loop is also a gauge for the size of the forearm at that location.
 
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Originally posted by NormanConquest:
That's looking real good, are you planning on checkering it as well?


This is just my pattern stock, I will have the finished stock checkered
 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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I'm working on a full length stock myself. I have the barrel touching at the tip and at the shank but free floated (underneath) for the rest. It is a 20" 35 Whelen on a Husqvarna action. I'll make the Mannlicher-style bolt handle today so I can cut the notch in the stock and start finishing. This is the only full length stock I have made and will likely be the only one I make! I'm a little torn on what to do for sling swivels. Regards, Bill.
 
Posts: 3482 | Location: Elko, B.C. Canada | Registered: 19 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I have one full length sporter I did. I love it, but will never tackle another!
And despite all the respect I have for DPCD, Wink I think the 21" 10.75x68 barrel is and looks great. At .635 at the muzzle, the whole rifle is slim and light.
 
Posts: 6820 | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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You will need to keep up your taper to match the forend cap when it come in, thats where the taper melts into the cap and the taper is the finale. Looks like a nice job and a neat rifle your building, keep in mind the bottom like is the eye of the beholder, that means you!!and you alone..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41754 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Right on back40, and keep in mind the 10.75x69 delivers a good deal of recoil, and as much as I love "skinny", id want a bit more beef in that caliber but keeping within matching lines, a great tool in stock making is the 12 inch ruler to keep things straight and level..

An option Ive used is the forend center schnable to a another schanble or forend nose cap..Its important to keep the schnables pretty small .

The Brno forend on the 21 rifle is a nice touch..to take the wood down a bit the straight to the forend cap..

The gunmakers eyeball is your best tool..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41754 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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A few pics of an Echols Mannlicher




 
Posts: 7761 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Now, that is VERY nice, to say the least.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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I like the mod 70 swivel studs- still look good.
 
Posts: 1122 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 04 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Well I got it just about put together, Bob Gipson did the stock and I just got the barreled action back from having the bolt and safety installed. Still have to remove a little wood for the bolt and then get the metal prepped and rust blue. Came in right at 6 1/2 lbs.



 
Posts: 764 | Registered: 20 July 2016Reply With Quote
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Love it!
I've got some nice wood for a full stock job and you're motivating me to begin on it. Thanks!

Zeke
 
Posts: 2269 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Beautiful gun beautifully built to your liking, and that's a good thing and as it should be..

I would have gone with the European pancake cheek piece to match the Mannlicher along with a prince of Wales grip and perhaps a small center forend Schnable leading to the nose cap. Just my idea of a true guild gun, and only my personal opinion.

You certainly do nice work..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41754 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Ain't too bad...not wild about the comb nose being lower than the heel...but if you like it, who's to argue?
 
Posts: 3433 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
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