Pictures and more details below.

I have a mauser that is 8mm, the bottom of the barrel is marked 172/28 and the receiver is marked 2,67g G.B.P. over St.m.G

The bore measures .309-.318.

I have found MidwayUSA has .318 Woodleigh bullets. Kinda shocked at the $150 price tag on a set of neck sizer dies from Midway.

There is no commercially produced ammo around.
RWS discontinued one single round they once produced.
The dimensions of the 8x57 IS( .323) and the 8x57I (.318) are absolutely identical with the exception of the neckdiameter.
The easiest way is often to use a standard full length die for the 8x57 IS without the expander ball !!! so that the grip of the bullet is strong enough and if your die is of tight dimensions and the chamber on the upper end of tolerances it will work.

So if you have access to a 8x57IS die try it.
If it will not work make a necksizer for the .318 and use the 8x57IS brass.

The .318 dies are hard to find and usually command a premium. I lucked into a set on eBay that was a 318 sizer with .323 expander ball. Go figure! It is the only set I have seen in 4 months of looking on several forums and shows. CH4D lists them along with a bullet reducing/swaging die. There should be bullets available since the rimmed version is still produced as factory ammo.

An option I was considering were the bushing dies that Redding (?) sells but I never got around to seeing if they were available in 8x57..

First, identification marks.

Caliber/proof markings on bottom flat of barrel


Oberndorf serial number?


Builder serial number?


Crown/ Crown over N Proof Marks on receiver


Receiver ring proof markings


Town where it was built, Gottingen


KRUPP STAHL


I could not get a good picture but the barrel is marked either ROBERT SCHRIDER or SCHRADER

Serial Numbers, there are a few of them!

Top bolt root, corresponds with # on bottom of receiver behind recoil lug.


Bottom bolt root, 74 corresponds with number on bottom of ring and bottom of barrel. 005 corresponds with number on bottom metal, bottom of ring and bottom of barrel.



This number does not match any other


Otherwise all small items match the 13580 number being marked 80. Ie extractor, ejector housing, bolt shroud assembly, etc.

Color case hardened bolt

Double set trigger integral in bottom metal

Integral sling swivel and mortise lug

Claw mounts appear to have been added sometime after the rifle was built.









These may have been the original means of scope mounting before the Suhler style claw mounts

Some stock detail and some metal work detail.

So we have a Commercial mauser chambered in the "obsolete" .318 8x57I (more commonly referred to as J in the US). It is obvious to me that it has been refinished at LEAST once in its life. It has been modified once, possibly twice. Once to facilitate the side rail, then twice for the claw mounts.

The rifle was either commissioned for or built by this Robert Schrader. I suspect built by. The question then is, was this action, or rifle, originally built by Oberndorf? To me it seems that the action was most certainly Oberndorf. The markings and marking locations seem to point (again to me) that yes, it was a Commercial Mauser, possibly sold as an action.

The rifle weighs in at 7lbs on the bathroom scale and snaps up beautifully. Comes right to point of aim on the iron sights. I have already started measuring to order up some rings. The double set triggers are fantastic, standard pull is probably 5-6lbs, set is a whisper. Really. Just as I can feel the trigger with the pad of my finger it goes off.

Does anyone know what the side mount might be? Obviously not a G&H, possibly something similar to a Jaeger?

Does anyone have any thoughts on having it rebored and re-chambered to 9.3x62? Any recommendations on someone to re-bore?

Feel free to add any information about the markings or information that you might know. I am sure I missed a lot and there is still a LOT I do not know about this rifle.

The typical .323 dies should squash the neck down far enough. Either spin polish the expander down or remove it entirely.

Double check the groove diameter. Most GEW88s & KAR88s have a groove diameter of .320 to .321.
My measurement match a guy whose numbers come from several hundred rifles.
As a result I shoot .32 Special bullets through mine.
If your groove diameter really is .318 then you can have bullets ran through a centerless grinder.
Or just troll for some of the old Norma bullets.

Very nice. Thanks for those great closeups too.

Nice rifle but need totally restoration. Wooden parts are quite easy to do but the color of steel parts is too black, a new rusted blue would look much better.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
The question then is, was this action, or rifle, originally built by Oberndorf? To me it seems that the action was most certainly Oberndorf. The markings and marking locations seem to point (again to me) that yes, it was a Commercial Mauser, possibly sold as an action.

I maybe wrong but after looking at your pics I am going to say that I do not think it was made by Mauser as a commercial action to be sold to a private gunsmith.
Mauser had its own proof marks (BU in the original Mauser 13K serial range) that I did not see in your pics. These proof marks have been visible on every Mauser commercial action that I have seen.
The font style and spacing of the numbers does not look correct for Mauser.
The shape of the front trigger also does not look like the typical Mauser made sporter. The mechanics of the set trigger also look just a bit different from those I have seen.
My guess is that it was made up from a former military action. Still a nice rifle, have fun with it.

You can solve your bullet problem by using a cast bullet sized to about .310 and then paper patched to .319-.320. If I had the rifle I would look at using my RCBS 30-180FNGC mould without the gas check installed on the bullets. Double wrap of good quality suitable thickness of paper applied wet and twist tailed. Load over a near full charge of suitable powder with a small amount of PSB filler on top of the powder to give a compressed load. The original monolithic bullet and they will shoot very well. Unlike a bare cast bullet the paper patched bullet can be relatively soft and you will not get any leading in the bore as the paper is the only thing contacting the land and grooves.

The numbers and markings indicate that this 8x57J rifle was built by Robert Schrader, Gottingen sometime between 1906-1912. His part number was 28005. The receiver (#13580) and magazine box (#13619) are both commercial Oberndorf part numbers from 1906 but are mismatched, so it was not purchased from Mauser as a complete action.

Kebco,

You may be correct, however I would bring up a few observations. Not to argue by any right, just academic discussion if you will.

In my albeit limited experience noone else made a teardrop bolt handle quite like Oberndorf and this bolt and bolt handle seems to match quite well.

I do not have any Oberndorfs in the shop to compare but I do have an BU proofed 89572 matching numbers action and two mis-matched 1903 intermediate actions. If you would look at the picture of the serial number behind the rear lug there is a script F. On the two 1903 intermediate actions this mark is present in roughly the same location. On the 89572 action it is not.

There is the distinctive Oberndorf step at the ejector slot on the left bolt lug.

Again... none of these things conclusively point to it being an Oberndorf. For all I know he took a Gew action, an Oberndorf bolt, Herr Mueller's bottom metal, Herr Weber's barrel, and put them together much as I would take a 1909 action, machine a barrel, add Wiebe bottom metal, and a NECG set trigger.

Does anyone know or have reference to the individual inspector markings on the bottom of the Oberndorf or any of the Mauser actions?

Dons,

Would you mind pointing out specifically which markings show what information? and which markings to you conclusively show them to be Oberndorf. Would like to learn!

Nathaniel,

Though you and I do not know each other personally or cyberly, I have a set of RCBS 8x57I dies I am willing to loan you.

PM me if interested.

Stephen

On the barrel, the 172/28 was a pre WWI mark used to indicate the fractional gauge or bore dia. Yours is 8mm. The "S" mark was for the Shilling forge that produced the barrel blank. I'm not sure who finished the barrel. The powder charge and bullet markings on the left side of the receiver ring were the style used before 1912. See the German Gun Collectors Assn. web site for a detailed explanation. According to Speeds book, the rear wall of all Oberndorf magazine boxes were marked with the SN such as yours. Oberndorf actions destined for export or sold to private gunmakers had the SN stamped on the receiver flat behind the action lug such as yours. The font style of these stampings did vary. The trigger shape and construction are typical for this time period. The recurve front trigger was adopted around 1913-14. This rifle is what you would expect to see from a guild maker.

Robert Schrader was primarily a firearms inventor holding several German patents. I recently wrote a couple of stories about a trigger plate 16 gauge shotgun marked Robert Schrader, Gottingen.
The first story is in the current (May/June) issue of Shooting Sportsman and a second story with more detail about the shotgun will appear in the next issue.
This Mauser is very much like one I have Marked Robert Schlegelmilch, also in 8X57J. I got a .318 expander ball from Hornady for my dies of their make.
I agree with the pre-WWI dating but have little knowledge of Oberndorf marks. Fortunately, mine has neither been buffed nor drilled.
It is possible to buy a swedge die to make .318" bullets from .323".

Nathaniel, Very nice Mauser sporter! I have read somewhere that alot of the earlier Mausers in 8x57I were rechambered to open the neck so they would work with the 8x57S. You might measure the neck of the chamber and see if your rifle has been opened up. I have a rifle that looks very simular to yours. Mine was made by W. Collath & Sohn in Frankfurt.
The whole action on mine is color casehardened, but the colors are very faint except under the wood line. Mine has the same proof load marking on the side of the reciever ring as yours also. What firing pin does your rifle have? Mine has the pre 1905 two diameter firng pin instead of the safety firing pin used on all the later Mausers. Mine had claw mounts that were added sometime after the rifle built as yours were, but the front one on my rifle was dovetailed into the front reciever ring. I removed them as I had no hope of ever finding a scope for it. My son worked up a load for me with Speer 220gr bullets that shoots about an 1" high at 100yds with the rear sight like you have. It is very accurate.
Again you have a very nice rifle, Mark

Hawk Precision Bullets also makes bullets in .318 in 180 & 220gr

Nice rifle. Definitely a pre 1912 proof marks - just like my Simson

OK, lets see if I can make some of this as clear as mud.

The 2.67g G.B.P. over St.M.G was used 1893-1913 as the proof load for smokeless proof of rifles using 2.67 grams of Gewehr Blattchen powder and STAHL mantel geschoss steel jacked bullets.
The Crown next to the crown over N was used 1893-1939 and was used in conjunction with the above to designate nitro proof of rifles.

The 172/28 designates the number of lead balls to a pound (172.28) which was the proper equivalent for 7.62 or the 7.7 I bore cartridge. Supposedly in late 1911 this practice was abandoned and the barrel was marked in millimeters for the caliber 7.7 usually over the case length 57

The 74 on the barrel and bolt is quite possibly the assemblers number i.e #74. Note on the bolt it is used in conjunction with the last three of the makers number, the 28005.

The 13580 and shorter versions of it are the Mauser (Oberndorf) serial number.

The 88 200 on the sight is in my SWAG a reference to the load the sight was regulated for. i.e. the Model 88 load for a 200 gr. bullet (8x57I as we know it). This same mark is on my 8x57I.

This information (other than my SWAG) is from "A History of Proof Marks Gun Proof in Germany" printed in the 1975 edition of The Gun Digest. When I talked to the members of the German Gun Collectors Association at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show in January, they told me that the info was a good source and also recommended another book (listed on their site). It is also based upon additional information I have been able to source for the WWW concerning German proof marks. It appears there are distinct eras that help date them. The proof laws of 1891, the 1912-1939 laws and the System of 1939.

Based on that I would say draw your on conclusions, but I expect a Mauser action produced as a rifle by/for Robert Schrader prior to 1912.

In other words what Dons said!

I would recommend sending your photos to the GGCA, they have instructions on their site, as they seemed very inclined to help in identification of makers and sorting out these things when I talked to them. They also have a more extensive data base and were able to turn up a fair bit of information on my maker O.G. Scherell right at the show on their lap top.

Thank you to everyone that has posted! Some beautiful rifles Nakihunter and SDH. How I wish mine were unmolested. I have considered restoring it, I will make a set of claw rings for it, but probably leave it alone for some time.

Will anyone weigh in on re-boring it to 9.3? I tried contacting Danny Pedersen to no avail. Does anyone have current contact information?

Thank you again to everyone that posted, I feel as though I have a pretty solid basis as to the history of this rifle. I have contacted the GGCA but have not heard anything back other than that Robert Schrader is a known name to them and he was an inventor, but likely this rifle was made FOR him, not BY him.

The history is almost as interesting to me as the rifle!

Nat,

I have not used him but see good reports on other forums, with quick turn around.

JES Reboring/ www.35caliber.com/index.html

Bob