THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM CUSTOM RIFLE FORUM

Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Fore End length on a bolt gun
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
I’m building a pattern stock for my left hand granite mountain G33/40. The barrel is 22.5 inches long from the receiver ring to the muzzle. The golden ratio fore end length is 8.59 inches and that is what is shown here. This looks OK to me but most early sporting Mausers have shorter fore ends with even longer barrels. The Rigby Highlander has a 7-3/8” fore end, about 1-1/4” shorter than the one shown. The stock is a laminated Richards microfit that still needs considerable thinning, filling and reshaping, especially the grip. I’d like to see some photos of finished guns and get an idea of fore end length versus barrel length from the receiver. Opinions are invited also.

https://i.imgur.com/cBF8LMz.jpg


Quick, Cheap, or Good: Pick Two
 
Posts: 2134 | Location: Tennessee | Registered: 18 February 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
That is plenty short. Rigby forends are too short in my opinion. Just because it is a Rigby doesn't mean it looks good.
It will look shorter and lighter when the tip rounded.
Slant-box, circa 1913 Rigby .303 with too short forend.


ACGG Life Member, since 1985
 
Posts: 1777 | Registered: 07 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I've always used/referred to the Golden Ratio/Mean, +/- more or less. YMMV...

https://www.brownells.com/aspx...etail.aspx?lid=14237
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of 218 Bee
posted Hide Post
I just took delivery on this much-improved Brno ZKK-601 in .223 by Aaron Little.

Aaron and I discussed forend length for a while before settling on this. It works for me!



Mark


DRSS

"I always take care to fire into the nearest hillside and, lacking that, into darkness." - the late Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
 
Posts: 602 | Location: Coleman County, Texas | Registered: 05 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Please can you expand on the Golden Ratio Formula
 
Posts: 979 | Location: Scotland | Registered: 28 February 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of bluefish
posted Hide Post
Is it not barrel length divided by 1.6? Then subtract the number from the barrel length to get the proper forestock length.
 
Posts: 5232 | Location: The way life should be | Registered: 24 May 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Total barrel length x 0.382 = forearm length.

https://www.canva.com/learn/what-is-the-golden-ratio/
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I have struggled with this for 50 years or so. The idea of a "ratio" to determine the fore-end length makes sense but in reality should factors as the presence of a front sight, a barrel band swivel base, the vertical thickness (and taper) of the fore-end, the scope intended and the overall lines desired all have their effect on such mathematics. I use a different ratio as a starting point, that being the for-end length to the exposed barrel in front of the receiver ring. With this in mind, a ratio of around .425 looks nice (equating with .415 ratio for the normally measured 22" barrels). when a swivel band and front sight are present, I tend to like smaller numbers that calculate very closely with the Midway ratio using conventional barrel length measuring techniques. The real point of all this is to consider these ratios as only starting points and then "factor" in what you're after. I have long learned to draw things to scale and adjust this to my taste and what I'm after. Baskin and Robbins found out a long time ago there are many different flavors for different folks. It's always neat to do this but I doubt art can be reduced to definitive numbers or ratios so go have fun with your next perfect piece...


Edward Lundberg
 
Posts: 334 | Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Registered: 13 July 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Another method I've used is to measure the length of the action from back end of the closed (or cocked) bolt to front of the receiver ring and use that length as a starting point for your forearm length, adjusting it +/- til your boat floats.

As eddie said, you've just got to figure out your favorite flavor. And yes, art cannot be reduced to numbers or ratios, but they can be helpful.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
8 to 8.5 inches including Ebony forend tip, and its the owners choice, not set in stone..for my rifles..With barrel band front sight, island or quarter rib rear, and swivel two inches infront of the wood...barrel length is also optional..millimeters don't count for squat..build them like you want them.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SDH:
That is plenty short. Rigby forends are too short in my opinion. Just because it is a Rigby doesn't mean it looks good.
It will look shorter and lighter when the tip rounded.
Slant-box, circa 1913 Rigby .303 with too short forend.


Totally agree, just like some Porsche's are pretty ugly as well.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7570 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
This topic has been considered,re-considered and re-re considered previously. Rules? Well...Clyde Baker had this rule: Forend should be 1 1/2" inches longer than half the barrel length...Hmmmm Why argue...even if it looks strange in the eyes of most
shooters?

Obviously, the forend needs to be longer for a stock mounted swivel to avoid a painful encounter when firing.

Some very smart guy put the swivel on the barrel..problem solved!

In my opinion, he front swivel should allow the rifle to hang from the shoulder just enough to get a comfortable hold on the buuplate...Why? To allow one to "steer" the rife under or around obstacles.

When the swivel location is found, the foreend tip needs a little room behind the swivel. a least 1- 1/2" Two inches even better. (As mentioned by Mr. Atkinson) It really matters not how far back one makes the fore end from the swivel, but you just gotta keep an eye on appearance

I have a client that holds his fore end hand just in front of the front guard screw in the off hand position, A four inch fore end would be plenty practical..but I never went down that road in the numerous rifles I built for him
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
What ever one likes best, but few really put a lot of thought into stock design, more likely they only see marble cake regardless of layout or cure..but its the individuals choice and if he or she likes it, that's about all that counts..Were this not so, Remington wouldn't sell a handful of 700s! rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I saw a 8" forend on a British rifle today and it was an awesome rifle in 7x57 and the barrel band swivel was centered between the forend and barrel crown and it looked and felt great..and the gun hanged right while packing it, it was low and the barrel was a tad head high on me with a rather long sling, only down side is I wouldnt want it to go off next to my ear, but that wouldn't happen and hanging by the butt was even better and faster to get into action.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 218 Bee:
I just took delivery on this much-improved Brno ZKK-601 in .223 by Aaron Little.

Aaron and I discussed forend length for a while before settling on this. It works for me!





That's a handsome rifle, indeed. I heavier calibers (.338 Win Mag and up) I like a bit more beef in the grip area... something to hold onto for recoil control.
 
Posts: 872 | Location: S. E. Arizona | Registered: 01 February 2019Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
That rifle suits me to a T..awesome, properly laid out, awesome wood, and Im betten I could close my eyes, toss it to my shoulder, open my eyes and be dead on the target.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The grip doesn't look all that skinny to me...Like to know the circumference. Fair amount of wood in front of the comb nose...maybe tricks the eye
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of custombolt
posted Hide Post
Using a pre-determined ratio to determine a fore end length is a good start. Shape/taper and an ebony tip (or lack thereof) and the sights and or swivel loop or bottom swivel mount all play into the overall appearance. Then there is the overall shape of the stock to consider. Slender butt/ slender fore end.

A few for comparison -


Top to bottom: All from front ring +/- .125"

7.50"
8"
7.75"



Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 5086 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
All the way to the muzzle I say!

Seriously, the forend has nothing to do with the barrel and everything to do with your forearm. It should allow you to put your off hand behind the sling stud and still be comfortable; and the sling stud should be positioned so you can wrap yourself in the sling for steady shots from the prone or even the sitting or standing positions. This is all independent of the barrel length.


Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC
BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris
Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns
VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear
 
Posts: 2926 | Location: Texas | Registered: 07 June 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Total barrel length x 0.382 = forearm length.

https://www.canva.com/learn/what-is-the-golden-ratio/


My electric calculator says a 22" barrel would generate a 7.22 in, foreend...Not arguing, in fact find that acceptable...just putting it into numbers
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SDH:
That is plenty short. Rigby forends are too short in my opinion. Just because it is a Rigby doesn't mean it looks good.
It will look shorter and lighter when the tip rounded.
Slant-box, circa 1913 Rigby .303 with too short forend.




That Rigby looks OK to me...

Maybe some spirit stain to darken the wood a bit.
 
Posts: 265 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 09 September 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
1 1/4" less than 1/2 the length of the barrel, then adjust to what suits you. example; 24" barrel, half that is 12", less 1 1/4" = 10 3/4 FROM THE RECEIVER/BARREL JUNCTION. (but barrel length is measured from breechface to muzzle)


 
Posts: 669 | Location: fly over America, also known as Oklahoma | Registered: 02 June 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of JabaliHunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Total barrel length x 0.382 = forearm length.

https://www.canva.com/learn/what-is-the-golden-ratio/


My electric calculator says a 22" barrel would generate a 7.22 in, foreend...Not arguing, in fact find that acceptable...just putting it into numbers

tu2
 
Posts: 712 | Location: England | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by slivers:
1 1/4" less than 1/2 the length of the barrel, then adjust to what suits you. example; 24" barrel, half that is 12", less 1 1/4" = 10 3/4 FROM THE RECEIVER/BARREL JUNCTION. (but barrel length is measured from breechface to muzzle)


WAY too long unless very tall with swivel on the fore end The photo of the Rigby shows a darn nice pleasing stock that looked good when it was built and looks good now, will look good in the future
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of BaxterB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
The photo of the Rigby shows a darn nice pleasing stock that looked good when it was built and looks good now, will look good in the future



Couldn't agree with this more...
 
Posts: 7771 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
quote:
Originally posted by craigster:
Total barrel length x 0.382 = forearm length.

https://www.canva.com/learn/what-is-the-golden-ratio/


My electric calculator says a 22" barrel would generate a 7.22 in, foreend...Not arguing, in fact find that acceptable...just putting it into numbers


Mr. Wiebe, I believe that you transposed those numbers. I believe you entered .328 instead of .382

22 x .382 =8.404


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6834 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Mr. Wiebe, I believe that you transposed those numbers. I believe you entered .328 instead of .382

Damn, must be that electric calculator :-)
 
Posts: 20075 | Location: Very NW NJ up in the Mountains | Registered: 14 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I was going to say, Duane you need new batteries!
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Corrales, New Mexico | Registered: 03 February 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
You're right! makes 8.4"...still OK by me..Whew..sure glad we got thru THAT crisis
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
That rifle suits me to a T..awesome, properly laid out, awesome wood, and Im betten I could close my eyes, toss it to my shoulder, open my eyes and be dead on the target.




Couldn't agree more (even if Mr. Bee and I do disagree on safety design...) Wink
 
Posts: 274 | Registered: 01 January 2019Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I like SDHs rifle pictured...

A grip can be small, and look too large, this is done by making the sides egg shaped to a center line on the flat sides, and it will have a thin feel but appear large to the eye as probable in Torres rifle, and thats a nice touch, Ive done that on more than a few custom stocks for ham handed brutes, and they liked it, and in fact it felt good to my smaller hand..

I got that tip many years ago from Jack Haugh and it makes the stock stronger thru the grip, especially for a big bore and it still feels small...Hope my explanation is good, it much easier to show someone than to describe.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of custombolt
posted Hide Post
I think I follow. The first one to pop into my head is the shape of the skeleton stocked 77 Ruger. That grip was slim and trim side to side. Didn't feel like a high-power rifle, more like a 22.


quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I like SDHs rifle pictured...

A grip can be small, and look too large, this is done by making the sides egg shaped to a center line on the flat sides, and it will have a thin feel but appear large to the eye as probable in Torres rifle, and thats a nice touch, Ive done that on more than a few custom stocks for ham handed brutes, and they liked it, and in fact it felt good to my smaller hand..

I got that tip many years ago from Jack Haugh and it makes the stock stronger thru the grip, especially for a big bore and it still feels small...Hope my explanation is good, it much easier to show someone than to describe.


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 5086 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I guess what ever sends your flag up the pole.

To me the slab sided grip is very uncomfortable...kinda doesn't fill the palm.
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
I’m surprised that no one mentioned the location of the rear sight in relation to fore end length.

One of the big name custom makers build a beautiful rifle with a British style stock. As beautiful as the rifle was, the tip of the fore end didn’t reach the large island style sight. To my eye the rear sight/fore end mismatch really threw off the look of the entire rifle.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6834 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
A sort of "standard is to place the rear sight about 4" in front of the receiver (I'm not suggesting this as a "rule", golden or otherwise)

Older shooters may want that placement a bit further down the barrel.

Point is that I can't imagine a rear sight so far forward as to cause visual mismatch. I'd chalk this up to bad judgement
 
Posts: 3435 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
For those that like to read~~Published in Sports Afield October/November 2010



ACGG Life Member, since 1985
 
Posts: 1777 | Registered: 07 February 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of DCS Member
posted Hide Post
I do like the profile of the Rigby style, but have never handled one in the field.


I meant to be DSC Member...bad typing skills.

Marcus Cady

DRSS
 
Posts: 3428 | Location: Dallas | Registered: 19 March 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
SDH, very good article. Thanks for posting it.
 
Posts: 77 | Location: South Pacific NW | Registered: 08 September 2020Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ozhunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SDH:
That is plenty short. Rigby forends are too short in my opinion. Just because it is a Rigby doesn't mean it looks good.
It will look shorter and lighter when the tip rounded.
Slant-box, circa 1913 Rigby .303 with too short forend.

Too short? Are you joking??
 
Posts: 5886 | Location: Sydney,Australia  | Registered: 03 July 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of ozhunter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 218 Bee:
I just took delivery on this much-improved Brno ZKK-601 in .223 by Aaron Little.

Aaron and I discussed forend length for a while before settling on this. It works for me!



Mark

very nice!
 
Posts: 5886 | Location: Sydney,Australia  | Registered: 03 July 2005Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia