Yesterday the CMP sent out a warning against using commercial 30-06 ammo in any surplus military rifle, including M1 and 03.
Saying what I have said for decades; 30-06 is NOT the same ammo as these rifles were designed to fire, giving at least 10K psi more pressure, and often more.

I don't know if there was an incident, it it was just a routine warning.
Anyway, if you want to read it it's on their web site.

Here's a revised notice.

Dear CMP Family,

The CMP advises to not use .30/06 ammunition in M1 Garands, 1903s, and 1903A3s that is loaded beyond 50,000 CUP and has a bullet weight more than 172-174gr. These rifles are at least 70 years old and were not designed for max loads and super heavy bullets. Always wear hearing and eye protection when firing an M1 Garand, 1903 and/or 1903A3 rifle.

This warning is an update/addition to the Ammunition section in the Read This First manual enclosed with each rifle shipment (M1 Garand manual-page 6 and M1903 manual-page 10).

Civilian Marksmanship Program

Makes sense. The .30-06 Govt was designed based on a lengthened 7 mm Mauser just after the turn of the 20th century. Probably developing similar pressures (45k-49k). Modern commercial ammo indicate 60k + pressures. I don't consider 172-174 grains "super heavy" in a .30 cal. Now 220 grains would be.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Yesterday the CMP sent out a warning against using commercial 30-06 ammo in any surplus military rifle, including M1 and 03.
Saying what I have said for decades; 30-06 is NOT the same ammo as these rifles were designed to fire, giving at least 10K psi more pressure, and often more.

I don't know if there was an incident, it it was just a routine warning.
Anyway, if you want to read it it's on their web site.

The original 30-06 (the 30-03) used a 220 grain bullet. Pressure was well below 50K psi though.

No problem don't pollute your barrel with modern factory ammunition.

Schuster Mfg.'s adjustable M1 gas plug makes this 'problem' a non-problem.

Install it in your M1, tune it with the internal screw, and shoot any 30-06 ammo you like.

Easy-peasy.

The problem is not cycling. The problem is pressure. The barrels and receivers were designed to shoot lower pressure ammo. They are trying to prevent these old actions from grenading in people's faces.

quote:

Originally posted by A.J. Hydell:
Schuster Mfg.'s adjustable M1 gas plug makes this 'problem' a non-problem.

Install it in your M1, tune it with the internal screw, and shoot any 30-06 ammo you like.

Easy-peasy.

Are not all military's rifles designed to work with in certain parameters.

More so then non military ones that have to use a wide variety of ammunition's, bullet weights ect.

So converting any old military one to cartridge's that operate.

Beyond those ordinal specifications should be a no go.

Yet thousands have been.

Even going so far as altering them to take much larger cartridge's operating at higher pressures.

Machining away parts of the action to do so. In theory making them weaker then they were.

quote:

Are not all military's rifles designed to work with in certain parameters.

Long forgotten, a song by Roger Miller, it had something to do with roller skating in a buffalo heard. This has nothing to do with roller skating or buffalo, but he included a part about the pendulum swinging. The CMP notice reminds me of the pendulum swinging back the other way. Someone should ask CMP, "what happened?". For all I know they hired a reloader.

I was in Victory, TX. a few years ago, when I found a Rock Island 1911 03 rifle. I made a deal with the owner, I told him if he could convince me the rifle had rifling, I would purchase it. He went to work on it and used up a lot of cleaning supplies. After 2 hours he handed me a rifle with the beginning of what looked like rifling. A deal is a deal, I purchased the rifle. I did not care about a high number or a low number 03, the barrel, on that day started out as a 03 with a .296" diameter barrel. A clean barrel would have started out as a .300" barrel. And my friends told me they would not shoot that thing and they did not offer to help clean the barrel or show off with their skill or knowledge. They thought I was going to wear the barrel out.

New, factory over the counter ammo, I had an opportunity to purchase thousands upon thousands of tests fired 30/06 cases, they ask me if I was interested. I wasn't, I explained to them I would be interested if they would allow me to measure the diameter of the case heads before they fired them. No deal, they were not going to share data. I did get a phone call from Corbit, AK. He claimed he had an opportunity to purchase barrels of test fired cases, some with round dents in the side of the case body. I told him the dents would not bother me, I told him I would size the case then box them up for sale.

If I was worried about new factory over the counter ammo, I would measure the case head diameters first then fire. After firing I would load, fire and measure again. I have case head protrusion of .090" on all of my 03s and 03A3s I have .110" on all of my Mauser 98s. If there is anything radical about factory 30/06 new/factory ammo the higher-pressure sign will show up on the unsupported case head.

And if anyone wants to get cute by greasing their chambers, cases and bullets they are on their own.

F. Guffey

I've got a 1970's Lyman manual and the '06 pressures max is in the 42-45k range. The same as the 7x57 Mauser.

Ive got a Peruvian M-98 converted by FN to 06. Safe or unsafe for factory 06?

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Makes sense. The .30-06 Govt was designed based on a lengthened 7 mm Mauser just after the turn of the 20th century. Probably developing similar pressures (45k-49k). Modern commercial ammo indicate 60k + pressures. I don't consider 172-174 grains "super heavy" in a .30 cal. Now 220 grains would be.

Wait, what?? I dont buy factory 06 ammo, havent for years. But dont Manufacturers give a shit about Saami Max pressures anymore? 60,000 psi over the counter 06 ammo is just stupid. This smells like lawsuit fodder to me.

I think this has more to do with damaging rifles than overt safety.

The Garand is well known to damage the op rod if bullets of the wrong weight or excessive port pressure are used.

The 1903’s had a bunch with questionably heat treated receivers.

Prolonged use of hot ammo will result in damage to the rifle, and if headspace gets out of whack enough, injury could result.

What works well in a Garand all fits in SAAMI spec, but SAAMI spec can also be outside the parameters for a Garand.

I think another part of the warning is due to with the ammo shortage folks using whatever they can find… most nobody would put high end hunting ammo through a Garand on the target range, unless they couldn’t find anything else- financially it’s silly.

That being said, there are a lot of folks that are not particularly knowledgeable about how firearms actually work. I’ve seen guys trying to stuff .300 magnum into a .308 as “they are .30 ammo” and real idiots thinking that shooting a .22 is ok because it’s smaller in a deer rifle… and can’t figure out why it won’t go “bang”…

Realize that NO maker of anything is bound to follow SAAMI standards. It's a miracle our stuff fits as well as it does. Rifles, ammmo, dies, brass, bullets.
Also realize that, as I have said before, modern 30-06 Ammo is NOT anything like military M1, or M2 Ball ammo. Except in outside dimensions.
Also, do NOT fire 30-06 ammo in any converted 7.65 military rifle. Some will set back.
And yes, there are lots of idiots out there owning and shooting, firearms of all types.

Duh, Im thinking in terms of copper units. Dont mind me, just the CRS kicking in again.

Peruvian Mausers are good, some overeact and have them rehardened, thats been said to be like painting an aluminum barn..Lots of fine Peruvian actions on some high dollar custom rifles..

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the original 30-06 load used a 200 grn bullet?

The 30-06 originally had a 150 grain bullet, later the M1 Ball cartridge was developed which was 173 grains. Just before WW2, we developed the M2 Ball cartridge, back to 150 grains. The AP bullet was heavier but I forgot how much it weighed.
You might be thinking of the 30-03 Cartridge which used the 220 grain round nose bullet from the Krag. Once we realized that all of Europe had already gone to the Spitzer bullets, we, as usual, late to the weapons development game, changed ours.
What we want to avoid on the Garand is too high gas port pressures. Bullet weight is immaterial.