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US ARMY MODEL 1909 DA 45
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back in the early 80s when i was losing money hand over fist as a gun dealer, an old lady walked into the shop with a paper bag. her husband had died and she wanted his gun outta the house. he had retired cavalry? from ft. bliss. yes, i'm ashamed of myself for what i gave her for it. but she was happy so...! it came with the flap holster. first thing i did was take off the grips and sure enough there was the receipt for $8.00 he paid the army for it. written in pencil and dated 1922. i wrapped it in plastic bag and put it back under the grip. wonder if theres any way to find out if the pistol was over seas or saw a campaign etc etc? ser # is 3556x
also, has stamped high up on right sideplate beside hammer initials FB, and on sideplate above right grip RAG. i think last initial is a G.
has lanyard loop on bottom. never shot it but wanted to! what do i have?
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Bill/Oregon
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I dunno but it sounds utterly fabulous! Got "pitchers"?


The language of God is science.
 
Posts: 13065 | Location: Alamogordo, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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pics i got. the ability to post em i don't
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
back in the early 80s when i was losing money hand over fist as a gun dealer


Don't know what you have or how to find out.

I guess we know why you where losing money hand over fist as a dealer.
 
Posts: 15943 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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wow thats really helpful. why don't you go back to trying desperately to convince people you are at least a 3rd rate BB gun instructor and leave the intelligent responses to those who may actually have a little, or a lot, of firearms knowledge.
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of NormanConquest
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John,if you ever make it down this way to look at that 1927 Colt New Service of mine that you are interested in,bring it along.Maybe we can find something in the S+W book.Or the blue book but as we all know,those are only suggested prices. I can relate to not making money in the gun trade.Let me rephrase that,I made good money building custom rifles. I could not make a living on gunsmith work as we are out here in the country + most folks have a broken 22 that would cost $50.00 to replace,etc.;how are you going to charge anyone anything + still make something.Some of the jobs were interesting though. I remember once having a 1897 Marlin pump with a broken firing pin that I had to make another.That was a fun project.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12516 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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i just may do that. with the grandkids outta school and my daughter not able to do any driving etc we have some pretty full days.
my problem as a dealer in the 80s was that thing no wanted to say. recession. the peso devalued and the mexicans quit coming across to buy tires so the tire salesman quit buying guns and ammo. domino effect. plus i couldn't compete with wally world. i finally put an ad in the paper and a sign in the window saying i bought old guns, and would resell em for a $10-50 dollar profit. new stuff just didn't sell. i used to glass bed a used rifle, load ammo for it, sight it in, make up a coupla boxes of ammo, add a few bucks to the price. they only sold during deer season. when i discounted em. one year i sold legal UZIs for Fathers Day. put a big ad in the paper. sold a stack of em. caused an uproar. had letters to the paper protesting me etc. TV news come by for an interview. finally had to go back to doing the lords work carrying for a living.
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of LionHunter
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The model 1909 was a "stop-gap" for use in the Philippine Insurection after the issue .38 proved ineffective and before the M1911 became accepted. Almost all of the few that were made shipped directly to the Philippines. The caliber is a unique "Army .45", neither .45 long colt nor .45 acp. I have owned one in my collection for at least 10 years. They are much more rare than the M1917 revolver but can become available from time to time. Those that came back from the PI were generally in poor condition due to weather.

The initials are those of the Army inspectors at Colt. RAC was Ronaldo A. Carr. Having the dated receipt should increase the value. You can request a letter from COLT which will tell you where and when it was shipped.

All the above is from memory, so please excuse any errors.


Mike
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Posts: 3575 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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thats good infor, thanks. i googled it before i posted and read about it being a stop gap etc arm used in the philippines for a short time, but thats about it. i also googled the ser # but nothing comes up on that firearm.
its in good shape except for some blueing loss on the bbl that looks like holster wear. not pitted and the bore looks good. the fact thats its not a 45 LC caliber is really interesting, as is that the inspectors name is now known. the receipts really hard to read as was written in pencil, very lightly. in the right light you can make out what some of it says. younger eyes could probably make out a lot more. thanks again for the infor!!
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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https://www.rockislandauction....uble-action-revolver

This one sold for $3450 two years ago


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 100 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 9225 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of NormanConquest
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Well, that's a start on establishing value.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12516 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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holy crap. thats not bad for a $25 investment! course mines not in that good a shape bluing wise. and at this point i'm more interested in any history on i can find. i called Colt and got the usual. 90-100 days and $100. have to wait and see. i guess all i'm gonna learn is that it was shipped to the military somewhere. wish at age 31 i hadda cared a little more about that when i bought it!
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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I think the cartridge was the same length as a .45Schofied with the rim of a .45 Colt allowing it to be used in the shorter Schofild chamber as well as in the .45 Colt. This round is a bit shorter than the .45Colt and is responsible for the common name of .45 Long Colt for the .45 Colt. Your pistol will accept either.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With Quote
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nice! Cool
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Actually, the 1909 used a 45 Colt with the same length and a slightly larger rim as the rim used for the Colt single action was too small for reliable extraction in the 1909. I use regular 45 Colt cartridges in mine with no problem.
"The .45 Colt was the powerhouse of the day with a track record dating back to its introduction in 1873. The old .45 loads intended for the Single Action Army had such a narrow rim that the extractor star of the M1909 could miss and bypass the cases, leading Frankford Arsenal to design a smokeless-powder load housed in a case with a slightly wider rim." From American Rifleman
 
Posts: 886 | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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Best I can find is what I posted. Schofield length with Colt rim. Called the .45 Colt Government. Small rim not entirely reliable in the Schofield but it worked. I don’t have any reference that mentions using the larger diameter rim. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen just I can’t find it.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 01 January 2010Reply With Quote
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"Colt had produced a revolver for the U.S. Army called the M1909, a version of their heavy-frame, .45-caliber, New Service model in .45 M1909, a version of the .45 Long Colt with an enlarged rim to facilitate extraction, to supplement and replace a range of 1890s-era .38 caliber Colt and Smith & Wesson revolvers that had demonstrated inadequate stopping power..."

"The S&W revolver used the .45 S&W Schofield, a shorter cartridge, which would also work in the Colt, however the Army's S&W Schofield revolvers could not chamber the longer .45 Colt,[5] so in 1874 Frankford Arsenal, then almost exclusive supplier of small arms ammunition to the U.S. Army, dropped production of the .45 Colt in favor of the .45 S&W round. This resolved the Army's ammunition logistic problems but there were still plenty of the longer Colt-length cartridges in circulation once production ceased. The Benet primed .45 Revolver cartridges were subsequently replaced by the 'Model of 1882 Ball Cartridge for Cal. .45 Revolver' which used an external Boxer primer and could be reloaded at the unit level.[6] The .45 caliber M1882 cartridge would be officially replaced by the .38 Long Colt in 1892 but would remain in production until about 1896. In 1901-1902 it would once again by loaded by Frankford Arsenal for use in the Philippines.

In 1909, the .45 M1909 round was issued along with the .45 Colt New Service revolver. This round was never loaded commercially, and is almost identical to the original .45 Colt round, except having a larger diameter rim. "

Again, mine chambers and shoots 45 long colt. It probably wouldn't do this if it were chambered for the Schofield or a shorter cartridge.
 
Posts: 886 | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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somehow i missed this reply. thanks

letter from Colt just came in. said was shipped Nov 24, 1909 to the Commanding Officer, Ordnance Dept, Manila, Philippine Islands. "special feature" was Furnished with a lanyard swivel. total 995 guns in shipment. don't think this makes atypical, but nice to have anyway. guess the guy that mustered out of the cavalry at ft. bliss saw service over there.
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of Huvius
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I have one that I’m sure is similar to yours.
I also shoot regular old 45LC in it.
Here are some pictures.



 
Posts: 2214 | Location: Colorado U.S.A. | Registered: 24 December 2004Reply With Quote
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nice. mines in a lot better shape than that one but that doesn't mean it'll shoot any better. gonna dig it out one day and try a few keith bullets in it. its serial # 35 5##
 
Posts: 862 | Location: south of austin texas | Registered: 25 November 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
l

I inherited one of these pistols from an uncle. It came into my family when my grandfather was a prison comissioner in texas. Several cases of these pistols were shipped to the prison in Huntsville and my grandfather told my father to get one of these pistols for him and clean it up and make sure it would shot. My dad shot it six times and put it up. It had been shot six times when I got it some 50 years later. There was also a lot of army ammo with it that I did not trust. I shot and reloaded for it. I sold it for $1000 about 20 years ago to buy something else. Which I had it today.
 
Posts: 926 | Registered: 25 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Picture of NormanConquest
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Boy oh boy, don't we all have sellers remorse from all those over the years that we wished we had not sold or traded away?


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12516 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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