Merkel 140 safety question

17 October 2020, 05:38

sambarman338

I notice that some best-London makers seem to recommend auto safeties, and it may be for good reason, even beyond the British driven-game scene where loaders are employed:

If you practise slipping the safety as you raise a rifle or gun, it becomes habitual; and if you do it earlier there can be moments when you push frustratedly at a safety that won't go off - because it already is off.

Though I haven't noticed a problem with manual safeties when reloading rapidly, theoretically there could be one if you've practised that procedure long enough.

17 October 2020, 05:49

Todd Williams

I've never heard of an auto safety on the Merkel 140.

I highly recommend getting it changed tho if you plan to hunt DG with it. Auto safety has no business on a DG DR!

17 October 2020, 07:33

cal pappas

quote:

If you practise slipping the safety as you raise a rifle or gun, it becomes habitual; and if you do it earlier there can be moments when you push frustratedly at a safety that won't go off - because it already is off.

As I do and have done for 25+ years. Give me a manual safety now and I will forget to set the safe after I load or reload. I guess it's all in what one is used to doing. When I get a double now, if the safety is manual I immediately have it changed to auto.
Cal

_______________________________

Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska
www.CalPappas.com
www.CalPappas.blogspot.com
1994 Zimbabwe
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2007 Zimbabwe--vacation
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2013 South Africa
2013 Zimbabwe
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2016 Zimbabwe
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2019 South Africa
2019 Botswana
2019 Zimbabwe vacation
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______________________________

17 October 2020, 18:38

Biebs

I thought everyone hated the Blaser S2 because of its automatic safety?

17 October 2020, 19:22

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
I've never heard of an auto safety on the Merkel 140.

I highly recommend getting it changed tho if you plan to hunt DG with it. Auto safety has no business on a DG DR!

...................AGREED! I've owned several Merkel double rifles and shotguns, and all mine have been with manual safeties!
In fact I don't own a firearm, of any make, with an auto safety.
.................................................

MacD37

17 October 2020, 20:59

Biebs

Mac, when you were young, none of the flintlocks had auto safeties :-)

17 October 2020, 21:35

nopride2

All of my shotguns and double rifles have manual safeties. Keeps everything the same minimizing the chance of an accident.

Dave

17 October 2020, 22:31

Todd Williams

Ya'll have to realize, Cal shoots the rear trigger first also!!

Sorry Cal, couldn't resist!!

17 October 2020, 22:43

dpcd

Auto safeties were developed for English Gentlemen and Gentlewomen, party hunters who did not carry, nor load their own gun or rifle. The weapon was passed from bearer/ loader, to shooter, and back, so they thought an extra safety was needed.
I know of no other type of weapon that has an automatic safety. It is generally, a bad idea. For me.
I do suppose they are useful for those who forget easily.

18 October 2020, 10:06

gunslinger55

My old English double has one. Not sure I like it but with training it can be managed. And you won’t “forget” turning it on. You should always be jamming the safety forward when mounting gun ready to fire anyways auto or manual to make sure it’s off

18 October 2020, 10:18

cal pappas

quote:
Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Gentelmen, I have ordered Merkel 140 in .500NE by Internet. There was manual safety in description but it turned out as auto...

Does anybody know how to make auto safety to manual?

Remove the transfer bar. Just a short bar or rod between the top lever and the safe button. That's all. I add the transfer bar when I go from manual to auto.
Cal

18 October 2020, 18:27

crshelton

quote:
You should always be jamming the safety forward when mounting gun ready to fire anyways auto or manual to make sure it’s off

Agreed.
A habit that I developed as a teenager hunting birds with my Parker 20 gauge.

18 October 2020, 20:07

dpcd

But again, please tell me why NO other type of firearm has such a feature. If not, then why does a double gun or rifle need one?
I am, and have always been, since starting to shoot doubles in 1960, perplexed by that.
Of course you train yourself to over come the design flaw, but why is it necessary?

18 October 2020, 22:57

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Biebs:
Mac, when you were young, none of the flintlocks had auto safeties :-)

.................... And they still shouldn't have them

MacD37

18 October 2020, 23:36

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
quote:
You should always be jamming the safety forward when mounting gun ready to fire anyways auto or manual to make sure it’s off

Agreed.
A habit that I developed as a teenager hunting birds with my Parker 20 gauge.

Damned big difference getting the safety feature mixed up shooting birds than facing elephant at less than 10 yards in the thick stuff. If there's going to be a mistake, I want that mistake to result in a gun that fires when I pull the trigger. An auto safety is inviting trouble under that scenario ... with elephants that is .... birds, not so much.

19 October 2020, 19:41

Bill73

Checking the safety is in my books a very prudent thing to do,I have a habit of doing so,god forbid that your manual safety jumps to the halfway point after the first shot or after the first two shots,it's only going to have to happen once & you will see the light

,has happened once to me,thankfully it was at the range,I was shooting factory loads,I don't do that either anymore

19 October 2020, 23:27

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Bill73:
Checking the safety is in my books a very prudent thing to do,I have a habit of doing so,god forbid that your manual safety jumps to the halfway point after the first shot or after the first two shots,it's only going to have to happen once & you will see the light,has happened once to me,thankfully it was at the range,I was shooting factory loads,I don't do that either anymore .

I'm not sure I'm following your comment Bill. Are you saying you check the safety between shots even when they occur milliseconds apart as in right barrel FIRST, then left barrel? Or double checking the safety is off after a reload when you raise the rife for shots 3 and 4?

If the latter, I agree. I always push the safety forward when mounting the rifle. However, that's a double check on my part to make sure it's still off in the case of mounting to fire shots 3 and 4.

If there is going to be a failsafe, I want that failsafe to err on the side of being ready to fire, especially in the case of actually using the rifle for it's intended purpose of hunting DG in tight spaces.

I would think it much more likely for the auto safety to engage, and only be partially disengaged while mounting for shots 3 and 4 (likely due to adrenaline dump, similar to short stroking a bolt gun) than it would be for the manual safety to partly engage due to recoil between shots.

In any case, always pushing the safety forward while mounting is a good habit. But I want the fail safe to be in my favor for an extreme situation, which is after all, what a DR is designed for.

19 October 2020, 23:38

gunslinger55

Could happen on either-being left "on" I mean. The major issue would be in a crisis scenario reloading. You would have to have some good ingrained habits for sure with an auto...

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
quote:
You should always be jamming the safety forward when mounting gun ready to fire anyways auto or manual to make sure it’s off

Agreed.
A habit that I developed as a teenager hunting birds with my Parker 20 gauge.

Damned big difference getting the safety feature mixed up shooting birds than facing elephant at less than 10 yards in the thick stuff. If there's going to be a mistake, I want that mistake to result in a gun that fires when I pull the trigger. An auto safety is inviting trouble under that scenario ... with elephants that is .... birds, not so much.

20 October 2020, 16:44

Roman BGH

quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
I notice that some best-London makers seem to recommend auto safeties, and it may be for good reason, even beyond the British driven-game scene where loaders are employed:

If you practise slipping the safety as you raise a rifle or gun, it becomes habitual; and if you do it earlier there can be moments when you push frustratedly at a safety that won't go off - because it already is off.

Though I haven't noticed a problem with manual safeties when reloading rapidly, theoretically there could be one if you've practised that procedure long enough.

The problem is that this double rifle is the only rifle with auto safety. I don't have habit to use auto safety and don't want to be depended on this new habit in dangerous game hunting.

20 October 2020, 16:55

Roman BGH

quote:
Originally posted by cal pappas:
quote:
Originally posted by Roman BGH:
Gentelmen, I have ordered Merkel 140 in .500NE by Internet. There was manual safety in description but it turned out as auto...

Does anybody know how to make auto safety to manual?

Remove the transfer bar. Just a short bar or rod between the top lever and the safe button. That's all. I add the transfer bar when I go from manual to auto.
Cal

Thanks! It seems to be more complicated. As I understand I have to make notch in this bar in order not to touch the safety.
The problem is that gunsmith in Merkel dealer office refuses to do it

20 October 2020, 16:59

Roman BGH

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by crshelton:
quote:
You should always be jamming the safety forward when mounting gun ready to fire anyways auto or manual to make sure it’s off

Agreed.
A habit that I developed as a teenager hunting birds with my Parker 20 gauge.

Damned big difference getting the safety feature mixed up shooting birds than facing elephant at less than 10 yards in the thick stuff. If there's going to be a mistake, I want that mistake to result in a gun that fires when I pull the trigger. An auto safety is inviting trouble under that scenario ... with elephants that is .... birds, not so much.

Yeah

20 October 2020, 18:51

Bill73

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by Bill73:
Checking the safety is in my books a very prudent thing to do,I have a habit of doing so,god forbid that your manual safety jumps to the halfway point after the first shot or after the first two shots,it's only going to have to happen once & you will see the light,has happened once to me,thankfully it was at the range,I was shooting factory loads,I don't do that either anymore .

I'm not sure I'm following your comment Bill. Are you saying you check the safety between shots even when they occur milliseconds apart as in right barrel FIRST, then left barrel? Or double checking the safety is off after a reload when you raise the rife for shots 3 and 4?

If the latter, I agree. I always push the safety forward when mounting the rifle. However, that's a double check on my part to make sure it's still off in the case of mounting to fire shots 3 and 4.

If there is going to be a failsafe, I want that failsafe to err on the side of being ready to fire, especially in the case of actually using the rifle for it's intended purpose of hunting DG in tight spaces.

I would think it much more likely for the auto safety to engage, and only be partially disengaged while mounting for shots 3 and 4 (likely due to adrenaline dump, similar to short stroking a bolt gun) than it would be for the manual safety to partly engage due to recoil between shots.

In any case, always pushing the safety forward while mounting is a good habit. But I want the fail safe to be in my favor for an extreme situation, which is after all, what a DR is designed for.

Agreed that there is no time to check safeties,if the first two shots are that quick,I just sub consciously feel for the safety every chance I get.

20 October 2020, 22:18

gunslinger55

Just looked in my manual and said auto safety not available on .375 up safari rifles for all the reasons stated. Also no set trigger available as well. Seems odd you got an auto safety on a .500.....

21 October 2020, 01:14

Roman BGH

To someone who has never seen auto safety on Merkel 140

https://youtu.be/YwQ70cYkxhc

01 November 2020, 01:08

Roman BGH

I did it. It was not easy.

We could not loose action because the main nut was locked twice! We only managed to loose the butt. We had to drill a tiny piece of bar. BTW this bar is moved by barrels during cocking the action.

It’s not an original merkel bar but looks similar.

So, double check that your Merkel has manual safety unless you want auto)))

05 November 2020, 01:40

Nitro_Andreas

My Merkel 140A non ejector modell inn 470NE
Made in 2000. Has automatic safety hehe

05 November 2020, 09:00

sambarman338

quote:
Originally posted by Bill73:
...
Agreed that there is no time to check safeties,if the first two shots are that quick,I just sub consciously feel for the safety every chance I get.

Though I've never had trouble when reloading doubles fast, the trouble I see with sliding safeties is that unlike, say a wing or M70 safety, the thumb can't detect much difference in the position and you may waste time trying to dislodge a safety that is already off. I have had such trouble in times when I foolishly put the safety off early and then forgot I'd done it.

07 November 2020, 07:36

tanks

quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
But again, please tell me why NO other type of firearm has such a feature. ...

My Grulla SxS 12 gauge shotguns have auto safeties. It is not a big deal as I disengage the safety as I shoulder the gun anyway. It also makes it safer for my loader on driven hunts when he is handing the loaded gun to me and getting the fired one of the pair back.

24 November 2020, 07:47

lavaca

A shotgun should have automatic safeties. Mine do.
A proper double DGR should not!! Mine don't. IMHO.

23 December 2020, 01:22

Atkinson

I would not own a double rifle or a shotgun with auto safty, I want to be the master of my gun. if Im hunting dangerous game I want to know when to push that safty and when to pull it back, its just a better option.

11 February 2021, 03:15

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I would not own a double rifle or a shotgun with auto safty, I want to be the master of my gun. if Im hunting dangerous game I want to know when to push that safety and when to pull it back, its just a better option.

...........................My sentiments as well!

MacD37

13 February 2021, 09:14

sambarman338

I guess the main thing is to have a system that becomes second nature. If you are brought up shooting driven pheasants and grouse, with loaders and your own pair of Purdeys, auto safeties would be indicated for safety. If after 20 years you then wanted a double rifle for Africa, I would get one (or two

) with exactly the same set-up.

13 February 2021, 18:50

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
I guess the main thing is to have a system that becomes second nature. If you are brought up shooting driven pheasants and grouse, with loaders and your own pair of Purdeys, auto safeties would be indicated for safety. If after 20 years you then wanted a double rifle for Africa, I would get one (or two ) with exactly the same set-up.

Driven pheasants and grouse are decidedly not the same thing as elephant or buffalo in thick jess at close range. Once you open the ball game with Dangerous Game, the last thing you want is to have a mechanical device interrupt your ability to shoot during a heightened state of excitement where your life could be on the line.

Regardless of your training with pushing the safety forward upon shouldering the weapon, if you put it on fire and start the game, it will remain on fire until the animal is down for good whether you continue to push the safety forward OR NOT. If an auto safety puts it on SAFE each time you break the action, you then MUST push it forward again. I prefer the fail safe for DG to be in MY favor.

13 February 2021, 18:56

xausa

quote:
Originally posted by sambarman338:
I guess the main thing is to have a system that becomes second nature. If you are brought up shooting driven pheasants and grouse, with loaders and your own pair of Purdeys, auto safeties would be indicated for safety. If after 20 years you then wanted a double rifle for Africa, I would get one (or two ) with exactly the same set-up.

While you're at it, get a pair of identical double rifles, so your loader will have one to pass to you when you hand him your empty rifle to load.

No automatic safeties for me, thank you. All my shotguns, double rifles and drillings have the same manual safety arrangment. No Greener safeties for me, either, or rifle barrel cocking devices located where the safety would normally be.
All the safeties on my BRNO ZKK rifles have been replaced with Model 70 style back to front safeties.

14 February 2021, 05:38

mdstewart

Merkels big bores were made both ways. I had to send one to Herbert at Steyr/Markell to change from auto to manual. For NA hunting, I prefer auto. Just mop.

20 March 2021, 10:08

Robertcat

I couldn't think of anything more idiotic than an automatic safety on a dangerous game rifle ,evidently the English wanted their double rifles the same as their shotguns ,which might be understandable ,when the English had their Social bird hunts where everyone had X number of Social drinks before, during, and after, and a ''automatic'' safety was a Good idea ![to avoid people getting shot] I wonder how many of them got flattened by big/dangerous game ,when in that millisecond of desperation, they forgot the ''automatic safety.
As soon as I got my Merkel 470 I had it disconnected .