The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Best DEER-only cartridge? (Never for larger game)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Throwing in my pennies worth from across the Atlantic. Over here we just have deer to shoot with Muntjac, Roe, Fallow, Red and Sika. Carcass weight - ie guts, heart and lungs out, head and feet off range from c10kg for a small muntjac, to 15-20kg for Roe, 40 to 50kg for Fallow, Sika and Red females up to over 100kg for big Red deer. Shooting distances are 50 yards in woodland out to 250 / 300 on the open hill. 243 is very popular for the smaller deer, and plenty of big Red Stags also fall to it. Open ground its the 270 win All round use its the 308. But IMHO the best is 7x57 with a 140 to 156gn bullet. But the 6.5x55 and increasingly the 6.5 Creedmoor are also popular, and with the latter most use a 140gn bullet to maximise ballistic efficiency. In many cases we are now using non-toxic bullets, and with the 308 this is easy to achieve. Indeed Forestry Commission England now just issue 308's to all of their rangers. | |||
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| One of Us |
Years ago Jim Carmichael wrote in one of the magazines that for hunting deer as long as the cartridge shot at least a 100 gr. bullet at least 2500 fps it really didn't matter. He said something to the effect that everything else was just something to discuss around the campfire or in gun magazines. Looks like we have about 4 pages of that here! | |||
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One of Us |
I think you hit the nail on the head. Any rifle within those parameters would work both as a woods rifle and in the open. House it in a light, easy to handle rifle and shoot it a lot. But of course that almost makes too much sense and leaves little to argue about around the campfire! Like Heym said a 7x57 would be one of my favorites after having so many great early memories of hunting with one. Currently my favorite for our local deer is the 6.5x55. Either provides great performance, light recoil and can be made up in a light, handy rifle. For those with more modern tastes the 7mm-08, .260 or 6.5 CM are the same thing. Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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One of Us |
It is interesting that at 119 votes the three leaders are the 270Win (29), 257 Roberts (22) and 6.5x55 Swede (18). They have provided a century of good deer hunting. While the Bob does not technically fit in a short action, it would be a good candidate for a modern application using long, high BC bullets if built in an 8" twist (e.g. with a 121grain Hammer Hunter and a .238G7 BC [~.485 G1] at 2900fps). That rifle even with a standard magazine box would make it a modern design and would out-Creedmoor the Creedmoor. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| One of Us |
With muzzle velocities right at 2800 fps with 100 gr bullets, the 6.5 Grendel would exceed this requirement. The cartridge yields drop and drift that are readily comparable to those in standard pressure 257 Roberts loads. Further, the trajectories for 123 gr bullets map nicely into 150 gr through 165 gr loads in the .308 Winchester Further, it will fit in very short actions making it suitable for AR15-style and lightweight bolt action rifles. The problem is the OP did not included this one in the poll. In his defense, the showing for the 270 Winchester reflects traditional thinking. | |||
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| One of Us |
I chose 25-06 because that is what I own. Plus, I have yet to meet a deer that would recognize the difference of any of the calibers once he can't ventilate any longer. | |||
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| One of Us |
I was wrong. I am only using a 30/06 or bigger. I want a big hole and a lot of blood. Dead deer are useless to me if they run and die 100 yards in the swamp. If 95 degrees when we start hunting and any meat not recovered in 2 hrs is wasted. Searching for dead deer at night in the swamp sucks. Big holes, lots of blood, shoulder shots and easier recovery is where I have gone. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
Many use a .243 here in the UK but i always prefer a 30 calibre as i to like holes and lots of blood loss | |||
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| one of us |
Well there ya have it, an no pat answer, nothing but favorites and that's the only way such a question could be answered, they all work if the nut behind the stock does his part, otherwise none of the work. My favorites for no good reason are the 250-3000 on the light side and the 30-06 on the heavy side and anything in between. not to mention the 30-30 and 25-35 both of which worked out great for deer and elk in my youth and on occasion today out of nostalgia.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| one of us |
I second the 250-3000 ... it's one of my choices for a 3 gun battery (the other two being a 25-20 and a 338). Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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| One of Us |
... Time for another update at 135 votes: Results (135 votes counted so far): What would be the best DEER-only cartridge? (DEER-only, means that it absolutely will not be used for elk, waterbuck, or roan, etc.) 10 (7%) 243 Win 23 (17%) 257 Roberts 9 (7%) 25-06 9 (7%) 260 Rem 11 (8%) 6.5 Creedmoor 18 (13%) 6.5x55 Swede 3 (2%) 264 WM 39 (29%) 270 Win 13 (10%) 7-08 Rem The three most favored "deer-only" calibers remain the 270Win, 257Roberts, and 6.5Swede. However, of the 16 new votes, the 270 picked up 10 of them, with the other 6 just sprinkled around. Interesting. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| One of Us |
I went with the 7mm-08. Though, for me, it was a tough decision between it and the 270 Winchester. I do believe the 7mm-08 is a bit more user friendly for newer shooters. Being a monolithic bullet user, it offers a good bullet selection. My wife has a 7mm-08 in the Kimber Montana. The bullet selection is much better now than when she first got it. I think of it as more of a 300 yard and under game cartridge. But, that is a personal choice. I am a 300 yd and under person. That also applies to my faster magnum cartridges as well. I prefer 200 and under, so Lots of cartridges would work for me. Most all my rifle cartridge choices have multiple purpose intent, in theory at least. | |||
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| One of Us |
So after a big hunting month like November we have the same big three, but the 243 and the 7-08 have been gaining. At 145 votes we now have: 243W - - 13 for +3 257R - - 23 25-06 - - 10 260R - - 09 6.5Cr - - 12 6.5x55 -- 19 264WM - - 03 270W - - 41 for +2 7-08R - - 15 for +2 A person could do a lot of hunting with all of the above as long as the rifle was accurate. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| One of Us |
Mike, I fully agree the terrain/environment can influence the cartridge/caliber choice. And as you mentioned prior, the bullet choice for the cartridge. I had rather spoil/destroy 5 pounds of meat than the whole animal. Regardless of caliber or cartridge, if given the opportunity: I am a believer and practitioner of, I shoot as long as the animal is on its feet. Though many times, one shot opportunity is all that one has. Personally, I had rather be somewhat "over-gunned" than under-gunned. Of course, then there is still that as important bullet choice. Sometimes they all work, and then sometimes there is the less than desirable performance with the so called best.
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| one of us |
It's a silly premise. Shooting deer at 500 yards is flat out unnecessary ... and unlikely. Most deer don't live in open country where you can see past 50 yards, let alone 500. And most hunters can't judge 500 yards, let alone the effects of wind and mirage. Try a little stalking, it will spice up your hunting immensely. Putting Red Hartebeest in the same class as deer is fallacious. A RHB takes a lot more killing than a 100lb WT, BT or MD. So I withhold my vote. Russ Gould - Whitworth Arms LLC BigfiveHQ.com, Large Calibers and African Safaris Doublegunhq.com, Fine English, American and German Double Rifles and Shotguns VH2Q.com, Varmint Rifles and Gear | |||
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The 243 becomes popular with the newbies to the hunting world, fun to shoot lack of recoil but then the smarter ones realize that sooner or later it always fails..and they soon realize the 308-3006 are still the best deer rifles, due to bore size and caliber that has proper velocity to be kind to bullet behavior, they leave good blood trails if the shot is less than perfect, and mostly make retrieving game a simple task, That seems to be the way the system works based on a lifetime of hunting, guiding and booking hunts part time then to full time later on..Finn Aaggard made mention of this in print as have a few other gun scribes and I have to agree with that scenopsis..The 6mm are border line good deer calibers..That said a 222, 22-250 or 25-35 will do good deer work in the right hands.. Bottom line there is no BEST, just opinnions..some based on experience, some on reading ballistic charts, books, magazines, and some of little ballistic knowledge just based on killing high numbers of deer, some by good shots and some who probably have never shot an animal..all walks of life, so as a result you have opened up a can of worms that has no pat answer nor is one needed!!as nothing will change. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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One of Us |
Well said Ray. 500 yards is a long damn way to take a game shot and almost never warranted. I'll preface this by saying I don't enjoy recoil. As someone who has hunted Whitetail throughout their range with a wide variety of rifles from .22 through 12 bore, I would select the little 6x45. Rifles chambered for it can start in the sub 4 lb range without a recoil penalty and when put in to a 6.25-6.5 lb total weight rifle including scope and 5 rounds it's a joy to carry with just enough weight for stability and as close to zero recoil as you can get in a deer rifle. Proven plenty of horsepower to 300 yards and could be pressed further, but why? Any place I've hunted a person could kill deer within 30 yards, I've bow hunted enough to know that. So why on earth would you risk a 500 yard poke at a deer that if hit poorly with ANY caliber/cartridge combo will likely result in a lost animal. I've listened to so many folks bash one cartridge or another for wounding and losing game when the blame really falls on shot placement 99% of the time and bullet failure 1% of the time. Whitetails are the only big game animals I will lay claim to any form of expertise when it comes to killing them. With North of 3,600 of them under my belt I've formed an opinion or two. The 6.5 Grendel intrigues me, but I have no experience with it. The .243 Win has been a great performer for me, as has the 6.5 Creedmoor and my personal favorite all around big game cartridge the .270 Win. You won't hear me knocking anyone's choice, because they're all right for them. Circling back to what Ray said,"There is no best, just opinions". All We Know Is All We Are | |||
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| one of us |
I'll quote my brother-in-law, who said a 30-30 is all any man needs in the Maine woods. He wanted an argument about the 7mm Remington that I'd brought along. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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| One of Us |
What kind of deer? Hunting what areas? Shooting ability? Trophy hunting or filling the freezer? Depending on a number of variables the ideal could be anything from a 45-70 to a 300 magnum. | |||
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| one of us |
I am quickly becoming more and more a fan of the 260 rem .You can make cases from 308 and 243 or 7mm08 that's not the case with the 6.5cm.My 260 weighs 7.5 pounds with a Nikon 4×12 x40 bdc scope on it .It shoots clover leads at 100 yards with lapula 155 grain mega tip bullets and under am inch at 200 yards .It flips deer like a mack truck hit them .It does not kick .I let a bunch of kids hunt with both of my savage model 11 rifles they loved it .They didn't like 270s kicked too much for them .I think the 260 will me my last deer rifle | |||
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One of Us |
These topics however interesting are kind of pointless. So many variables in a deer rifle from one end of the country to another that someones choice in thickly wooded country will be vastly different than someone hunting the wide open spaces in the west. Personal preferences abound. One guy is happy to just get a hit on a deer, someone else doesn't even think about shooting unless he can surgically place his bullet. In some areas a 100 yard shot would be the extreme limits and in other areas a 400 yard shot may be quite common. Some places a .223 with a decent bullet is all you need, other places big slugs moving slow may be preferred, then shots across canyons need flat trajectory. All methods, all regions deer get killed. No one is more right than the next. One hunter can't imagine a rifle without a scope and would be paralyzed without it another hunter can't imagine the need for a variable scope and anything above a 1.5-5 is pointless. Some people have never been presented with a 50 yard shot or under and some people can't see a deer at 400 yards. So many variables that no one could ever come close to agreeing on the "Best DEER-only cartridge". I can't even list all the cartridges I've used to kill deer (maybe I could if I tried hard) but they all died and good shooting was the common denominator, that is what kills deer not cartridge size, not fps, not close shots or far shots. One of my all time favorites is the 257 Roberts, probably killed the most with a 22/250 but have killed a lot with the 30/06 as well. I'll try to list every rifle I've killed deer with, shots ranged from 5 yards to 500 yards. 22 LR, .223, 22/250, 6x45, .243, 25x45, .257 Roberts, 6.5x55, .270, .284, 7.62x39, 30/30, .32 Special, 300 Savage, 30/06, 300WBY, 9.3x62 and there is some more in there I'm missing. | |||
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I still like the 7x57 best though I have shot more with the 30 06 than anything else to date. | |||
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| one of us |
I have been hunting with my 260 rem with 155 grain lapua bullets it has awesome knock down power and knocks a big hole in what ever it hits .I parked my 243 for deer long ago after I lost two huge bucks with it .This 260 is way better than the 243 .I am 57 now and just started getting where I don't like recoil I used my 338 win mag 33 years on deer and this year the 260 rem took its place place .I can't wait to use Berger 156 grain bullets in my 260 then it will be a long range rifle also .The 6.5 cm Is better if you don't reload but I make my 260 brass out of 308 and 243 brass .It shoots under an inch at 200 yards easy and is cheap to shoot a bunch . | |||
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One of Us |
A 264 Win Mag will take a Deer at Any Range. | |||
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Moderator |
7x64, which wasn't listed, is literally the best followed by 280 rem, 7x57, 6.5 swede.. grasshoppers to moose same could be said for my 4" 45 colt .... #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Jeffeosso, you didn't list the 270, which is almost an identical twin to the 280~7x64. But we all have our pet likes and dislikes. Anyway, as mentioned earlier, the poll was set up for a non-elk, deer/antelope round. The 280, 7RM, and 30 calibers, 338, etc., were left out because they are practically never limited to deer-only in campfire discussion. Maybe that was a mistake, but the restriction did offer a slightly different take on a perennial and personal subject. By the way, I was expecting the .264's to lead the pack. I have been surprised by the strength of the 270, and then the 257 Roberts. Who would have put the Bob in second/third place? But when talking "deer-only", the Bob is a remarkable caliber. The 260/6.5CR/6.5x55 can all be grouped together when thinking about ballistics. Together they are on a par with the 270. Which makes sense, in both ways. The 270 was not called the poor-man's magnum for nothing. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| One of Us |
On the 257 Bob, I am gratified to see that such a venerable caliber has held its own in the poll with the 243. Most rifle manufacturers do a 243, but skip the Bob, for the entry-level light-recoil crowd. That makes some sense because the 257 Roberts needs a fairly big "short action". It can be done, but with today's high-BC bullets one might expect a 257 Roberts in a standard length action and a fast twist, 7"or 8". But that would encroach on the 25-06. Better, I suppose, to just put a 7" twist and special throat on a 25-06. Hats off to Kimber who offered the Bob in their Kimber Hunter a couple of years ago. Because the Bob does it all for deer out to 400 yards. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| Moderator |
Hey Buddy, I sure didn't include the 270, and, as you said, it's a close enough copy of the 7x64 (which is actually is.. 'MERICANIZATION of the 7x64).. well, no need to type all that . I see the 257 vs 2506 (much closer comparison) as two VERY different rounds. a 115gr at 2800 vs 120 at, what, 3100 with modern powder? about double the subjective recoil/noise. and while I would have no doubt in my mind that *I* could hunt all of NA with a Barnes TSX Bob, and i KNOW a 2506 .. well, that's off into justification rather than reasoning. I voted for the Bob - i have an ancient Flaigg springfield +douglas barrel that is a legit .75" gun, which just about everything you put in it. I hunted with it for years, the kids took their first deer with it, and it's never been high mtsc. just a great round. i have both 7x64 and 270 .. frankly, they are 100% interchangable, until you hit heavy weight bullets. i LIKE 162gr 7mm frangible bullets at 2800 ... it's like TWO 257's together!! there's no fleas on the 270, and it has a HUGE following in the South, and in Texas -- i expect the most common hunting rifles in Texas are 270, 243, 7remmag or 30/30, and then all others. But the 270 is the historic rifle . there's been a couple articles and books on this one  what do I grab to go deer/pig hunting? usually my 7x64 or 470 accRel .. but, today, it would be my "lowly" 308 - which I am SHOCKED it isn't on this list -- though I believe I've hunting with nearly every caliber on this list!! for me, for the little guys 7x64, 257 bob, 243 work.. but, heck, the 270, 25-06, and 708 are entirely interchangeable. 223, in the right hands, works just fine so, i guess my answer is "any centerfire rifle could suit me" Lord knows I've had the same results with a SKS as a high dollar big bore -- meat on the ground #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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| One of Us |
I have to say that I find the question pretty absurd. "Best DEER-only cartridge? (Never for larger game)" It fails to take into consideration factors like terrain, cover and circumstances surrounding the shot. What might be perfectly adequate in an open field with no cover to interfere with bullet flight, might be totally unsuitable for hunting in a dense forest with only glimpses of the quarry likely. I have taken deer with 32 different cartridges, ranging from .22-.250 Remington to .400 Whelen. Just because they can and have killed deer does not make them a suitable choice for all occasions. My personal choice would be the venerable 7X57 Mauser. but I have also used it to take wildebeest, both standing and running, so it would not fit within the parameters posed by the question. My list of calibers personally used by me to take deer: 1. .22 Savage High Power 2. .22-250 Remington 3. 6mm/.225 Winchester 4. .243 Winchester 5. .250-3000 Savage 6. .257 Roberts 7. .25-‘06 8. 6.5X54 Mannlicher Schoenauer 9. 6.5/.308 10. 6.5/.257 11. 6.5X57 12. 6.5X64 Brenneke 13. .256 Newton 14. .270 Winchester 15. 7X57 16. .280 Remington 17. 7X64 Brenneke 18. 7X75R SE vom Hofe 19. .275 H&H 20. .300 Savage 21. .308 Winchester 22. .30-‘06 23. .300 H&H Magnum 24. 8X57I 25. 8X60S 26. 8X64 Brenneke 27. 8X65R Brenneke 28. 9X56 M/S 29. 9X57 30. .358 Winchester 31. 9.5X57 32. .400 Whelen | |||
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| One of Us |
xausa, How old are you anyway?!?!?!?!? | |||
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| One of Us |
My list that has taken deer: 243 257 Weatherby 270 Win 30-06 300 Weatherby 338 Win Out of that list I’ve taken more with the 243 than the rest combined. I’ve got an ugly Vanguard in 243 that is a pet. Rides in the truck on my ranch every day that I’m there. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'll be 81 in February. | |||
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| One of Us |
Mighty impressive Sir! | |||
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One of Us |
I voted 257R. I have one and love it. Power level is perfect for deer. | |||
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One of Us |
XAUSA...You are young at heart! Happy Birthday! Glad to see a Vom Hofe and 400 Whelen getting some use. Does your Vom Hofe fired brass look like this? The double venturi shoulder? 
577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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| One of Us |
The 7X75R SE vom Hofe is a different cartridge. It's made from 9.3X74 brass and is the rifle caliber of my Krieghoff "Teck" combination gun. It doesn't have the venturi shoulder. It makes reloading fired brass less complicated. | |||
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| One of Us |
I'm a little late to this topic, but for an easy handling, light weight, accurate, low recoil, reliable deer slayer, that comfortably fits most shooters, my experience proves the CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62x39, with a 1-4x scope, or at max, 1-6x is practically unbeatable. Kids love it, adults love it, freezers are full because of it, and a fair number of folks around here have turned to it as their primary deer rifle. Take a young shooter/beginning hunter to the range. Let them shoot a number of different rifles/calibers. My experience is that most of them end up clearly preferring this rifle/caliber/scope combo. | |||
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| One of Us |
What? No 9.3x57? What's up with that? | |||
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| one of us |
Zeke nailed me, Im an old fogy that condems the Creedmore, and my only legitimate reason is its a threat to my beloved 250-3000 and because of that I hate that damn creedmore...  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers Best DEER-only cartridge? (Never for larger game)
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