The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers using different powders not in manualsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
I am new to reloading. I am trying to dial in my 243. I loaded up Hornady 95 gr sst with RL 17. I loaded up some Nosler 100 gr solids Spitzer with IMR 4895. I liked how the IMR 4895 shot. Here is my problem, I would like to load up the SST with IMR 4895 but the hornady book has no loads for IMR 4895. Since the bullets are close to the same grain. I can use the amount of powder for the nosler with the hornday. If not how do you figure out how to use different powders with bullet company that don't list loads in the manuals. Any help is welcomed | ||
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Just go to the starting load and work your way up. | |||
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| One of Us |
To clarify, use the starting load for the 100 gr Noslers for the 95 gr SST and work your way up. The five gr reduction going from the Nosler to the SST gives a small margin for safety. Even the starting load will do well in the field if it is accurate. So, if you find an accuracy "sweet spot" on the way up, that could well be your "go to" load! | |||
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| one of us |
The advice you've been given is appropriate to follow when switching from one similar bullet to another. Perhaps a five grain reduction is too conservative and a five percent reduction might be more appropriate, but some reduction provides a margin of safety for bullets which may not behave like those used with similar powder charges. However, I would further advise that 4895 burns too fast for optimum performance in a .243 when using 95 to 100 grain bullets. Slower powders like 4350 and 4831, or the RL-17 you have on hand, will yield higher velocities -- should you feel the need for such. | |||
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| One of Us |
I personally NEVER use any powder/bullet combination lot listed in the manuals. Conservative approach, definitely; but why take risks when there are so many good loads listed? NRA Benefactor Member US Navy Veteran | |||
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What Stonecreek said is spot on. The only thing I would add to this is anytime you switch bullets insure that the bullets are not into the lands or you may have an immediate pressure spike. Good luck with your hobby. | |||
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The only thing I can add to this is, friends don't let friends shoot the 95 gr SST at game animals!!! I've seen failures in the US and South Africa with this bullet on small game including pronghorn antelope, whitetail, impala and warthog. Enough so, I would only shoot them at paper or prairie dogs. Graybird "Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning." | |||
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+1 TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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I use unlisted powders all the time because I don't want to have 6 or 7 different powders. I have two powders Varget and H4350. It is very safe to reduce the minimum load by 5% when using a similar constructed bullet. For example, I have spoken to techs at nosler and ask for load using a powder not in their manual and on more than 1 occasion they have said, lets check the Hodgdon website and see what they say for the same weight bullet followed by - reduce that by 5%. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Do you also never use any rifle not used by the manual to work up the loads? The difference between two different rifles (and their chambers, leade, bore diameter, rifling depth, and bore finish) can have just as great an effect on pressure and velocity as a change to another bullet of the same weight. Even using a load as identical as possible to one listed in a loading manual is not without "risk". Successful handloading is an activity that requires some significant knowledge and judgment. Experience is the best teacher of what latitude can be taken with a given variable. Loading manuals can only tell you what performance occurred with a particular set of variables in a particular rifle, thus they can only serve as a rough guide as to the results of similar variables in your particular rifle. Loading manuals are not the Ten Commandments; they are more akin to the Ten Suggestions. | |||
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 You truly are a gifted individual,Stonecreek.  roger  Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Stonecreek: I use for all rifles (8x57 Mauser, .375 H&H and now .585 HE) Alliant Reloader 17. Not listed anywhere for that calibers. Also I use for example 800-X for my .460 Rowland or VV N32C for reduced loads in .500 S&W. Non of that in any reloading manual. Reloading is about knowledge, experience, judgment as you said. And we have QuickLoad software too. If I stick with reloading manuals, I can't even shoot half of my guns. Jiri | |||
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| Administrator |
Actually, book listing is only a guide, nothing else. There is no rocket science to powder and loading ammo, one just have to be a bit careful what they use. In our part of the world, where powder is very hard to come by, we use methods some of you might find downright dangerous. We have never had anything go wrong though. Someone turns up here with a can of powder no one knows what it is. Our first step to determine what use it is good for is we try it in a 357 Magnum revolver and very low charge. Worst thing can happen is the bullet gets stuck in the barrel. Something very easily sorted out by adding more powder and problem is solved. We check the velocity, in relations to the charge and bullet weight. We can then determine what powder it is closest to. We had a bunch of Naval flares, that were out of date, and were going to be destroyed. We cut them up, and recovered the powder from them. We got about 8 kilograms of powder from them, and use it for pistol loads. 3.0 grains in a 38 Special with 148 wadcutters works great as a target load - shoots as well as Bullseye! 5.5 grains in the 357 Magnum and wadcutters works just as well. In the 44 Remington Magnum, and 240 grain bullets, we use 9-14 grains and get 735-1105 fps. They all shoot great with our cast bullets. Nothing goes to waste here. Once we were given thousands of military AK47 ammo that had gotten wet, and the primers were rusty. We pulled all the bullets out - the ammo was from different manufacturers - and mixed all the powder together. Knowing where that powder came from made our decision easy. We used all that powder in our 222 Remington and 223 Remington. Worked like a charm. | |||
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A good idea. Side note I have 8lbs of blank powder from 30-06 blanks. The guy used the cases. I tried to develop a useful 38spl load 1.5 grs gave me 600fps with a 158gr lead SWC. 2grs very hard extraction. Decided no useful load could be found. | |||
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The book listings are generally OK, but the 5% reduction rule is a good idea, except for one thing, you state your new to reloading therefore I would use a listed powder in the manuals...Just because your manual does not list a certain powder does not mean that information is not available, it will be had in another reloading manual such as Nosler, Barnes, or whatever..I probably have 8 or 9 reloading manuals, or you can get those little spiral folders that list all the loads in all the manuals for any one caliber for $1.50, Ihave one of those for most every caliber I own and some I don't own, if fact I have a complete set of them, sure handy, its the best way to go as a matter of fact, Midway or Grafs sells them.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers using different powders not in manuals
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