THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM SMALL CALIBER FORUM

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Small Calibers    257Roberts AI 1x11 twist bullet options?

Moderators: Paul H
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
257Roberts AI 1x11 twist bullet options?
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
I'm looking at a used 257 Roberts (aka Bob) Ackley Improved rifle with a 1x11 barrel made pre-1980 that needs some love! This rifle was rebarrel with a 1x11 twist so, no it definitely is not 1x12 or 1x10.

Will it stabilize 100gr boat tail spitzer bullets? Or, would I need to stay with 95gr and under?

What would you use for a tough critter like a hog? Would 117gr round nose, assuming I can find some, stabilize?

From looking at various online reloading tables, I'm thinking the 100gr~120gr loads would run 2800~2900FPS but, that might be a bit optimistic. I'd be shooting inside 200 yards if I stumbled into a feral hog so, perhaps something in the 90gr range would be better?

What advice and suggestions does everyone have? For Deer and Coyotes inside 200 yards and for feral hogs inside 200 yards?


Best Regards,
Sid

All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Alexis de Tocqueville

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville
 
Posts: 578 | Location: East Texas, USA | Registered: 16 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of NormanConquest
posted Hide Post
Sid, you can always experiment with it but I would be inclined to say that I would start playing with the 87 G. see where you are. I use that in my 257 AI + works just fine.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12298 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Slowpoke Slim
posted Hide Post
Ok, I'll bite.

I doubt very much you'll have any issues with 100 gr bullets. Assuming you are above "starting loads" levels with your muzzle velocity. Even if it was a standard Roberts chambering, I think you'd be fine. But with an AI, you'll have an extra bit of velocity to stabilize bullets.

I would even be willing to try 115-117 gr bullets with that twist, but you may not see great accuracy until you get to the upper end of your powder charge.

I think a bunch of early 257 Roberts and 250 Savages had 1-12" barrels. I don't seem to recall them having issues with 100 gr bullets when driven at full velocity.


Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Bismarck, ND | Registered: 31 August 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Slowpoke Slim
posted Hide Post
As for the rest, I load 100 gr Nosler ballistic tips in my daughter's 257 Roberts for deer. I think that would be all you'd need for deer and coyotes, out well past 200 yards (your distance). I think it would still work outstanding at 300-350. Deer are not hard to kill. Neither are 'yotes if you can get them to hold still long enough for the shot.

I load 115 gr Nosler ballistic tips in my 257 Roberts AI, and also in my 257 Wby mag.

I'm sure the 100 gr ballistic tip would work on hogs as well. I would personally probably load the partitions instead for hogs, and I would see if the 115-120 gr partitions would shoot for me out of that gun, but that's just me. I don't have hogs to hunt, and am certainly not a "hog hunter" by any means. I'll defer to guys with actual hog hunting experience on that.

But I've hunted with quarter bores for close to 30 years, and they are *fine* deer cartridges. 250 Savage, 257 Roberts & AI, and 257 Wby. Taken many deer, and several 'yotes that presented shots of opportunity while deer hunting.

The quarter bores just "work". Especially on deer and antelope.


Si tantum EGO eram dimidium ut bonus ut EGO memor
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Bismarck, ND | Registered: 31 August 2006Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of JBrown
posted Hide Post
I think that you might be over thinking things. The slower twist "might" not stabilize longer bullets like a 115gr TSX but I wouldn't bet on it. The extra 100fps of the AI will help you in that regard.

With some of the tough 100-115 grain bullets out there I am sure that you will have no problem finding something that works.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the
punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 5647 | Location: The North Slope, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of NormanConquest
posted Hide Post
I load for a neighbor who has a very early M-99 in 250-3000 that will not stabilize any bullet over 87G. I'm not sure what the twist is on that one, just the results.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12298 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The early 99s were all 1x14 twist for the 87 gr. bullet to meet the 3000 FPS demand for the first time in history according to some..At some point and usually with the 1950ish 99 Fwt. did you run into both 1x10 and 1x14 twist..I suspect those fine guns were built with an overrun of barrels in both twist, that model was my favorite 99, and I bought them in both twists and that was pretty aggravating more or less. As a result I found 1x14 that shot 100 gr. bullets more often than not is they were not boattails, and preferably round nost..The shorter the 100 and 117 gr. bullets were the better chance they would shoot 100 and 117 gr. bullets. None of the 1x14 twists would shoot Nosler Balistic tips, they all keyholed..The 1x10s performed the same more or less but better as a rule..I would always prefer the 1x10 in a 99..Just a better twist with 80 to 100 gr. bullets and shot great with the Hornady 117 gr. as most 250 will..

I really doubt that rifle is a 1x11 twist as most of us use crude methods of reading a twist, and it would pass muster as a 1x12 at most factorys, but I wouldn't swear to it.It seems I read that somewhere..Also I realized that many years ago with double rifles, where in one barrel was smaller or larger than the other, but supposed to be the same..Didn't make much difference in accuracy in any case, as a matter of fact.

All that said, keep in mind regardless of anyones post, mine included, the only true way to answer your questions is at the bench rest, go try them in your gun and let that be your guide..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36099 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
If you'll go back in the archives of AR ten or fifteen years you'll find virtually no one questioning the adequacy of rifling twist. The fact that you are concerned about it indicates that you are a relatively (under 20 years) new shooter who has swallowed the Koolaid of the fast-twist ideologues.

Forget it. Your rifle will tell you what bullets shoot and which don't. A 117 grain spitzer boattail may or may not shoot well in your rifle, but if not it won't be from inadequate twist. Load whatever bullet suits your purposes and see how it shoots.
 
Posts: 12539 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Snellstrom
posted Hide Post
For Deer, Coyotes, hogs I'd start with the Sierra 90 grain HPBT bullet, very tough and even though a hollow point it is every bit the hunting bullet.
Also try the Sierra 100 grain. Then move up to the Accubond 110. If it shoots any or all of those then be happy, don't take everything you hear about twist as the gospel, try it, your rifle is the only thing that can tell if it likes it or doesn't.
I shoot 117 Sierra's in my standard Roberts and couldn't ask for a better bullet.
 
Posts: 5481 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stonecreek:
If you'll go back in the archives of AR ten or fifteen years you'll find virtually no one questioning the adequacy of rifling twist. The fact that you are concerned about it indicates that you are a relatively (under 20 years) new shooter who has swallowed the Koolaid of the fast-twist ideologues.

Forget it. Your rifle will tell you what bullets shoot and which don't. A 117 grain spitzer boattail may or may not shoot well in your rifle, but if not it won't be from inadequate twist. Load whatever bullet suits your purposes and see how it shoots.




You're just being silly Mr Stonecreek.

I'm an old dog, been shooting seriously for probably more decades than you've been alive, sold guns and reloading stuff for 20 years, taught reloading most of that time, not a newbie but I'm an old dog who can learn a new trick.

You're correct, for years we didn't worry about twist rates until we got a bit smarter/educated and could save ourselves the trouble of testing the wrong bullets in our rifles and wondering why it didn't shoot well.

Obviously, if you're shooting close shots, accuracy and such doesn't really matter.

It's not magic but it is science.

Zeke
 
Posts: 1342 | Registered: 27 October 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I can't speak for your rifle but I have a 257 Roberts which I barreled with a gain twist barrel which finishes at 1 in 11.8. I just fired a few groups the other day using 120 grain Speer spitzers. Groups were between 3/4" and 1" and the bullet hole showed no sign the bullets were tipping or, in any way, unstable. Regards, Bill
 
Posts: 2660 | Location: Elko, B.C. Canada | Registered: 19 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I can't speak for your rifle but I have a 257 Roberts which I barreled with a gain twist barrel which finishes at 1 in 11.8. I just fired a few groups the other day using 120 grain Speer spitzers. Groups were between 3/4" and 1" and the bullet hole showed no sign the bullets were tipping or, in any way, unstable. Regards, Bill

Bill, you obviously haven't let your rifle read any internet forums or it would realize that such a slow twist would never stabilize such a long bullet.

You probably also got uneducated whitetails in your area which don't realize that they can't be killed with a non-magnum rifle, also due to lack of education via broadband. That's why they keep falling over dead when shot with a totally inadequate .270 shooting 130 grain Remington Corelocts, otherwise they would know better and just shrug off such a puny bullet.
 
Posts: 12539 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stonecreek:
If you'll go back in the archives of AR ten or fifteen years you'll find virtually no one questioning the adequacy of rifling twist. The fact that you are concerned about it indicates that you are a relatively (under 20 years) new shooter who has swallowed the Koolaid of the fast-twist ideologues.

Forget it. Your rifle will tell you what bullets shoot and which don't. A 117 grain spitzer boattail may or may not shoot well in your rifle, but if not it won't be from inadequate twist. Load whatever bullet suits your purposes and see how it shoots.


A pretty bold statement from someone that doesn't know me. The rifle in question is a new one to me and the ones I'm familiar with were 1x10. Wanting to use some heavier options, 1x11 seemed questionable to me since the used rifle in question was used for heavy varminting and light game. For feral hogs, I want to be able to use something tougher than a deer or pest bullet. That means heavier and longer which brings stability into question. And no, I'm not looking for some EXOTIC bullet either from the PRS circuit or some Extreme Long Range Hunting company.


Best Regards,
Sid

All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Alexis de Tocqueville

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville
 
Posts: 578 | Location: East Texas, USA | Registered: 16 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
I can't speak for your rifle but I have a 257 Roberts which I barreled with a gain twist barrel which finishes at 1 in 11.8. I just fired a few groups the other day using 120 grain Speer spitzers. Groups were between 3/4" and 1" and the bullet hole showed no sign the bullets were tipping or, in any way, unstable. Regards, Bill


That's very encouraging! Thanks!


Best Regards,
Sid

All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Alexis de Tocqueville

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville
 
Posts: 578 | Location: East Texas, USA | Registered: 16 June 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Timan
posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 881 | Location: satterleearmsrifles.com | Registered: 12 November 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Sid Post:
I'm looking at a used 257 Roberts (aka Bob) Ackley Improved rifle with a 1x11 barrel made pre-1980 that needs some love! This rifle was rebarrel with a 1x11 twist so, no it definitely is not 1x12 or 1x10.

Will it stabilize 100gr boat tail spitzer bullets? Or, would I need to stay with 95gr and under?

What would you use for a tough critter like a hog? Would 117gr round nose, assuming I can find some, stabilize?

From looking at various online reloading tables, I'm thinking the 100gr~120gr loads would run 2800~2900FPS but, that might be a bit optimistic. I'd be shooting inside 200 yards if I stumbled into a feral hog so, perhaps something in the 90gr range would be better?

What advice and suggestions does everyone have? For Deer and Coyotes inside 200 yards and for feral hogs inside 200 yards?


With ease and room to spare.

You will be fine with any weight hunting bullets. Maybe some of the very low drag heavier target type bullets might be an issue as they are quite long for their weight.
 
Posts: 5621 | Location: Sydney Australia | Registered: 14 September 2015Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Bad Ass Wallace
posted Hide Post
My 257AI is a Mauser sporter with a 1:11" Bohler barrel. It will not group anything over 90gn. My favoured bullet is a Sierra 90gn HPBT which has taken many pigs and deer.


Hold still varmint; while I plugs yer!
If'n I miss, our band of 45/70 brothers, will fill yer full of lead!

 
Posts: 1727 | Location: Kingaroy, Australia | Registered: 29 April 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of NormanConquest
posted Hide Post
Mine is on a 03-A3 action but I don't know the twist, however, everything in 25 cal. up to 120 G. has worked just fine. My neighbor whom I load for has an early model Sav. 99 in 250-3000 that has a very long twist that will not stabilize anything over 87 G. I have heard that the early Savages were built that way. I'm not sure if that is true but I know in Ken's rifle it is.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12298 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 

Accuratereloading.com    The Accurate Reloading Forums    THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS  Hop To Forum Categories  Rifles  Hop To Forums  Small Calibers    257Roberts AI 1x11 twist bullet options?

Copyright December 1997-2020 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia