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6.5 Creedmoor Chamber dimension Ruger vs Browning
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Posts: 7856 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
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Alf,
I'm surprised at you, you have been on AR long enough to know how it works here.
You decide by which rifle is the most accurate, then you berate everything else that doesn't follow your findings.
It's always best to throw in something abstract, like, "Why is bottled water so expensive" That way you get replies from folks that have neither the rifles or caliber mentioned.
 
Posts: 6835 | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Picture of Fury01
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Bottled water is so expensive because of the special bubbling spring it is pulled from is so far from Walmart.

Since two out of three of your choices work and fit, Redding and the Browning, I would suspect the Ruger but you already knew that me thinks. Either that or the tolerances of fit have hit the perfect storm in the Redding Die and the Ruger chamber. It happens Smiler


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2135 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Try owning multiple Husqvarna 9.3x57's. At least you have an excuse with different manufacturers of barrels. I have 3 husky's and need 3 die sets! Honestly though, It sounds like your the victim of stacking tolerances not playing well with each other. I would check the headspace from base to datum line on fired cases and see if either one is out more than allowed for.
 
Posts: 288 | Location: AL | Registered: 11 July 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
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Nobody is right or wrong. It's called mfg tolerances.

Help me understand your complaint. Instead of figuring out a solution for the sharp edges on the multiple Picatinny rail - like leaving it in a case that is zipped only 1/2 way which you certainly already own. You drop, I dunno, $600-$800 on another rifle and then complain about having to spend $50 on a new set of dies?

Have I got it right?


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10043 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Back to the OP question:

Bolts on Gas guns often open a tiny bit early and that allows the case to stretch because there hasn't been enough time for all the high pressure gas to leave the chamber.

There is also the possibility that the Ruger chamber is out of spec - as is indicated by the comment the the cases get crushed during FL sizing. One way to check is to measure the shoulder diameter of fired cases from both rifles and compare with the SAAMI specs.

BTW the SAAMI spec lists the nominal (minimum) diameter for the chamber and the maximum is 0.002" larger. Hence the shoulder diameters for fired cases from both should be within 0.002" of each other.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 11 April 2017Reply With Quote
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Picture of Fury01
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Don't think Alf is complaining; just noting the issue and wishing it weren't there.
JASmith: The Ruger RPR is a bolt gun, not a gas gun. Looks like a gas gun but that is the modern trend for Precision rifles it seems.


"The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights."
~George Washington - 1789
 
Posts: 2135 | Location: Where God breathes life into the Amber Waves of Grain and owns the cattle on a thousand hills. | Registered: 20 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of dpcd
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Crushing cases? What does that mean?
Hard to believe, but I actually have 4 6.5 Creeds, and have built many more both bolt and gas guns. One of which is a Ruger Precision rifle.
I use Hornady dies and brass.
All my rifles close on a go gauge and do not close on a no go.
NO issues noted, ever.
True, there are tolerances allowed but I have not seen any issues. Not saying you do not have an issue.
 
Posts: 17046 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Fur01, thanks for the correction -- should have checked more closely on the RPR.

The fired case troubleshoot routine will still be the same and should be exercised.

On the face of it, it seems that the RPR chamber is a tad large at the shoulder. The measurements will give us a clue.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 11 April 2017Reply With Quote
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I have seen shoulder damage like what Alf describes. It frequently happens when the neck has not been sufficiently expanded.

It also happens when the case is a bit long and bumps something inside the sizing die.

Try measuring the length of an unfired case, and fired cases from both chambers.

Please let us know what you
8 find.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 11 April 2017Reply With Quote
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Ok, sounds like it is micrometer time here... measure shoulder diameter of unfired brass. Next, measure shoulder diameter of brass fired in each chamber. Then measure shoulder diameters of brass sized in Redding die, samples from each gun.
Here's why.. in my experience with various calibers, Redding will make the die to size, often several thou, the shoulder diameter smaller. You can feel and see this as the shoulder area is being sized. Imho, this can over work the brass, and may cause the dimpling you see on cases from the Ruger chamber.
Some years ago, I had this problem with a .222 die that was producing .223 shoulder dimensions. I called them about this and at the time they said that they did this to "guarantee" that brass sized in their die would chamber in any chamber of that caliber. I sent the die in with several fired cases, and they lapped the die out to a very good match. Later on, I encountered this problem again and they told me that the old guy who used to do this for them had retired and they no longer offered to do this. That time I just went to using an RCBS die.
A couple of years ago I encountered the same situation in a 9.3x62 die. This time I did the lapping myself with a brass lap, and as I recall I removed about .0025" of material at the shoulder and taper/blended with the rest of the body. With this done, the die just "kisses" the shoulder. Cases fit perfectly and size more easily.
So you might want to collect the measurements I mentioned and take the die to someone with some good tool and die experience to see if he can adjust the shoulder /body dimension. It might help. This condition seems peculiar to Redding dies. I haven't seen it with any other brand.


A good job is sometimes just a series of expertly fixed fark-ups.
Let's see.... is it 20 years experience or is it 1 years experience 20 times?
And I will have you know that I am not an old fart. I am a curmudgeon. A curmudgeon is an old fart with an extensive vocabulary and a really bad attitude.
 
Posts: 324 | Location: Too far north and 50 years too late | Registered: 02 February 2015Reply With Quote
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quote:
posted 16 August 2018 06:05Hide PostTry owning multiple Husqvarna 9.3x57's. At least you have an excuse with different manufacturers of barrels. I have 3 husky's and need 3 die sets! Honestly though, It sounds like your the victim of stacking tolerances not playing well with each other. I would check the headspace from base to datum line on fired cases and see if either one is out more than allowed for.


No thanks, one is enough. I got lucky and got a good one, 1929 vintage by model and serial number. Hit the wood lottery, pristine barrel, everything 100% original and a pretty good shooter.


Of everything mentioned in the first post, I would probably trust the tolerances on the Redding and Browning over the Ruger. That's just my opinion, I only have one Browning, an 1885 single shot and my Rugers are either 10/22 and I think they forgot decent tolerences there, and some #1 single shots which are pretty good.


JJK
 
Posts: 299 | Location: E. Texas, NE Louisiana | Registered: 10 September 2006Reply With Quote
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Good job! Sounded like maybe a die problem to me. Appears it was. I know Redding is well regarded for high quality equipment generally. But I don't know what makes them think that they are soooooo much more knowledgeable than the rest of the industry that they can't just stick to standard proven sizing die dimensions and tolerances which would avoid problems like this .


A good job is sometimes just a series of expertly fixed fark-ups.
Let's see.... is it 20 years experience or is it 1 years experience 20 times?
And I will have you know that I am not an old fart. I am a curmudgeon. A curmudgeon is an old fart with an extensive vocabulary and a really bad attitude.
 
Posts: 324 | Location: Too far north and 50 years too late | Registered: 02 February 2015Reply With Quote
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Outstanding!

It is ever so much better when the problem is in the dies rather than the rifle!

Much easier to fix.
 
Posts: 89 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 11 April 2017Reply With Quote
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I would have just backed the die out to fit the rifle.
 
Posts: 4962 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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My Ruger LH 6.5 Cr Moor had a out of round chamber Ruger rebarelled it with a new bolt.

Felt pen or candle smoke will help tell if you have a large chamber or chmaber issue. My rule is one seperate set of dies and brass for 1 rifle saves a lot of frustration. Have 5 different 6.5 Creedmoors chambers all slightly different. Need to reduce that number!!!


kk alaska
 
Posts: 950 | Registered: 06 February 2003Reply With Quote
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