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Francis Sell's .25-35 Tomcat
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I have dutifully Googled, but haven't been able to find a reamer print for the Tomcat, or even the similar .25-35 Ackley. What I really want to know is the "standard" leade angle per side for each of these cartridges - there's a rebore afoot. Thanks in advance for any info. you can provide.

BV
 
Posts: 82 | Location: SW FL | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With Quote
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I don't know the answer to your question. But, I have a 99 Savage 22HP that was rebored to 25/35AI. I really enjoy it and it is a deer's nightmare.
 
Posts: 65 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 02 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Hello Bill:

I bought a project gun in 25-35 Tomcat from Bill/Oregon and cast the chamber--it has a 2 1/2-degree per side lead angle, with approximately .070" freebore.

Two prints we have on file also show the lead angle at 2 1/2-degrees, one with .040" and the other with .075 freebore.

Dave Manson
 
Posts: 678 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 04 November 2007Reply With Quote
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Gentlemen, it would seem that I couldn't have asked my question in a better place!

Riflegunbuilder, I presume that your Savage has the enclosed spool magazine. Did your rifle require any adjustment to load or feed the Tomcat from the magazine? Further, could you please tell me what bullet you favor, and the COAL?

Dave, I greatly appreciate your detailed references - that is exactly what I wanted to know, and from an unimpeachable source!

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

BV
 
Posts: 82 | Location: SW FL | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With Quote
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I have two 25-35 Ackley Imp.
One is a Marlin 336, it needed no fooling with, works perfectly.
The other is a Sav 99. It was a .303 sav with a worn out barrel. The barrel was 26" half octagon to round. It looked so neat I wanted to keep it. The Late Al Straitiff , made a stepped liner for it and installed it.
I did send it to Dennis Olsen who tickled it a little inside to work perfectly.
The 99 takes a little hotter load, and with the 26" barrel really goes! IMR 4320 is my go to powder, and with my small supply of Rem 100 grn roundnose the 99 will hit 3000 fps.
 
Posts: 6836 | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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FL Bill, I have not had any feeding issues with the 22HP magazine. I have used Sierra 100gr FB pro hunter and Barnes TTSX 80 gr. I have used 4895s/2495 powders. Look at Bullberry website for some ideas. I will get you an OAL.
 
Posts: 65 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 02 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Being a fan of the 25-35 I found the Tomcat about like a factory loaded .257 or 250 Savage, only had one but decided I like the std. 25-35 better with the 117 gr. HOrnady or factory WW and Rem ammo..

One load thats a real killer in the std. 25-35 is the GS Customs 97 gr. monolithic FLAT POINT HP, its an absolute deer killer, both mule deer and whitetail, as well as pronghorn antelope at up to 250 yards..Its a caliber that deserves at least a 2.5 or 4X scope on a 99..

Never use 25-35 brass, always use 30-30 brass with this wildcat..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Good point Ray about 30-30 brass--fireforming loss on 25-35 WW was 100%; Hornady 25-35 lost 3 out of 50. Used once-fired RP 30-30 and 100 out of 100 formed OK.

Dave Manson
 
Posts: 678 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 04 November 2007Reply With Quote
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Dave, glad you are getting some use out of that Marlin with your chamber in it. Cool


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
 
Posts: 16306 | Location: Sweetwater, TX | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I sure liked reading Francis Sell back in the day.
I remember that he liked the balance on his rifles to be several inches further forward that most hunters like it and he also liked the .358 Winchester. He was the real deal.


IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class.
 
Posts: 3335 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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Brian, our late friend Alberta Canuck used to live in the Oregon Coast Range not too far from where Francis Sell lived near the logging town of Coquille, and once told me you had to drive up a narrow dirt road through head-high blackberries to get to his house. Sell developed the Tomcat with advice from friends Parker Ackley and Chick Donnelly as an improved chambering for snap-shooting Oregon blacktails in the dark timber of the coast, where he supplied vension to the logging camps early in his career.


There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t.
– John Green, author
 
Posts: 16306 | Location: Sweetwater, TX | Registered: 03 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Bill Thanks, That is interesting.


IHMSA BC Provincial Champion and Perfect 40 Score, Unlimited Category, AAA Class.
 
Posts: 3335 | Location: Kamloops, BC | Registered: 09 November 2015Reply With Quote
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I have two 25-35 both win. 94, I also have my wonder gun, a take down 99 (1920 ish) 250-3000 and it shoots 3 shots in a dime or penny, and will do that with 5 or 10 Im sure.. Ive had it for 40 years, so you know its differnt, I can't keep guns that long!! I have 3 30-30s a Savage custom 99 straight grip I bought on AR and its awesome and shoots great 1"to2" groups at 100..same for my gradads 30-30 ranger rifle, it will shoot an inch on any given day..My other 30-30 is a factory special mod 64 with a with a straight lever and saddle ring carbine action and carbine stock, shoots 2" groups regularly. These are my keepers..I love lever guns and even use them to hunt with from time to time.

I had a tomcat at one time, and liked it well enough, but sold it for some reason..Sell sure had good luck on deer with it, which is not surprising and Jack O'connors wife was deadly with scoped Rem bolt action in 25 Rem caliber and Jack wrote of her rolling a big muley at about 200 yards running as I recall..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Riflegunbuilder, did you have to modify the 99HP magazine from its original 22HP shape to get the 25-35 Imp. to feed?

Roger
 
Posts: 1031 | Location: Was NSW, now Tas Australia | Registered: 27 June 2009Reply With Quote
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The rifle was already rechambered when I bought it so I'm not a 100% sure. The rotor does not look modified at all though.
 
Posts: 65 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 02 October 2006Reply With Quote
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Thanks for that, I have a 1918 take-down 22HP that I would like to use and I was thinking of fitting it with a 25-35 barrel ( or AI/Tomcat, mainly for case life not velocity ) and completely replacing the woodwork.....putting the original barrel and timber away for prosperity.



Roger
 
Posts: 1031 | Location: Was NSW, now Tas Australia | Registered: 27 June 2009Reply With Quote
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My brother used a 22 High Power for deer, and I was impressed at how well it killed deer..BTW your rifle looks ripe fora rebore to a 25-35, and early 99s might be better off with the standard 25-35 pressure wise..My 25-35s loaded with GS customs 97 gr. HPs at 2700 fps kill as well as a factory 257 Roberts..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Unfortunately, no one down here rebores barrels. I would prefer to keep the original bits and just fit a new .257 barrel, woodwork and make the furniture to put it all together with.....and a standard 25-35's fine...... I was just thinking about case life with the improved case.

Out of curiosity, what is the average price of a rebore in the US?

Roger
 
Posts: 1031 | Location: Was NSW, now Tas Australia | Registered: 27 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Rebore last I did was $200 and I had shipping to pay as I recall, so it was all told $250 give or take..

Case life with an IMP cartridge is longer in most cases but not enough to go to the trouble involved IMO, and the cost is great as special order dies, fireforming cases etc, etc..No wildcat is a financial success...I would opt for the std 25-35 and figure on making cases from 30-30s..but ive been able to buy factory ammo from time to time and put up a good suppley of WW ammo and got a couple of big coffee cans of new WW brass..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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When I was in college I read every shotgun article by Sell printed in Gun Digest, a lot about the 3" 20. I never even realized he was also a rifleman. I do remember that he suddenly disappeared from Gun Digest, and years later I saw some discussion that there was some questions raised as to the "veracity" of his shotgun data. Not hard to believe in that time period, with about all shotgun data being guesstimated mostly.
 
Posts: 1233 | Location: Lexington, Kentucky, USA | Registered: 04 February 2003Reply With Quote
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Inasmuch as the 22 high power case is the same case as a 25-35 Win the rotor should be the same, I used to make brass by necking up my brothers 22 HP cases to 25 caliber in my 25-35 dies..

If you do an Improved version, it may take a bit of tweeking, and the best at playing with a brass rotor is Dennis Olson of Plains Mt...I know of no one else that has experience with brass rotors, most smiths shy away from them is my experience or screw them up as a matter of fact.....


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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I vaguely recall the so called problem with Sell. If my memory is correct the long string of shot produced by the 20 ga. was the whine of the experts of the day, as fake..but thats been many moons past.

Then the next thing we know all the factory guns were being offered in 20 gage 3" chambers, and folks were killing quail at 12 ga. ranges including myself, love that 20 ga. 3" gun..

Some things never change..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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