THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM WILDCAT FORUM


Moderators: Paul H
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
404 Jeffery necked down to .416 ?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
Just wondering about the idea of necking the 404 down to accept a .416 caliber bullet. No other changes to the cartridge dimensions just a simple neck down. I already know that there is zero ballistic advantage to this in the real world other than .416 bullets are a bit cheaper and easier to get over the counter. I am sure this was done by someone eons ago a hell of a lot smarter than me I just don't know the proper name of the wildcat I am asking about here.


B.O.H.I.C.A.
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Bakersfield California  | Registered: 27 November 2012Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
sure.. its been done.. and with it being done, slightly improved, and slightly rebated, we call it the RUM


#dumptrump

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 38379 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
A guy named Bo did it, and called it the ".416 Tatanka."

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=249

But not exactly a straight neck-down, so you might be more original by sticking with your original "un-improved" idea with a longer neck. Cool

"Derived from the .404 Jeffries (sic), necked down from .423 inches to .416 inches. Shoulder is moved 0.196 inches forward and the case is fire-formed in the chamber."

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I would rather go the other way, that is, improved and to 458. Was called the 460 G&A.
 
Posts: 7046 | Location: Sydney Australia | Registered: 14 September 2015Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
And the 416 Dakota.

Loaddata 416 Dakota

Rental available, too.
416 Rental
 
Posts: 188 | Location: Austin, TX | Registered: 12 July 2008Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I have a custom set of dies (RCBS) for a double rifle I built some years ago..416/450-416 or rather a 450-400-3" necked down to a .416 bullet..It was a dandy double rifle..Guy I sold it too didn't want the dies?? oh well.....

I often thought I would build a Ruger no. 1-S so the dies didn't go to waste, but so far I havn't done that and its been years.... Roll Eyes I'd sell the dies to a more serious wildcatter should any of you be interested.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I'm with Michael, with a slight change.

My OM 70 is leaned up against the wall here. Jim Kobe rescued mine and barreled in in 460G&A. A cool thing to note: if you use 375 RUM brass and mark the barrel 458/375 Ultra Magnum, you will not have issues with African customs that you would marking it 460 G&A.

Ray that sounds interesting...

Rich
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
It was a neat rifle and .416 bullets were much easier to come by in those days. The barrels were slimmer and It also penetrated a bit better and I got some additional velocity for some strange reason, probably the LW barrels I had on it. It would be awesome in a Ruger no. 1.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of boom stick
posted Hide Post
Awesome! Have thought about that approach a few times. Can you post a pic of a loaded round? Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by dpcd:
Been there, done that, and got the T shirt. I necked it down to .410, use standard .410 bullets, 450-400 dies and reamer. Chambered in a 1909 Mauser. Don't need no stinkin custom dies, etc.
This one; still needs checkering.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27589 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of eagle27
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by CHIPKING3220:
Just wondering about the idea of necking the 404 down to accept a .416 caliber bullet. No other changes to the cartridge dimensions just a simple neck down. I already know that there is zero ballistic advantage to this in the real world other than .416 bullets are a bit cheaper and easier to get over the counter. I am sure this was done by someone eons ago a hell of a lot smarter than me I just don't know the proper name of the wildcat I am asking about here.


I would have thought 416 Rigby or any other 416 case would be easier and cheaper to get than 404 Jeffery cases so what is the advantage with basing a 416 on a 404 case?
 
Posts: 3826 | Location: Nelson, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
eagle27,

start with one more round in the chamber, being able to modify a standard 98, and a standard magnum-size bolt face.

Rich
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Thank you all for the input my initial thought was that this would be a fairly easy wildcat. There is a better selection of .416 bullets than there is of .423 bullets. I don't know that better is the right word perhaps cheaper. What I was hoping for here was to duplicate .416 Remington performance at slightly lower operating pressure without having to use an over sized action that is needed to accommodate the .416 Rigby.


B.O.H.I.C.A.
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Bakersfield California  | Registered: 27 November 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of ForrestB
posted Hide Post
416 Ruger.


______________________________
"Truth is the daughter of time."
Francis Bacon
 
Posts: 5052 | Location: Muletown | Registered: 07 September 2001Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Yes and No in this case I am talking about the full length Jeffery case with no other changes than neck & bullet diameter. Full length .404 necked down to .416 would have greater case capacity than either the .416 Ruger or the .416 Remington. Assuming that all other things are equal it should operate at a slightly lower pressure to generate the same velocity with the same bullet. Not trying to be a smart ass just wondering if I am missing something here?


B.O.H.I.C.A.
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Bakersfield California  | Registered: 27 November 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 416Tanzan
posted Hide Post
With a 404/416 you would have something like a 416 "RUM", which is probably halfway between the 416 Rem/Ruger and the 416 Weatherby, which is basically the as a handloaded 416Rigby, loaded to its potential.

Do what you want, but the inexpensive way is to get a 416 Rigby CZ550 and handload to 6000-6200 ftlbs. Plenty of brass, plenty of bullets, and lots of good powders, like RL 17.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4253 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Tarzan at this point its all just theory what I am looking for here is a belt-less .416 caliber cartridge that gives 2200-2350 FPS with a 400 grain bullet at reasonable pressure levels. The other requirement is that it fits into a .375 sized action. I am just throwing the idea out there and looking for flaws in my logic. Any and all opinions are welcome here.


B.O.H.I.C.A.
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Bakersfield California  | Registered: 27 November 2012Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of 416Tanzan
posted Hide Post
You just described the 416 Rem, but if you don't insist on a long magnum action, you can use a medium standard action and just buy a 416 Ruger.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4253 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Thanks to everyone for their input at the end of the day I suppose the cheapest and most practical choice would be a Ruger guide gun in .416 Ruger or a CZ 55O in .416 Rigby if I want to go the traditional route. As far as a wildcat is concerned you guys are right a cartridge based on the RUM case is more efficient & easier. Thanks for saving me from reinventing the wheel.


B.O.H.I.C.A.
 
Posts: 49 | Location: Bakersfield California  | Registered: 27 November 2012Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Interesting stuff but the bottom line is today 404 components are actually easier to come by than .416 stuff, strange but true! although not by much....

I would prefer a 404 Jefferys any day to a .416 of any kind, but that's just me and a lifetime of shooting the 404 I guess.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41758 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia