OK back in business...

I feel like Rumpelstiltskin!

The fine machinist that made my recoil lug is now making my revised quarter rib!



Should have it in a couple of weeks!

the book gives for the .404bj express. .411 barnes bullets. 250gr. 77gr of 4198 for3017fps. 300gr bullet 85gr of 4320 for 2810fps. 400gr bullet 74gr of 4064 for 2425fps. sorry if this is a repeat havent had time to read all of post. interesting post. these are probably max loads from ackley.

The guy may not be a great photographer, but he's a heck of a machinist!

Progress:

More progress! I can't wait to get my hands on it, polish it up a little, and take better pictures!

I was looking back through this entire thread and decided to re-calculate a load that was hinted at by RIP using RL-17...



I do not need a load like this but its nice to know it seems possible.

Well I wasn't too crazy about the look of the QRib so I redesigned it - I just wasn't crazy about the bottom of the thing following the barrel contour, so this awesome machinist doing this work made a rapid prototype 3D printed part of the revised QRib for me to check out before he machines another one! (not the greatest photos but all I had was my iPhone - my DSLR is still in a box, but it wont be for long!):

As usual, it fits perfect!





Oh ya, I added more screws in case someone overloads the thing and tries to hunt Buff with it after I am dead...



And this is what the front sight will look like:

Better photos:



Gonna be badass...

My revised Quarter Rib fresh off the milling machine.

Puuuurrrrfect!

Just delivered!

Now for some fitting and polishing!

Barrel slugged and 3-fireformed cases boxed and ready to mail to Hornady Monday AM!

UPDATE: Sent!

Now for the NEXT long wait!

RIP, are you still reading this?

I just gave Ben Syring my credit card info so my dies will be here in (are you ready for this?), 16 to 20-weeks!

Now I know I have lots of time to think about this but, what do you recommend I will need, in addition to my Hornady custom dies, to be able to size my basic brass to this 404 EXP FNB? Do I need another intermediate size die or will I be able to size with the Hornady custom die?

Also, will I have to anneal the basic brass after the first time I get it sized to 404 EXP FNB?

Remember, I'm still a new guy!

Thank you,

Hi Karl,

I am still alive, you too, eh? Good!

You got it licked now, just waiting, shocking how long it takes for some things like custom dies, but worth the wait.

Stick to the same make of brass you sent to Ben Syring at Hornady. Hornady basic?
Hopefully that will make sure you don't have to do inside neck reaming or outside neck turning.
Other brass might work fine too.

But first stick with the Hornady basic cylindrical brass.

No dies needed other than your Hornady Custom 404 EXP FNB.
Cut off the cylindrical brass to 2.580" long, lube it, and just run it into the Hornady custom die.
That should be all you have to do.

You might have to experiment with how long to make the cylindrical brass for that first sizing, to get it close to 2.570" to 2.580" after the initial pass through the die.

Anneal it after that initial necking down from cylindrical.
Trim it to 2.570".
Load it. Fire-form it.
Done.

Just be sure the case mouths are uniformed to round before you neck them down.

Here may be the only need for some die other than your Hornady Custom.
Just a tapered neck expander big enough to round-out the case mouth of a cut-off piece of your cylindrical basic,
if it gets squashed somehow along the way.

Necking down a squashed or dented case mouth may cause the neck to wrinkle or fold when necking down.
That is what happens when making 40-65 cases from 45-70 cases, which I learned in BPCR reloading.

Thanks, Rip. If it weren't for you I would never be this close to getting this rifle working. I owe you.

I will see if I can find a few annealing vids and see what I can learn - I don't want to melt my cases!

The brass I sent to Ben Syring is the brass you made for me! I haven't touched the Hornady basic brass I bought sometime after you sent me yours.

So waddaya think of my homemade quarter rib and front sight base?

quote:

Originally posted by Quick Karl:

So waddaya think of my homemade quarter rib and front sight base?

It looks ideal.

Shooting your pet wildcat will be a rewarding thing, considering all you have been through to gitterdun.

"There is iron in your words of endeavoring to persevere." - Ten Bears

"Always follow your heart, always give thanks, and always show respect to others." - Native American proverb

Karl/Rip:

I've spent the last couple nights reading thru all this. Very interesting read. I think Karl could have had a much easier, shorter time of it all it if he hadn't been so afraid to just go ahead and do as Rip was trying to get him to do. Yeah, I've been that way afew times too.
Better to be safe than sorry sometimes. Playing with dynamite and guns can get a person into trouble at times.

Beautiful work by your contact. Glad you've got this thing going. Only thing I see lacking now is pictures of the fireformed cases you sent to Hornady.

Take care guys, this was great!
George

Got the email from Hornady - dies are on the way!

You'll be rolling your own in no time.

I can't wait, RIP! I am sending the rifle to be blued next week so it wont be long now.

A LEUPOLD VX-2 1.5-4x28 IER Scout Scope is on the way!

It will be fun to work up a load and post some targets!

The three fire-formed cases I sent to Hornady with a dummy round made up of a fire-formed case and a Woodleigh 400g 405-Winchester bullet with 1-wrap of Scotch tape to make it snug in the case -- and a 45-70 for scale reference...

Now I have to figure out how to trim those fire-formed cases (and my basic brass) before I start sizing. My Wilson case trimmer requires a case-holder so this is going to be a trick...

Thanks again for everything, RIP - you are THE Man.

Wilson just needs two sized cases and a check for $27.25 so that will go out Monday!

And... I just ordered 5-lbs of RL15 RL17 (I was too excited and typing too fast RL17 is what I ordered) from my secret source...



I know that the .411" diameter 400g 450-400 Nitro Express bullets I have for this rifle will probably not hold together on game at 2400 FPS (I think the Woodleigh box says 2200F FPS max - still a good load), but they will make good water jug loads, and I want to see what a 5000 ft.-lb. load feels like.

Ultimately I will probably find a lighter bullet that is a little friendlier to shoot, that can hold together.

PS. RIP

I finally dug my 10,000ths mic out of storage and measured my bore slug...

.4115 groove!

A little bit closer to .411 than the .412 I first measured with calipers, so a slightly better fit with .411 diameter bullets, even though you smacked me in the head to let me know that .001 undersized bullet will work just fine

QK:

Excellent!
Loaded for bear!
Loaded for anything.

RIP,

Have you ever heard of Hawk Precision Bullets?

They list a .411 diameter 400g bullet with jacket thicknesses of .025" .035" and .050".

I wondered what you might think about them?

Hawk bullets?
Yes, familiar with them. Never had any use for them.
Soft copper jacket and soft lead core, not bonded.
I would expect them to slug up and obturate very well, to the point of raising pressures through greater bearing surface of sticky-soft copper.
For hunting, I would only use them for low velocity loads of about 2100 fps with 400-grainer, even with their thickest jacket.
Woodleigh .411 or Hornady .410 or .411 bullets would be preferred by me.
And the Barnes .411/300-grainer is great.
You ought to easily do +2700 fps with the 300-grainer, for African sheep hunting.
You could get a good mould and make your own cast lead bullets +.001" over your groove diameter.
There is some fun if you have the spare time.
I have not done that in .411 caliber, but Rusty McGee, my Gunsmith, makes some excellent 350-grainers, gas-checked.
400-grainer for plinking, deer, and hogs would be great, IMHO.

Duly noted!

I was actually looking at a custom mold from Accurate Molds - a hard lead 400g gas check with a nice meplat would be nice...

I dug Ye Ole Rockchucker out of storage and re-sized your brass - very nice! I have to go back and get the box of cylindrical brass because I had to check my spreadsheet to see what the heck box it is in (old age requires spread sheets for moving).

It is nice having a die designed for the actual chamber that sized the brass, for that chamber!

I'm sending off for Wilson case holder this week.

Getting closer...

Sent for bluing!

OK - Wilson case older arrived today and RIP's cases are all sized and trimmed and ready to be loaded...

But, what is a good way to rough-trim all that basic brass before full length sizing it, and without crushing it, without having a real workshop to work in?

Karl,
Just like I said on page 2 of this thread:

"The RotoZip tool makes a great brass trimmer too. If you want to trim off 0.300" of a brass case, first cut 0.25" of it off with the RotoZip tool and then finish with precision trimmer.
The RotoZip goes through brass like a hot knife through butter."

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/6301048391/p/2

Don't laugh.
This is what I used to make your beautiful cases:



Just cut that cylindrical brass off at max finished brass length. The Roto-Zip tool is better than using a Dremel tool.
The bigger cutting wheels are faster and last longer. Zip zip.

After the rough cut, you size it, giving it body taper and necking it down. It then grows enough to allow cleaning up the case mouth square and uniform.

I have my crude tools and my usual smalltime handloader precision tools, nothing fancy here.

Rip

I went back and looked after I made that last post and then tried to find a rototool like yours at Amazon but no dice!

I will look again, maybe I missed something all I saw were kits of stuff!

I might just get a DeWalt angle grinder and get grinding!

My New case rough-trimmer and my first case, formed and trimmed!



I owe you a steak, RIP!

I ordered some 750-degree Tempilaq to use for my FNG neck-annealing exercise... at least until I can develop some experience.

I will hold each case in a 9/16" deep-socket and spin over the flame with a cordless drill until the color change and then dump into a pail of water.

Sound about right?

RIP on the left -- Quick Karl's first 20 on the right!



Now into the case tumbler so they are nice and shiny, then anneal (Tempilaq arriving today), and they will look like factory cases!

Soon, I will be able to say, "I, am a Wildcatter"

Professor Rip,

If I understand correctly, I start working up loads at 10% below what QuickLoad tells me for a given load?

Thank you.

Hey Karl,
I tried the Tempilaq a few times, then learned to watch for the blush of color change on the brass, glowing red is too much. Leave the lights on bright and watch the brass color change as the tempilaq changes and soon you won't need the tempilaq.

Your brass looks great.

That is a good idea, starting 10% below the max QuickLOAD prediction, chronograph and see how close it is. Work up to desired.

Or pick the 50,000 psi load to start with ...
fun fun fun

Hey Rip,

I think I did good with the annealing -- I saw the color blush right off and the Tempilaq change quickly thereafter, so at least now I have a visual picture of what is going on! I didn't get any case anywhere near glowing red and no color change much past the shoulder.

I will take your advice on the 50K psi load and chrono - I need a new chrono anyways :P I have a an Shooting Chrony Gamma Master but have never been 100% happy with it - its kinda quirky sometimes...

Can't wait! The only thing I can say that I wish, is that we lived close enough to each other to go shoot it together as soon as it gets back from bluing!

This is how I am going to load your 10-cases (I just HAVE to get some 400g bullets down that barrel ):


Because I just happen to have lots of Varget laying around, and it looks like it will work for the 50K target.

And, I will revert to the original fire forming load with 300g Hornadys to fire form my 20-new cases.

Just killin' time waiting for my rifle...

RIP,

What cannelure tool do you use?

Just back from vacation, catching up on the thread, Varget should be great.

An excellent canneluring tool is the one from CH4D: From the past ...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...761027491#6761027491

Ye Olde Barnes Original .510/600-grain RNSP lacks a cannelure from factory.
Easy to fix with the CH4D "cantool."







Some 500 Bateleur brass 2.700" max, trim to 2.690" minimum brass length.
Also 400 Whelen Berry brass 2.494" max, trim to 2.484" minimum brass length.
I am still perfecting my annealing.
These are ready to load and fire:





Just half a dozen turns of the crank with firm pressure on the black ball:
The cannelure is perfectly placed to have full contact between neck and bearing surface of this bullet in the 500 Bateleur.
The bevel on the bottom of the bullet lines up right at neck-1 juncture with shoulder,
when crimped in middle of CH4D cannelure.