I know that the WSM line of cases was developed from the 404 case. I am wondering what cases have also been developed from the 404 case that are 30.06 length?

Look at the Accrel or Accurate Reloading cartridges
all of Michael458,s cartridges
WSSM
SAUM
Dakota cartridges
Ultra Mag cartridges
many more.

30.06 length

Some Dakota cartridges are built on the 404 Jeffery case, and are 30-06 (standard) length.

There is the shorter version of the 460 G&A. the 450 G&A
450 Vincent?
http://cartridgecollector.net/450-g-short-magnum

This is a good resource

The reason that I ask is because there are so many standard 30-06 sized actions. I would think that after people saw the success of the WSM short magnums they would have started to play around with a little bit longer case for all of those 30-06 length actions.

i designed the accrels to all be 30-06 length -
details in my sig

The WSM line are limited by the short mag length so the easy thing are to just stick the bullets out a bit longer in a standard lenght action. It is also the reason Winchester choose 8mm instead of .338 for the .325wsm the cartridge were limited by bullet length.

Built a 7mm WSL with longer throat. Worked well for 160-180 grain. Wondering if more freebore would profit the 325 WSM.

If I was going to return to wildcatting today with big bores, Id use the 375 Ruger case..

WSM case is off of the old 348 Win case, a rimless version instead of rimmed. Note the matching .555 case head diameter. The 404 was the base for Remington's Ultramag line of cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by Kolo-Pan:
I know that the WSM line of cases was developed from the 404 case. I am wondering what cases have also been developed from the 404 case that are 30.06 length?

Seems it may be a common misnomer that the WSM cartridge line are based on the 404 Jeffery case.

I have rifles in both 404J and 7mm WSM and indeed the 404J case (RWS, Hornady and Kynoch brands as samples) has a base of .545" whereas the WSM case has a base of .555", the same .555" diameter as the rimmed 348 Win as iterated by CMcDermott in his post.

I don't imagine you could grow the base of 404J cases .010" to make WSM cases. Maybe the concept was to make rimless bottle neck WSM cases with a base size close to the 404J case, whether this was enough to claim the WSM cartridges are based on the 404J case who knows.
Anyway my #26 RCBS case holder takes cases for the 404J, WSM, standard belted magnum and even the 455 Webley.

quote:

Originally posted by CMcDermott:
WSM case is off of the old 348 Win case, a rimless version instead of rimmed. Note the matching .555 case head diameter. The 404 was the base for Remington's Ultramag line of cartridges.

The Dakota and Imperial Magnums we’re based on the 404 J.

There are a couple of 35 wildcats based off the 404 J.

This is an interesting thread in that, having made chambering reamers and gauges since 1980, I worked with many of the cartridge developers mentioned.

During the time I managed Clymer, Art Alphin contracted with Dakota Arms to develop their line of cartridges. Around the same time, Aubrey White came to us for tooling for his line of Canadian (Imperial) Magnums.

Both the Dakota and Canadian cartridges are based on the Jeffery, except for the largest bores, which were variations on the Rigby.

Let's not forget John Lazzeroni, most of whose cartridges were also based on the 404.

Anyone who remembers Rick Jamison's successful patent infringement suit against Winchester, Browning, et al, knows that he originated the "short, fat" case concept. This concept applied to calibers larger than 6mm because the PPC and BR had already staked out short, fat smaller bores.

Rick's first attempt was in 30-cal, utilizing the 425 Westly-Richards case because its radical rim rebate would work with 308-size bolts. He soon discovered that the unsupported case head couldn't handle the pressures needed to reach his velocity goals. Rick's patent covered a specific range of case diameter-to-length ratios, as well as a steep shoulder angle, which supposedly enhanced performance.

When Winchester pirated his design, they changed rim diameter to fit the standard magnum bolt face, and increased the base case diameter slightly to afford greater capacity in a mildly-rebated case that (wisely) fit standard bolt faces.

I was deposed during the lawsuit and asked to supply examples of cartridges made in the past that represented "prior art". There had been a number of wildcats based on the 348 case--both rimmed and rimless--made before his patent application, but it was determined that none of these were sufficiently close to Jamison's design parameters to invalidate his claims.

The Patent Office apparently feels that the 348 Win case was not a precursor of the WSMs, but it's damned close, and likely provided encouragement to wildcatters many years before Rick did his thing.

Remington introduced their RUM line before Winchester presented their WSMs, but length-to-diameter ratios of the RUMs didn't fall within patent parameters. Not having worked with Remington on the Rums, I can't speak to their design process. It does seem, however, that they adopted the general concept of the Jeffery, reduced rim diameter to fit a std "belted" bolt face, and enlarged the case base slightly to increase capacity. Further, they gave it 30-degree shoulder to improve headspacing (a bugaboo of the Jefferey case), and slightly reduced body taper to a more modern degree.

Once designs for the above series were established, wildcatters began changing lengths, shoulder angles--all of the changes that can be done with a new concept. And, we're the richer for it.

Dave Manson