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Options for a .223 based cartridge for whitetails
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I’m looking to rebarrel a CZ527 in .223 to something that would be a good performer on whitetails.
What are some options?
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Mountains of Virginia | Registered: 09 January 2005Reply With Quote
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25-45 Sharps

https://www.srcarms.com/


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

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Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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fast twist, heavy bullet 223 would be my go to if rebarreling ..

BUT, i'd check a couple things.
if it's a late production, post-2002, it likely has a 1:9 twist

so, i would try a barnes TSX, (not ttsx) 62gr and see how the rifle likes it ...

when i broke my shoulder and ribs, I used this bullet in my handirifle (shooting left handed) for a season .. while it didn't have the knockdown of a 458 Accrel, it most certainly did the job .. from cottontails to boars, no lost animals .. no recovered bullets either ...

run em on the warm side, btw

but, if i where to rebarrel to something else, it would be a 300 blackout .. ammo at walmart, well known, etc...

want to get REAL? 458 socom .. though likely too much of a good thing, it would require a little more gunsmithing, but it's a slayer

nah, i'd just start with 62gr tsx, see if the rile likes it, and call it good if it did...

and rather than put $600-800 into a barrel and blue, i'd trade it off for the same rifle in 7,62x39 rather than spend any real time on it even if it costs $100 or 2 for the swap


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34545 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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If your hunting regulations allow the 22 caliber for deer, a heavier/premium bullet in the 223 would be the most inexpensive choice. ( already mentioned above )

Also mentioned is the 25-45 Sharps, and there is a 6mm x 223 ( older wildcat ) but probably not receiving the recent press of the more current Sharps

Then there is any of the TCU cartridges. Although originally developed for the TC Contender for shooting steel and hunting, they had a whole line of cartridges based on the 223 improved, that would fit well into the CZ action. Dies are somewhat common but are all handloading propositions as with many other 223 variants, the only exception would be the Sharps as it may enjoy some boutique loadings.
 
Posts: 150 | Registered: 17 July 2005Reply With Quote
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oh, i had another thought -- you might could have the barrel rebored to .308, have a 300 acc blackout, and be done, fairly cheap ...

but, yeah, I'd try the heavier 223 bullets and then consider a 7,62 ..


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34545 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Virginia doesn't allow .22 caliber for deer. So far leaning toward 25-45, one of the TCU's, or the Blackout.

Still trying to gather all my options. So keep'em comin' guys!
 
Posts: 190 | Location: Mountains of Virginia | Registered: 09 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Always thought the TCUs were cool. They should do the trick.
 
Posts: 6425 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Economy of scale
to go 25-45, all you need is a new barrel.
If you don’t like it, sell the barrel and go crazy in a different cart that may need mucho investmento


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Ken in VA:
Virginia doesn't allow .22 caliber for deer. So far leaning toward 25-45, one of the TCU's, or the Blackout.

Still trying to gather all my options. So keep'em comin' guys!


I reckon you didn’t know that VA deer are tougher than the ones in all our surrounding states? Just ask DGIF. If I recall correctly ALL of our border states allow 223’s. But don’t worry, you can use an inferior 6x45 and be “legal”.

It’s friggin stupid....

I’d be all over 62 TSX in VA, if I could...
 
Posts: 634 | Registered: 08 February 2010Reply With Quote
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I have a .25 TCU and get 3000 fps with 75 gr Sierra bullets that work fine on coastal blacktails. The "improved" TCU doesn't have a lot of shoulder so won't make much difference over just necking up the .223 case to .257.
 
Posts: 161 | Location: Seattle - temporarily! | Registered: 04 September 2000Reply With Quote
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the 6 or 7mm neckup would easily do the job.
I think the 7 still holds some shooting records all these years later.
 
Posts: 2971 | Location: soda springs,id | Registered: 02 April 2008Reply With Quote
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the .25-.223 with the neck cut back is probably a better way to go. The 25-45 sharps was designed around shooting bullets less then 90gr. Anything 100gr or over is generally too long to fit into the case and still be within the length requirement.


"though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression."

---Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 993 | Location: Eau Claire, WI | Registered: 20 January 2011Reply With Quote
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My idea a while back to get over this issue was to do a 25-222 rem with the neck shortened a bit.

quote:
Originally posted by thecanadian:
the .25-.223 with the neck cut back is probably a better way to go. The 25-45 sharps was designed around shooting bullets less then 90gr. Anything 100gr or over is generally too long to fit into the case and still be within the length requirement.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Given the magazine constraints of a 527 (~2.340") I'd go with a fatter/shorter case since the heavier, pointier bullets will be seated deeper in the case, robbing the capacity and moving the projectile farther from the lands. 527s come from the factory in 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 300 Blackout. Just buying a replacement rifle might be less expensive than re-barreling.

However, if you were to re-barrel and existing 527, just because, I'd look into 6mm PPC with suitable twist. Highly accurate, very efficient, short case with decent capacity and will work with factory mags. Light projectiles (55gr at 3500fps) will tear up varmints and heavier projectiles (95gr at 3000fps) will easily take care of deer at reasonable ranges.

If you're set on a "wildcat" then the 6mm AR, 6mm Grendel, .357 Max Rimless (.223 necked up), .350 Legend... Tons of options.
 
Posts: 775 | Registered: 13 November 2008Reply With Quote
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CZ now offers the 527 in 6.5 Grendel as a factory caliber. Great solution if you want to keep the 223.
 
Posts: 150 | Registered: 17 July 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by kaytod:
CZ now offers the 527 in 6.5 Grendel as a factory caliber. Great solution if you want to keep the 223.


Pound per pound, that is an awesome potent package.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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30/223

We have made one, and it shoots great.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
Posts: 51682 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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I have been happy with the 6.5mm TCU in a 10" Contender barrel on pronghorns. I use the 129 gr. Speer. It should be even better in a rifle. I have not used a 7mm TCU but it might be even better than the 6.5 mm.
 
Posts: 552 | Registered: 03 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I want to some day make a 223 straight case to 348. 250s for thumpers on 2 and 4 legged pigs and squished down 9mm and 35 bullets for supersonic for plinking and small critters.

New wildcat!
348 Thumper!

Use 350 legend mags.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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it's called a 9mm magnum :-) oups.. maybe too short
 
Posts: 4837 | Location: NY, NY | Registered: 28 November 2005Reply With Quote
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The as of yet vaporware 348-223 or 348 Thumper case would be about 1.71” long (like the 350 legend) to use the canalure on nominal 348 bullets and have a 2.26” oal to match the 223 oal.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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257 Bobcat.......
 
Posts: 288 | Location: South Central PA | Registered: 11 November 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 257x50:
257 Bobcat.......


I like the cut of your jib tu2

257 Bobcat AKA 257-22 Nosler.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
quote:
Originally posted by 257x50:
257 Bobcat.......


I like the cut of your jib tu2

257 Bobcat AKA 257-22 Nosler.


The moment I saw the 22 nosler......QUARTERBORE!!

Before that I was looking at a CZ 527 7.62x39 action for the bolt face so I could use 6.5x54MS brass to get a longer chunk of brass.
And a nicer headstamp.....
For just such a wildcat. 257x50.....I was going to use 5.6x50 brass for the volume a while ago.

See what will fit in the action.
A Hornet in a Model 70 seems a waste.
I built 5 shot Blackhawks for a couple of years. Same thing

So I have a couple of CZ 527 rifles and an extra Royal stock so an Off hand rifle.
And see how long I can open the action for OAL .....don’t care about AR functioning length
I’ll make a magazine if necessary for length
Then when I retire in a couple of months......a blind magazine.
And I like the name!
Thanks for that.

The Mini Mauser came in 22-250. And the lugs are shorter and smaller diameter than the 527.

And the mini Mauser has a coarse thread of a smaller diameter than the fine thread 527. It’s almost an inch!! Lots of meat.
A .473 base with a rebated rim to .440?
Next project.......
 
Posts: 288 | Location: South Central PA | Registered: 11 November 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 257x50:
quote:
Originally posted by boom stick:
quote:
Originally posted by 257x50:
257 Bobcat.......


I like the cut of your jib tu2

257 Bobcat AKA 257-22 Nosler.


She’s yar.......

The moment I saw the 22 nosler......QUARTERBORE!!

Before that I was looking at a CZ 527 7.62x39 action for the bolt face so I could use 6.5x54MS brass to get a longer chunk of brass.
And a nicer headstamp.....
For just such a wildcat. 257x50.....I was going to use 5.6x50 brass for the volume a while ago.

See what will fit in the action.
A Hornet in a Model 70 seems a waste.
I built 5 shot Blackhawks for a couple of years. Same thing

So I have a couple of CZ 527 rifles and an extra Royal stock so an Off hand rifle.
And see how long I can open the action for OAL .....don’t care about AR functioning length
I’ll make a magazine if necessary for length
Then when I retire in a couple of months......a blind magazine.
And I like the name!
Thanks for that.

The Mini Mauser came in 22-250. And the lugs are shorter and smaller diameter than the 527.

And the mini Mauser has a coarse thread of a smaller diameter than the fine thread 527. It’s almost an inch!! Lots of meat.
A .473 base with a rebated rim to .440?
Next project.......
 
Posts: 288 | Location: South Central PA | Registered: 11 November 2010Reply With Quote
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.257x30 rem - cut to length -- should go right on the x39 boltface


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34545 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1021510326
Interestingly enough... Quality Cartridge makes 25 rem brass that you can buy right now. I wonder how strong the brass is? Maybe a short neck version to “Crowbar” in a 527.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Sounds like a perfect example for the 350 Legend. If I were considering a little more oomph then the 223, and for VA where .224 caliber is illegal, I'd just go to the 6x45. No changes at all to the rifle except the barrel. Easy to form brass just resize them in a 6.45 sizer die. I have one on an AR15 and it's awesomely accurate and hits harder then a 223. Cheap brass too! An old wildcat, but a very good one.

If you go to a larger case head diameter you will have to change the bolt or open your bolt face up.

The 6.5 Grendel is a good round and more powerful and shoots out to very far yardage. You'd be better to just trade up to it then make your existing rifle one.
 
Posts: 506 | Registered: 15 May 2018Reply With Quote
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a 257 on the 22 Nosler AKA 257 Bobcat being the same rim would mean a new mag and barrel and that’s about it. Not bad for 250-3000 performance.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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7mm TCU. 120 grain bullet at 2600 fps.
 
Posts: 364 | Registered: 13 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I really like my 6x45, CUSTOM SAKO L-461..I shoot the 75 gr. GS Customs and Barnes bullets (Barnes discontinued) for deer and antelope and varmints..My kids and grandkids like it too..one of the few I,ve never Considered selling and have been offered a lot of money for it, its paid for itself in turkeys and hams! tu2

I feel the 223 case is too small for any caliber over 257, just doesn't have the powder capacity to suit me..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36260 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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A fun idea and max boom boom on the .380” rim would be a 375-22 Nosler! 375 Valhalla! easier to put an extractor groove on 30-30 brass or use 30 Rem brass to 1.76”


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Regarding the 375 Valhalla, it looks like the closest thing that already exist is the 375 SuperMag (A rimmed case formed from 30-30 brass) which is 1.6 inches long so if you just want to have a 1.6 inch case and also have the ability to load pointy bullets the 1.6 inch version of the 375 Valhalla will work and make the hogs holler. Dies and reamer are already available... just need to open up some 22 Nosler cases or rebate the rim on a similar case. That is a big power swap from a 223.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
"Bubba" by the grace of God.

Four legs good! Two legs baa-d!

E Pluribus Popularem et Republican (Out of many, Democrat and Republican)

“We hold these truths to be self-evident. All men and women created … by the — you know — you know the thing.”

Joe Biden.
 
Posts: 26123 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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