quote:

80 gr TTSX leaving the muzzle of my 1885 Browning @3997 fps.

What does this have to do with a 405 Grenadier?

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:
So is this pretty much a 416 Barnes except in .411? Or am I missing something?

. Yes, you're missing it. The 405 Grenadier is based on the 7.62x54R Russian case. That case offers advantages over using either the 45-70 case or the 444 Marlin case. Also, it is designed to shoot short .405 Win bullets (for lever action use) suitable for non-magnum velocities. How many flat /round nose 300gr bullets designed for 2000fps muzzle velocity are available in .416 caliber?

Take the great 7.62x54R case, blow it out a smidge, and add a bullet designed for the 405 Winchester.

quote:

Yes, you're missing it. The 405 Grenadier is based on the 7.62x54R Russian case

Thanks. For some reason I saw your first picture with the 45-70 took that as the parent and evidently skipped over the 54 russian reference. Must have been seeing what I wanted to see.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Grendadier
I'm working on making a battery of Winchester 95 rifles in various calibers. Right now I have 405 Winchester, a 30-06 and one under way becoming 375 Whelen. Next I'm thinking of a 7.62X54 Russian since that caliber was what most 95s were made for.
My grandsons, stocky fellows that they are may wonder what form of masochist Granddad was, when they get the rifles.

Jim

.......just a question on your Marlin rifle....what weight is it?? and whats the recoil like with your 300gr 405G loads ??

My thoughts are that if its reasonably comfortable to fire out of a relatively light gun like the Marlin ,then one could make a fairly light weight,heavy calibre rifle using this cartridge.

Roger

Roger,

It weighs what a regular Marlin 1895 would weigh except for the extra 4" barrel length. The .45-70 barrel that came off is 18-1/2" overall and the .405 Grenadier barrel is 22-1/2" overall. The load I have been shooting, 300gr Hornady @ 1955fps, is gentle as a pussycat in this rifle and recoil is noticeably less than with the 300gr .45-70 factory loads. The 1955fps load would be a very good choice for a lightweight big bore.

I have some different bullets to try and some more powders on the way.

Have you given cast boolits any thought? They should be fun.

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Have you given cast boolits any thought? They should be fun.

I have some 430gr paper-patched lead bullets to try out when the powders arrive. Should be next week.

Whats the reason for going to the trouble to paper patch?

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Whats the reason for going to the trouble to paper patch?

I got the bullets to try out in a 400H&H. I thought I would see how they work out in the .405 Grenadier. The bullets are pure lead and have been sized. They have no grease grooves. The paper will allow me to shoot them at fairly high velocity without leading the bore. It was no trouble for me to wrap paper on them because I purchased them sized and wrapped. I don't cast and I don't have a bullet sizer. I just thought I would try a little lead to see how it shoots.

Thats a good reason. Interested to see how it turns out.

Grenadier, where are you getting boxer primed brass? Seems like all the surplus I have seen for sale has been berdan primed steel...

Grenadier,
are there any updates on this?

quote:

Originally posted by johnnyreb:
Grenadier, where are you getting boxer primed brass? Seems like all the surplus I have seen for sale has been berdan primed steel...

I was using Winchester brass 7.62x54R ammunition but those disappeared. The only thing I can find from Winchester these days is steel cases. Just for fun I tried fire forming a few. Every single one split wide open the length of the neck.

I am now fire forming brass from Prvi Partizan ammunition. It works great. I have reloaded some four times.

It was about time for me to get busy with the Marlin again.
So, after gathering all the stuff, and replacing a broken chronograph, here are several loads I worked up for the .405 Grenadier in the Marlin 1895.

The primers were standard Federal Large Rifle.
Brass was fire formed from Prvi Partizan 7.62.54R ammunition.
Bullets were seated on the cannelure with the exception of the Woodleighs.

Here is an interesting comparison:

Is it possible to use the same parent case to make a straight walled .458" pistol round? Could be lots of fun. 458 Grenade? Lol

Well, you could, but you couldn't do anything better than the .460 S&W Magnum and .454 Casull haven't already already done better. Then you'd still have that big rim to deal with.

I guess if you already had a 45-70 and loved the wide range of bullets for the 45-70 it could be interesting. Perhaps turn the rims down if needed.

Hmm, neat!

So it is kind of a shorter version of the 450/400 NE 2.5 or 10.3x60R. I think the case length of the 10.3x60R Swiss is 2.36ish inches.

Yours looks a skosh shorter, if it's not the same.

Case length is same as the 7.62x54R - 2.1"

Overall cartridge length must be 2.6" or less to cycle through the Marlin lever rifle. For bolt rifles the cartridge length can go over 3.0". However, with most big bullets loaded to the cannelure the overall length ends up around 2.8".

Did you ever get around to trying out 4198, or perhaps an even more ideal powder? Just curious.

I haven't tried IMR 4198 but it should be another good powder for this, so would Reloader 10X. Alliant AR-Comp was giving me some great results in the Mosin-Nagant where I could load the bigger bullets. I'll be wringing out some loads for that in the next week or two.

I ginned up a comparison of energies at 100 yards. The .45-70 Level 2 load is the Remington 405gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of 1750fps.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Just curious. I wonder what the velocity is of the 7.62 Russian round out of the Marlin???

I chronographed some in the 500-700fps range, depending on brand of ammo and load. That's not impressive for the 7.62x54R but still potentially deadly and more good reason to make sure all fire forming rounds are shot in a safe direction.

Such a great project, Gren.

Any desire for a 35 Grenadier?

I've already been considering it. I think I have something better in mind but you can't make me talk.

I think a higher power 35 for the Marlin could be the knees of bees.

Photobucket crapped out. Here are some of the pictures that went dark. These are from Flickr.




.45-70, .405 Grenadier, and the 300gr bullets they each shoot.


.458 Sierra
Dia = .458"
Wt. = 300gr
BC = .145
SD = .204


.405 Hornady
Dia = .411
Wt. = 300gr
BC = .215
SD = .251


Left to right - .45-70 case, 7.62x54R cartridge, .405 Grenadier cartridge, .405 Grenadier case:











Published factory muzzle velocities for .444 and .45-70 are based on velocities from 24" or 26" "test" barrels.
Therefore, all muzzle velocities used for the below cartridges have been "normalized" for a 22" barrel.

Do you have a dimensional case drawing available?

Yes, on another computer. I won't be able to get it for a few days but I'll try to remember and get it uploaded. I have the reamer drawing as well. Reamers are listed on the Pacific Tool and Guage website - http://pacifictoolandgauge.com...renadier-reamer.html .

Very cool. Thanks for making this "open source".