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270-308 Ackley Imp
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Started out wanting to build a 270-257 rob ackley Imp but couldn't find any dies. Did find a set of 270-308 Ackley Imp 40 deg dies at CH4D so we went that way.Rifle came back from the gunsmith last week and we put a scope on it and started loading some test loads to fireform. Made it to the range this morning and got the scope zeroed in. Started with some 130 gr Hornady's because I have a good supply of them. Tried some 4320 and 4350. 4350 is a little too bulky for fireforming loads. Loads are compressed before I get close to max. Will try 4350 again with fireformed cases. May also try some W760 or H414. 4320 and 130 gr bullets are grouping just under 1 inch @ 100 yds with fireforming loads. Want to try 110 gr Barnes TTSX bullets as well.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Is that similar to the 270 Redding?
Cheers Malcolm
 
Posts: 108 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 September 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by malcolm:
Is that similar to the 270 Redding?
Cheers Malcolm


Yes it is. I believe the 270 Redding is just the 308 necked down to .277. Mine is the Ackley improved version. There is also another version that is the 300 Sav necked to .277,that was somewhat popular in the Sav 99 rifles
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Dennis Olson, Plains, Montana will change the 257 Ackley dies to a 270/257 Ackley for $35. last time he did a wildcat for me,using your die. They worked like a charm on the ones he has done for me..In your case all he has to do is open the neck to .277....As I recall he softens the metal, makes the cuts, and hardens the metal..In some cases he may not need to soften the metal Im told.

Have you considered a 7-08, 277 to 284 is basically the same thing.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Ray I have 7mm-08 and a 284. Both very good cartridges. Had this new 270 barrel laying around and wanted to try something different. Would have liked the 270/257 ackley imp but couldn't locate dies. Found a set of 270/308 Ackley imp so I went that way. Cheap 308 brass. Does it do anything the 7mm08 can't ?? It shoots 130 gr bullets at the same speed a 270 Win out of a short action rifle that weighs about 2 lbs less than most 270 Win. So that makes a pretty good little deer rifle. About what a 7-08 will do.But I'm having fun loading and shooting it.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Its either been too hot or raining to go to the range. Finally made it back with another round of test loads. Fireforming 308 brass. Fireforming 41 grs of IMR 4064 and 130 gr Hornady's. Getting 3/4 in groups @ 100 yds. 4320 not quite as accurate. 1 1/4 in groups. Tried 4064 with the 110 gr Barnes TTSX bullets. 43 grs of 4064 is shooting 1/2 in groups. POI with the 110 and 130 gr loads very close to same point. May have to try this rifle in deer season this year
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Making a new cartridge + trying to pique a bit more of performance than what we had before is my meat + potatoes (regardless of the cost). because I find it an area of interest. Just like my love of photography except that now I can't get film for my
Nikon's or a place to develop them. Point being that we all have our interests + are willing to spend on our "hobbies". + there is NOTHING wrong with that.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12486 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Having fun with a wildcat is all part of the enjoyment of wildcatting and usually the only justification... rotflmo


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Yours should be a necked down version of Layne Simpson's 7mm SGLC. Lighter bullets, it like WW 785, [I miss that powder], MRP and IMR 4350. in Wildcat Cartridges by Wolfe.
Enjoy your little boomer!


Get Close and Wack'em Hard
 
Posts: 285 | Registered: 15 March 2004Reply With Quote
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So far IMR 4350 and RL 19 are the best powders with 130 gr bullets. Working with RL 17 and the 110 gr Barnes TTSX.So far no really bad loads
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Wildcatting is a different world today since the die makers have all quite offering custom dies..Im converting a beautiful Brno mod 21 in 8x60 to a 8mm/06 Ackley IMP..and nobody would even consider making me a set of dies, even though Redding lists them for $199. they don't produce them anymore...I was in a panic but won a auction on Gunbroker for a set..at a more than reasonable price..whew!! I bid a $100 and got them for $54.00, got 2 calls offering me $200 for them, nope! couldn't do that...


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Back at the range with some 130 gr loads with RL19. Getting some 100yd groups in the 1/2 to 3/4 inch range. RL 17 also very good with the 130 gr to fireform cases (1 in groups)with same POI as the RL19 loads.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Wildcatting is a different world today since the die makers have all quite offering custom dies..Im converting a beautiful Brno mod 21 in 8x60 to a 8mm/06 Ackley IMP..and nobody would even consider making me a set of dies, even though Redding lists them for $199. they don't produce them anymore...I was in a panic but won a auction on Gunbroker for a set..at a more than reasonable price..whew!! I bid a $100 and got them for $54.00, got 2 calls offering me $200 for them, nope! couldn't do that...

Ray CH4D has a ton of wildcat dies in stock and will make anything they don't have in stock. There is nothing wrong with their dies.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Snowman,
Based on the fact that I found H414, RL-19, RL22 worked great in the .308 and 7-08 I would assume it would work as well with these powders.My first choice would be H414 or WW760 I believe.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by snowman:
quote:
Originally posted by malcolm:
Is that similar to the 270 Redding?
Cheers Malcolm


Yes it is. I believe the 270 Redding is just the 308 necked down to .277. Mine is the Ackley improved version. There is also another version that is the 300 Sav necked to .277,that was somewhat popular in the Sav 99 rifles


That brings back memories. I shot my first game animal (beyond quail, doves and rabbits) with a 270 Blis Titus (sp?) in a Savage 99. The 300 Sav. necked down to 277. It killed the javelina (no surprise)
 
Posts: 663 | Location: Central California Coast | Registered: 05 May 2007Reply With Quote
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I agree that 4350 is a bit on the bulky side however for case forming requirements even a minor load of just about anything will suffice. As in the old adage, if you could only have 1 , what it be? I would have to opt for 4350 for rifle + 2400 or pistol. At least, for now, we don't have to make that call.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 12486 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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TAC/H335 would be your best bet -- however, i see you like 760 .. so 748 would be the better winchester powder... varget would be a great choice .. even benchmark .. i would personally start with 708 or 243 loads

it's a TINY case, compared to what i also use tac/h335 for .. i load everything from 7.62x25 to 223, to 550 magnum with h335


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34530 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I'm sure just about any powder faster than 4350 would work for fireforming cases.W760 was OK but the POI was several inches lower than other powders tested. I found the POI with 4064 was very close with 110 gr and 130 gr bullets. These loads were also very close to the RL19 and 130 gr bullets in cases that are fireformed. So I've got fireform loads shooting 3/4 inch groups and the POI is the same as full throttle loads with RL 19 in formed cases. Not sure how I can beat that ??
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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fireforming? i use pistol powder for that purpose -- h414, etc powders are WAY too slow for this size case ...


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34530 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Snowman: Interesting wildcat, the 270 Win is probably my favorite NA hunting caliber, and the short action would make for a handy rifle.

What make and length of barrel are you shooting?

I'll be very interested to see what kind of velocities you get, after you finish fire forming & get down to some hunting loads.
 
Posts: 138 | Location: CA.  | Registered: 26 October 2016Reply With Quote
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Baker the barrel is a Rem barrel and it finished up at 21 1/2 inches in a short action. Handy little rifle. Haven't done much chronographing but with 130 gr bullets I'm just under 3100 fps or about what most 270 Win get with 22 in barrels. I'm sure the 270 win will pull away vel wise if you go to 150 gr bullets as the powder space will be compromised on my 270/308. But 270 Win ballistics out of a short handy little rifle that is 2 lbs lighter than most 270's sure works for me
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Considering the design of the .308 case I can't see the point in making it an Ackley, the 270-308 has to be about the same ballistics, and with some other advantages..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Considering the design of the .308 case I can't see the point in making it an Ackley, the 270-308 has to be about the same ballistics, and with some other advantages..


Amen -- and that 708 and 260 rem are available at walmart ....


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34530 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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Have done a little more shooting with 130 gr bullets and have found RL 17 to be hard to beat both accuracy and velocity wise. 3120 fps from a short light little rifle that shoots into 3/4 inch groups @ 100 yds. I think that equals VENISON.
To all the nay-sayers out there. No this will never become a factory round I had no such intentions. I used a new take off barrel that I had and have had some fun. The end result is a very useful little deer rifle and that my friends is a good thing.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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i had read this as a thought experiment, not as a done deal.. Congrats-- it's a cool cart, does its expected results, and shows that there isn't a practical difference in the mediums ..

i have long joked that i have wildcats that have more ME difference in LOADS than the mediums have ME -- but that's meant to be funny, not ridiculing


lord knows I am all about wildcatting -- having down several myself ...
but i can't get there from here --- 260 rem, 6.5 credmore, 708 .. heck, even the 308 itself .. while i personally consider the 708 to be the perfect modern mid caliber, i wouldn't snark at a 7remmag, as i am a reloader, and can have exactly the level of recoil and perf i want ... which goes back to the 270 .. which is far from my favorite caliber, but the "reduced recoil" factory loads get pretty close, without $1500 investment in barrel, reamers, dies, etc ...

now, that it fits in a short action? nice .. but the 243-284 factory ammo and low cost entry, in short actions, make is REALLY hard for me to get there -- but, i respect you have done it...

so, you have a cool cart, in an action you want, that delivers the expected results, an sounds like GREAT accuracy .. dude, that's awesome

as for me, when i recently needed a "truck gun", i bought a 308, called it good, as these are tools to me .. i didn't even have to bed it to be sub moa... so, yeah, an ugly savage for the win, in a rather pedestrian caliber .. but it's enough to take hogs and exotics .. good stuff!


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
Order AR/AccRel Brass
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 34530 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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RL-19 is a super 4350 and measures so nice without weighing..Same for RL-17 and perhaps a slight tad better it seems in some calibers..I believe that Rl-22, 15, 17 and 19 cover about all my needs if push came to shove..but I still likek LVR, CFE-223, H-414 and a couple of others, oh hell just never quite satisfied..

I suggest WW-748 as it is hard to beat in the .308 and a Savage 99 will handle max loads in the 99, something many of the other good powders wont..It generaly expected to load 2 grs. under book max in the 99s, which tells me they have less pressure in max form than the other max pressure loads.. tu2


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Mmmmm all that preparation and all it took was one shot in deer season.
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Blowing the Ackley shoulder out on a 308 doesn't jive, the shoulder on the 308 Win is pretty steep and about the same as a Ackely shoulder, you just won't move much brass forward.. shocker


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Doesn't jive eh ?? Well I doubt it waltzs or two steps either. Ackley wrote in his handbook about the 270/308 Improved. " This is simply the Improved 243 Ackley,necked up to 270. Another way to make it,is to neck down a 308 Win to 270. This cartridge easily equals the std 270 Win but with more than a 10 % lower powder charge. This cartridge is a good example of proper adjustment between case capacity and bore size, Being slightly under bore capacity increases the relative efficiency. " Hey but what did Ackley know about cartridges ? Ray I'm not sure what you think this cartridge should do. I built a short action rifle that uses almost free 308 Win brass.Once through the size die load and shoot. Cases fire form without an issue. With the sharp shoulder angle there is very little brass stretching. I'm getting std 270 Win ballistics out of this little short action rifle that is several inches shorter than most std 270's and a couple pounds lighter. So for me is does jive !
 
Posts: 2271 | Location: manitoba canada | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Before the 260 Rem became a factory case I built a 260 imp. Same thing as you Snowman, short action, light rifle. Everything was easy about the cartridge, like the Creedmore is now. Almost every powder worked well, and shot well. No case trimming for multiple fireings, just a nice rifle/cartridge combo.
 
Posts: 3404 | Registered: 10 April 2009Reply With Quote
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Snowman,
Don't get me wrong, you have a great cartridge and more than suitable wildcat..I only make conversation and mention my opinion on these subjects..Im not a nasayer at all..I like to discuss pros and cons on most calibers, campfire talk on my behalf..If I ran across a Savage 99F in 270-308 Improved with dies or otherwise Id probably scoop it up in a heartbeat..Hard to beat a .270 in any form.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 36248 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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