The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gun Cleaning Forum Hoppes No.9Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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If you want to keep the foam cleaners from making a mess and getting in your magazine, etc., put an empty case in the chamber, close the bolt, stand the rifle upright, and squirt the foam into the muzzle. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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I have done a lot of testing on cleaning a rifle barrel, using a bore scope to test results. On a badly fouled barrel and every 100 to 200 rounds or so on most barrrels, the best thing to use is J&B Bore Paste, or Remclean. They remove both copper and powder fouling. They are a mild abrasive not chemical. You should be able to get some J&B shipped to Africa as it is fairly inert. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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JKINGRPH I read that Hoppes #9 was "originally" a black powder solvent in one of the shooting publications back in the mid-80's. I asked my gunsmith about it and he said yes it was true. I obviously have thrown away all of my #9 bottles from the last century. But if my memory serves me correct, I believe it use to say on the bottle that it was good for da da da and blackpowder. It never mentioned copper fouling. Here lately I have become somewhat of an un-willing expert on copper fouling removal on three to four manufactured rifles (no custom barrels) These rifles copper foul so badly that you can see the groups opening up from 1 and 1/2" to four inches in only six to nine shots. When you look at the muzzle with a flashlight you will find copper. So I know it is already in the throat. I have cleaned with Butch's, Shooter's Choice, Hoppes'Bench Rest, and all of the other petroleum distillates with absolutely no positive results on the copper removal issue. Only Wipe Out foam and BoreTech get it out and even then after several cleanings. "The right to bear arms" insures your right to freedom, free speech, religion, your choice of doctors, etc. ....etc. ....etc.... -----------------------------------one trillion seconds = 31,709 years------------------- | |||
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Hoppe's will remove the copper but it takes time between several cleanings to do it. Sounds like your barrels need to be lapped. | |||
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What a Pant Load----people PLEASE use your brain here!!! With layered copper and carbon fouling you might as well get a Witch Doctor to shake a bleached skull at your barrel!! | |||
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BH, I can't find a thing wrong in SR4759's post. Time and multiple cleanings will remove layered fouling. What do you find incorrect? Mark "Greatness without Grace is mere Vanity" - Hank the Cowdog | |||
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Hoppes #9 still works; some of the new wonder solvents are over rated. #9 isn't the fastest, but is a good general purpose solvent and doesn't dissolve your bronze bore brushes. | |||
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If something will not harm your copper brushes then how is it supposed to remove the same thing plus carbon in the tube???? A 2 second blast of brake cleaner will clean the brushes between cleanings as you never want to introduce the cleaned carbon and fouling back into the tube.... Something to think about... Cleaning also involves common sense. | |||
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Hoppes does not work----verified by a bore scope. I will admit that I did not use it 20 times over a 1 year period giving it a week to soak between applications but this week tried it on a rifle that had a small carbon ring and a little layered fouling and it did get the lose fouling but copper streaks were still there along with the carbon ring which was unchanged. 10 minutes later using Butches bore shine and some Iosso Paste the tube looked like new period…. Some of us have the equipment and the means to clean firearms completely and properly. One look with the bore scope will verify everyting. | |||
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Hoss, I will match my common sense and experience to your without reservations. I have used a variety of cleaning products for various circumstances. Your logic is like saying 4895 doesn't work in a 30-06 because 4350 gives higher velocities. | |||
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Sorry----Logic has nothing to do with it---TESTING DOES.... | |||
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So, you clean like I do then - a solvent and an abrasive when needed. You use Butch's and Iosso and I use #9 and JB. Works fine, verified by borescope. Relax BH. More'n one way to skin a cat. Mark "Greatness without Grace is mere Vanity" - Hank the Cowdog | |||
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Hobby, Care to contradict Speedy Gonzalez? B. Solvents - We recommend Sweets 7.62 for copper and a *solvent mix of our own (Actually Pat McMillan gave me this formula) for powder fouling and for cleaning/storing your rifle for the next match or season. This Speedy Formula is made as follows: Mix 2/3 rds. Hoppes No. 9 Plus Black Powder solvent with 1/3rd. Regular Hoppes No. 9 Nitro solvent. Let this mixture set overnight and it will form a sort of gel that adheres very well to the brush and cuts powder fouling to a minimum. * Note: Butches Boreshine may be substituted for this Speedy formula. It is all right here. Right down to the place where he says use a bore brush with it. Speedy's way | |||
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The brushes are not copper. They are a copper alloy. Phosphor bronze is noted for it's springiness and corrosion resistance. It is a more complex alloy than the pure copper or simple alloys used for bullet jackets. The only shot that goes though the barrel with out crap in the bore is the first shot. That is unless you clean between every shot. Even bench rest shooters fire a few foulers before starting a record groups and they may fire other sighters as a group progresses. All through a somewhat dirty bore. Think about it and your cleaning obsession. | |||
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Now you are attempting to play some games and that is fine. Speedy (you really don’t want to go there with me) gets a laugh out of folks like you and I am sorry to offend by using the term copper brush because they are phosphor bronze after all my bad there. Speedy sent me all of his published and non published articles from reading wind, diagnosing vertical stringing etc. have about 10 or 15 in my files. You talk about bench rest shooters ---- was not aware you were so familiar about that discipline! From your posts you seem to be buried in the weeds --- how many HOF points, Range Records, 1K State Championships have you won ole timer? When you live in a glass house it is better not to throw rocks----do you verify anything or do you just read on the internet and parrot. FWIW Speedy and I have discussed that older article you referenced many times and even after trying some of the newer products his conclusion is Iosso still occupies the top spot to remove everything from the tube. As Speedy says “A Clean Barrel Is A Happy Barrel” and also one of his lesser known ones “Winning Isn’t Everything But Losing Sucks”!! Speedy uses Butches and Sweet's in the field and Iosso at night in the Hotel room or back in the shop (ask me how I know). Also, to really get the copper out faster he showed me the real trick!! It involves Hydrogen Peroxide and Sweets but you will have to wait for that one. Keep digging your hole. | |||
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Care to quit dodging and admit that Hoppe's works and that you don't have the patience to use it? I have a lot of experience with Hoppes with a lot of different barrels from military sewer pipes to benchrest rifles. I know it works. How about the comment about all shots are through a dirty barrel except the first one? Can you make that one go away? Do you borescope between shots? Do you clean to a copper free bore between shots? Of course not. Do you even know how thick the copper wash is you are obsessed about? Do you even know what mu is between steel and the bullet jacket versus mu between the wash and the bullet jacket? Do you know how much mu changes with the first shot? Do you know that when a new gadget and a new bottle of snake oil comes out you will be the first in line to adopt it? | |||
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I did find Speedy's idea of Hydrogen Peroxide and a sloooowww patch quite informative but I haven't tried the peroxide part, I'll admit. I've used Sweets for about 30 years since I'm primarily a Service Rifle and Palma shooter - .30 cal bullets often left quite a bit of copper. Sweets is nice to leave in the bore during an apres match beer. We typically shoot either 88 or 110 rounds without cleaning, the last shots fired at longest range. The amount of gook in a M14, M16 or boltgun barrel after a day-long course of fire is surprising and usually requires some soaking to get to the bottom of it all. Hoppes is useful, boring, old and familiar - kinda like paying in cash. And me, for that matter. Mark High Master Distinguished Rifleman #1228 "Greatness without Grace is mere Vanity" - Hank the Cowdog | |||
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I find this quote really humorous for purposes of this tread. .... Can I get my barrel too clean? Yes, it is possible to get your barrel too clean, or to actually dry out the stainless steel. After brushing your barrel with a brass brush soaked with Hoppe's #9, Shooters Choice, or Butch's Bore Shine & Oil, several times and letting it soak for a few minutes, run a couple of dry patches in your barrel. Shoot a few more rounds, and if there is a considerable amount of cooper or fouling, then you may need to repeat the procedure. The key is, if your rifle is performing well, then you are probably getting it clean enough. It comes from this site. Hart Rifle Barrels | |||
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Again-----you are a pompous old wind bag who has no empirical evidence to back up anything he say's except to cut and paste. The rifles I shoot will VARY little from a clean condition to a fouled one (Speedy builds all of my rifles except the Guild wooded stocked rifles)------since you brought him up I will let you in on a little tip from Speedy-----ALWAYS start from a completely clean barrel!! Then you will know from your load development what fouling level and the corresponding accuracy degradation will occur from a KNOWN condition. In your case maybe a lucky guess will yield acceptable results occasionally however, I like to win. You may be a nice old guy but your knowledge of how to extract maximum potential from a given firearm are lacking to say the least. I doubt you know the difference between an ear ring and a carbon ring.  | |||
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Hobby, You like to win. You mean you cannot have any fun without winning. And about data, got any statistically valid data? Like the old joke goes and you probably get to hear this one a lot "In God We Trust" Everyone else bring data. Got anything better than personal attacks to back up your tales. Hart knows more about barrels than you will ever know. Speaking of rings how do your barrels get so crappy that they need such extreme cleaning? And about always starting from a perfectly clean barrel, do you scope it between relays at at match? | |||
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Don't Hoppes make the #9 in black for copper? Anyhow my cousine was up 2 weeks ago,and brought some old mausers and enfields and such to shoot.. I don't have any of those but, he's a collector, he made the statement after firing a few rounds of corrosive powder through them that he would have to clean them with soap and water????? I don't know much about it, but thats the way I used to clean my black powder rifle years ago.. That might be an old trick, I used hot water so it would dry fast then oiled it up....... Hot soapy water?....works on kids, hookers, hunters, doctors, witches, and it may work on old military rifles.....cheap too.... shoot I've even used it on my race car.... | |||
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so boss hoss,what should I use to clean the copper from my barrels? I like to use ol #9,but if something else works better,I can use it ,too. I dont have enough time to do the things I want to do,let alone the things I need to do,and if something works better,I'm all for it. I like to use #9 on my shotgun after a day of upland hunting.Brings back memories.  ****************************************************************** SI VIS PACEM PARA BELLUM *********** | |||
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It also free's up rusty parts! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Can't understand why people cling to stuff that plain does'nt work for shifting copper fouling, I tried everything I could get my hands on, & the only stuff I found to work everytime is wipeout, & no I don't have any links to the sales side of this stuff, just plain old evidence of my own mk1 eyeball.  | |||
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JB---above you will find a link to the Speedy way to clean tubes. I for the most part follow this -- Copper use Sweets but there is fouling that is layered in the tube and Iosso will get what remains--All of this verified by a bore scope. No reason to put wear across the crown needlessly by excessive brushing. Talked to Speedy a couple of time since this thread was started and he got a good chuckle out of it. Another trick that Speedy taught me is to saturate the bore with Sweets then Very slowly push a patch soaked with Hydrogen Peroxide down the tube. It will foam like a rabid dog but the chemical reaction will take the COPPER out and put it in suspension in the foam that goes out the end of the barrel. Works like a charm.. | |||
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FWIW-I used Hoppes for years in all my guns.No matter how long and hard I tried I never got to the point where a patch would come out clean.Over time copper built up in my 7mm and accuracy started to fall off.I tried Hoppes copper solvent and Butches Bore Shine.Butches got out more than Hoppes but after several days of soaking,brushing and dry patches they were still coming out green.I just posted about it here.A couple folks recommended JB compound and I remembered I had some on hand.Anyway that did the trick.Great stuff!!! | |||
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If you have a lot of copper in a small bore plug it and pour it full of Hoppes and stand it on it's muzzle and leave it over night. | |||
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No.9 is one of those smells..The Smell of a Duck Blind or the Smell of Evening waiting for a Fly Hatch.. AK | |||
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Yep, that's the old military procedure for getting out the salts left by corrosive primers [not powder, unless it's black powder]. Works very well, but Sweets 7.62 will do the same job, as it's water-based. And the smell of Hoppes' is due to banana oil [isoamyl acetate] in the formulation. Don't make it work any better, but sure smells good! The ingredient in the original Hoppes formulation that made it so effective, nitrobenzene, has long been removed as too hazardous. Cheers, Doug | |||
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HOPPES #9 DOES NOT SMELL GOOD.it did but it dont now.I have hoppes and read the bottle.it has amonia and butual?then I got out my new quart bottle and took a smell aaaag.read it no ammonia and no butual?its not the same and there is no new product in it.I did love the smell and have for over 60 yrs.guess no more hoppes. | |||
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Boss Hoss, borescope or not you've made such an ass out of yourself by insulting others that nobody is going to take you seriously. How do you know what Speedy does in his hotel room at night? Has he been cleaning your bore too? Relentless pursuit of perfection? HA! Been stealing any other tag lines from Lexus? Pretty sad to steal your lines from a wanna-be luxury Toyota that does little more than copy it's competitors. Who am I? I'm a machinist with a background in chemistry. I know how metals react to chemicals, pressures, and other metals. You do not need a bore scope to understand the laws of physics. Now, back to cleaning bores... I use Hoppes. I have patience. I have really nice one hole groups out of a factory bore (Remington Custom Shop chamber) to show for my efforts. Is this a race gun? No. Is it a multi-million dollar shoot-the-nuts-off-a-gnat-at-two-miles gun? No. Does it put hits on steel silhouettes at 1000 yards? Yes. Will it take an apple off your head at five hundred paces? I bet people would pay to find out after your tirades on here. Abrasives and pastes will not see the inside of my bore. I have no desire to inflict additional wear. I've got 1800+ rounds of full house loads through my 300 WM and it's still a tack driver. Sure, there's copper in the bore. When I dissolve the copper it sprays patterns until the copper returns. Why is that? The copper lays down in the lands and smooths out the rough spots that are present in ANY rifled bore. It also reduces friction. Kinda like using Astro Glide on your borescope. I clean the bore with Hoppes and am happy with the results. Maybe I won't bring home the gold in some one handed behind the back two thousand yard match. Who cares? As long as I can ring a 10 inch steel plate at 1,000 yards I'll be happy. | |||
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In short you are an IDIOT.. Why don't you contact Speedy and ask him how I know these things. If you are happy in your ignorant bliss then so be it.. People like you I LOVE to shoot against LOL oh and a demonstration can be arraigned for the proper amount of money...  | |||
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