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Quantifying "stopping power"?
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I did a off and on stint in Mexico in my DEA LE days raiding herion labs and kicking doors mostly, I witness a number of shooting, as the Mex feds shoot first and don't bother with asking questions later. The caliber that impressed me most was the 9MM with modern, mostly Border patrol plus P Plus gifted ammo...The 357 with 125 gr Federals were also extremely deadly..Those guys didn;t have ballistic knowledge, just experience killing and they just sprayed and prayed and it worked every time, they liked the 9mm best, some carried the issue 45 ACP, it worked only fair IMO..I know a real killer is deadlier with a small caliber than a newbie with a 44 magnum, or so it seemed to me, I guess that was mostly because the killer was shooting while the new guys were thinking..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
I’ve seen whitetails double-lunged with a 270 run a couple hundred yards. I don’t think there’s a human ever born that could do that.


There's a guy who posts on Specialty Pistol forum who survived being shot in the chest with a 7mm Mag.
 
Posts: 1230 | Location: Saugerties, New York | Registered: 12 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Greg K:
quote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
I’ve seen whitetails double-lunged with a 270 run a couple hundred yards. I don’t think there’s a human ever born that could do that.


There's a guy who posts on Specialty Pistol forum who survived being shot in the chest with a 7mm Mag.


I have a friend that took a round from a 45-70 and he still up and moving after 60 years.

Just read the Medal of Honor stories it is amazing how shot up some of them were.
 
Posts: 19314 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Yes indeed. I've read a few of the MOH books as well + one on the recipients of the V.C. I would find it interesting reading if someone put out a book where the recipients were decorated with the emphasis on their use of the 1911 or A1.I know the story of Hanneken in the banana republic wars but there are bound to be more.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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On my many trips to Africa I carried one gun for everything, either a 375, 404 or a 416 on those trips when I would be hunting PG in RSA and buffalo in Tanzania or Zimbabwe or both...I have seen springbok and such game run up to maybe 200 yards and in another case a quarter of a mile shot behind the shoulder with a 400 gr. softnose..that due to its tough DG jacket didn't expand..Ive seen the same with a slug in a 12 ga. shotgun..Not all that common but it does happen, and on the other hand a light fast bullet might and has blown up on the shoulder of a deer and Ive experienced that..Bottom line is poop happens..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Right. Several years ago Texas Trophy Hunters came out with a .224 TTH. While I liked the performance ballistics it was essentially a souped-up necked down to 22 cal from a 6 MM. Hell, I could that + better. So I built a 22-250 AI 40 deg. shoulder w/ a 1/6 twist to handle the 80 G. Sierra. One can get phenomenal velocities with that config. + keeping in mind that the faster it travels, the fewer gravity effects, so when it gets there you still have an 80G instead of a 55G. The downside is that since it is moving so fast, close targets have a tendency to just walk away because the projectile explodes o0n contant + nada penetration.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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You're right Ray. All things considered, a 375 H+H is hard to beat; if it came down to the old adage about only one, that would be my choice.


Never mistake motion for action.
 
Posts: 17357 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 11 March 2013Reply With Quote
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Forest,
Contrary to your thinking, a Waxahachie Police officer took a 6.5 thru his chest dead center with a soft point bullet destroying his heart and lungs, and he walked from the Interstate to the Waxahachie POlice dept. in city center before he died...Adrenaline can do strange things..I was their at the time and knew most of the officers in town..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of 458Win
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Correct bullet placement and performance


Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship
Phil Shoemaker
Alaska Master guide
FAA Master pilot
NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com
 
Posts: 4187 | Location: Bristol Bay | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With Quote
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Waxahachie, Texas, a city policeman ran about a mile shot center chest with a 6.5 MS as I recall, he died at the hospital, so under some circumstances man can get enough adrenaline in his system to servive a solid hit..and Im sure there are more instance in the battle field..

stopping power is simply knocking one down and his inability to function his body, a kill is stopping power, but so is a number of wounding shots. it stops the aggressor..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Waxahachie some 40 or so years ago a young police officer I know was shot center chest with a 6.5 caliber rifle soft point, ran a mile or more to the police station, and died...I remember that well..so it can happen.


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Wow! I guess I shot that same guy 3 times on this thread,,,I didn't think it was working so kept repeating it...I erased two of them..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of 450 Fuller
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As Ray has pointed out earlier, and now in some detail: handgun stopping power was exhaustively studied by SGT Evan Marshal of the Detroit PD.
His stopping power study was defined by one shot stops-
confirmed by witnesses, hospital records, and the
bodies of the deceased. The 80s-90s accounts revealed that the 357 Magnum with 125 gr Federal hollow point ammunition did best. Upper 90% one shot stops.
Whether the 357 SIG can equal that is a moot point, but worthy of consideration. After the 1986 FBI shootout in FL against bank robbers; that changed the emphasis from revolver to semi autos in law enforcement-nationwide. Shortly after that came the double-tap concept, which is favored by many.
INS had two major shooting incidents involving a 9mm S&W 39 -which required multiple shots to finish a machete- wielding Ukrainian. The other was a San Francisco INS agent who was about to be run down by a car driven by a wanted illegal alien with an extended criminal history.
Driver was instantly killed by a 357 Colt Python,
4 inch revolver. In at least this case, it supported the findings of Marshal as to the 357 cal iber revolver.


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Posts: 353 | Location: Between Alaska and Gulf of Mexico | Registered: 22 December 2017Reply With Quote
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What I know for sure...

Over a life time I have learned to put the projectile, arrow or bullet, through what I want to kill such that it will disable parts that the animal needs to live.

I have learned that I cannot predict with any particular accuracy how long it lives nor how far it can travel after the shot. I have had deer shot through both lungs manage just over a mile. I have had deer shot through both lungs drop where they stood. I have had deer shot through both shoulders still run like they were not hit.

There is only one shot that produces uniform results Hit the brain stem! That produces a sort of slow motion dropping of the head with the body following. No lashing around like a head shot. No kicking reaction. A minute or three after the deer hits the ground is is not uncommon to see some leg movement, not violent movement, just sort of like a walking movement. Small target though, about the size of the last two joints of your thumb. I have seen head shot deer run off. I have seen spine shot deer drag themselves some yards. I have seen neck shot deer run off a long ways

If you cannot put a deer on the ground where it stands any other way than a brain stem shot, every single time, with a centerfire deer rifle, then any discussion of stopping power of handguns is more or less wasted air.
 
Posts: 958 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 25 January 2008Reply With Quote
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Well no doubt the handgun is less than desirable in a gunfight but beats the hell out of a club or knife..Push comes to shove I'll take a rifle, shotgun except for inside small structures like houses or apts where wielding becomes important, anda there long guns are awkward..


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 41763 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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