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I decided to shoot some of my self defense handguns. Cz 75 Hk vp 9 Hk p30 Glock 23 42 43 I could hit a paper plate at 20 paces 1 out of 10 times. I would be useless with a handgun. I am going to shoot my one red dot gun to see if that really helps. Also going to load my benelli m4 as home defense gun. Handguns are useless for me as I am incompetent. I really wonder how many cops are good with their sidearms. Mike | ||
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Mike, My shooting skills were about like yours. I wanted to start carrying on a daily basis but knew my abilities were sub par. I took four full days of tactical pistol training over two weekends. By the end of the training my shooting, gun handling skills, safety with a pistol, and overall confidence all greatly improved. After lots of live fire and dry fire practice I am better, not great, but proficient. I am still working on my skill set. The moral of the story is find a good trainer and attend a couple of classes. It will help. Grip, stance, and trigger control tend to be the main culprits of bad shooting. A red dot may help some but will not solve the fundamental problems. | |||
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I shoot cowboy action shooting. It gives a chance to draw and fire revolvers, shotgun and rifle at targets 7 yards to 50 yards with movement for accuracy and speed. It will make you shoot better and it is fun! If you want to use a 1911 instead of a single action you can shoot Wild Bunch. | |||
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Many cops are not. Several that I have talked to avoid practice because they have to supply their own ammo.Now we all know that they don't make that much on the pay scale but I think this would be a priority as your life + others were concerned.I keep a CZ 75 in the night stand but I carry ONLY a 1911.When you need it you don't have time to think,if that makes any sense.Practice with your carry piece;don't diserify.I trained at Gunsite + that is why I also have a CZ75. When Col. Cooper expounded on the virtues of this pistol (+ it was a 9mm)I knew it had to be good. It is. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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I was shocked how bad and incompetent I was. I normally shoot my smith and Wesson 686 single action. I hate shooting pistols cause I have to clean up the ammo of the ground. I am not sure why I have a pistol in the truck or carry if I am that incompetent. I will take some handgun shooting training in the near future. It is tough to become good with a handgun - it’s requires skill and practice. Mike | |||
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There are so many good pistol academies that you really do owe it to yourself to get that training. Besides, it's fun and if you take a good friend with you it's a vacation. One week at Gunsite is my recommendation. _________________________________ AR, where the hopeless, hysterical hypochondriacs of history become the nattering nabobs of negativisim. | |||
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I've shot handguns for quite a while and didn't know what I didn't know. I decided to take a course at a well regarded shooting academy. Having gone through a progression of courses over the last two years and about 100 hours of training, I'm begining to get it. I learned there is a clear difference between shooting and gunfighting. Regardless of how far you want to take it, qualified training is well worth the money and more fun than I thought it would be. | |||
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As a professional trainer for decades. In a weekend of training 12 hrs or so 1000 to 1500 rounds. I have taken some fairly poor shots and have them making hits at 50 yards. The last client went from never having shot passed 20 yards to his last group at 50 was 4 inches. Put then this is intensive one on one training. Not being just one of 20 or so in the class. I taught both ways in a class having 1 to 10 ratio is fairly common. That results in a fairly boiler plate method of instructing. With a one on one ratio I can be constantly mentoring and proving instruction to the shooter. I try to only instruct about 6 hr. a days as I learned the much more then that. Of intent training with hundreds of rounds fired is tiring. For both the shooter and the instructor. A good instructor well not only improve ones shooting but well over time, Will save money for the shooter. As they don't waste ammo in the future. Come to Wis. for 3 days of training with me. You well find the training to be superb and the price to be very reasonable. Plus you well not be just another client in a class of 20 or more. Having written developed hundreds of training programs. I personally develop a training program to suit the clients needs. I can guarantee my instructing credentials are on par with some of the best. | |||
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I trained hundreds of officers. It depends on how interested they are. The figures are for all gun owners/users LEO's military, civilian. 90 percent really do not care. 7 percent care more and practice fairly often. 3 percent are the gun guys they shoot and shoot a lot they train go to competitions. Reload, read and breath firearms. They shoot really well in the area they are interested. | |||
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I think this is a great thread. You have quite a variety of quality pistols to start with. That HK VP9 is one heck of a semi-large frame with a great trigger and renown accuracy. Of all the pistols you have, I feel this is the one you will learn to shoot the best. It’s very similar to my PPQM2 which is the pistol that I can best shoot at all ranges. However, the VP9 in not imo a concealed carry pistol; it’s serves best for range shooting, match shooting or better yet, the night stand home protection pistol. You also have the ideal 3 pistol setup in your Glocks. I just find the Glock triggers to be too inconsistent without doing trigger jobs, so I stay away from now. The trigger may be the most important feature in good pistol shooting. Just look at all the hundreds of dollars one can spend turning a lousy shooting 1911 into a world class match gun. The first thing I would do is pick a pistol and fall in love with it. Practice dry firing a lot which will help to see where you need to place your finger on the trigger most efficiently and give you a visual to see where and if the sights move when you pull the trigger. Speaking of falling in love, that VP9 may not look the sexiest, but she, I think will be the best performer. Then, I would set all the others aside and focus on getting really good with the VP9 first, starting at 7 yards then moving out as your shooting improves. But stick with that girl and make her yours. As to technique, get with some folks who are really good pistol shooters and compare things such as grip techniques and arm extension. There will be some who will tell you there’s only one proper grip; not so. My grip has changed a couple times since my military training on the 1911. Sight picture is another thing to work on extensively while dry firing. Shooting with or without glasses? Left or right eye dominance versus left or right hand dominance? Also play with the ammo a bit; 115 vs 124 gr? Winchester vs Rem? Once you’ve gotten some good help with deciding technique, then do the two most important things: 1) Dry fire every chance you get, while watching tv or when you’ve nothing better to do and 2) shoot a lot with purposeful shooting. But first thing, fall in love with your pistol. I’m sending you on a blind date with that VP9. After all that and your shooting has improved, then focus on a concealed carry. All right, beat me up guys. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Very good advice. The cz75 was a typo. It is actually a shadow 2 - has a great trigger and I like the gun. I like the vp9 - better than the p30. It is already my nightstand gun. I used to shoot airpistol 35 years back. Singled handed with my left hand in my pocket, tape on my glasses to compensate for left eye dominance, 45 degree leg stance, standing sideways and slowly lifting the gun from a rest and going above target and coming back down I would shoot okay. Two handed shooting I am shooting 2-3 feet to the left. I need to practice as I have a lot of 9mm ammo to shoot. Mike | |||
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I am stuck in Florida for near term due to family reasons. But this is something I would definitely do. Mike | |||
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I am in AZ for the winter. To dam cold in Wis. to train outside any way and a couple feet of snow on top of it. Med Aril to November is great Unless I am gone hunting. But I can work something out. Just PM me if your ever interested or anybody else. | |||
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Knowing how to use any trigger set up only takes time and knowledge. I only shoot my double action revolvers double action. The rest of the triggers are easy beans once you have that skill. Takes less then a Hour to learn it and the lots of dry firing to perfect it. | |||
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I totally agree that any trigger can be learned efficiently, but for the op why handicap himself to start with. That’s why I recommended the VP9, no need to worry about that trigger or accuracy. One of the best pistols out there, and I don’t own one. As long as it fits his hand properly and these VP’s usually do. I feel his biggest issue is being right handed and left eye dominant but that can be overcome. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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Mike, your candor is most commendable. P Dog, your calling is an important one. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Well as long as one knows he can't shoot a handgun, he is good to go..get a sawed off shotgun full of #1 buck and your good to go on any aggressor, and if you get the first shot off, the event is over.. I had to qualify every month for about 44 years..I have not shot one much since I retired from LE in 1990 or there abouts, but the other day I took my daughter out for some lessons to get her license for Idaho...I can still shoot damn good instinctively and on targets with a 22, 9mm Browning, 380 PPKS and an airweight chiefs special..Maybe is like riding a bike, you never forget how..but I was a little rusty to start. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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It helps to know how to shoot in the first place. | |||
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I took my Canick which has a red dot to the range and I was able to put 5/6 out of seven in the 8 inch paper plate at 20 paces. With my smith and Wesson 22lr revolver I was between 5-7 out of 10. At my local pawn shop I was being mocked for my poor shooting and my ownership of blasers (they do the ffl -my gunsmith is too far away). One of the gentleman there (who was not mocking me) is a retired police firearms instructor and belongs to my gun club. He has kindly offered to teach me how to shoot. I will take him up on it in a few weeks. I also am buying this https://www.aimpoint.com/product/aimpoint-acro-p-1/ Rifles are so much more fun. Mike | |||
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I picked up a MantisX trainer for my wife for Valentine's Day. She has long lamented her poor handgun skills, and I'm not a good teacher. Within 15 minutes of dry firing she could tell what she was doing wrong and what it took to break the trigger cleanly while staying on target. I've used it too and it has helped me as well. I won't claim to be GOD's gift to handgun shooting but I've been doing it for over 30 years and can hold my own. It isn't a complete solution to your problems but I bet it would help. It also works for live fire. Here is a link: https://mantisx.com/ They retail for $150, I picked mine up locally for $130. | |||
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I guarantee that if you learn proper fundamentals and then dry fire every day at home, you skills will improve dramatically | |||
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I used to practice with a 6 inch S&W, they have a flat top front sight as most of you know..I would put a dime on top of the sight and practice breathing and trigger pull, the idea is to pull the trigger (empty gun of course) and the dime remain on top...try that one, in time you will be able to do it every time, its for the target shooter, for the most part..I spent most of my practice time on instinctive shooting and combat practice..I also believe instinctive shooting with a big bore rifle is necessary, and more accurate than many believe, especially with iron sighted rifles and double rifles.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Take a look at the new Glock model 44 in 22LR. The trigger is supposed to be identical to the centerfire Glocks. The pistol is dimensionally identical to a full size Glock and they are now arriving at some stores. They can be bought for about $350 and seem to be a good way to practice inexpensively. They have a rail so you can even practice with your red dot sight. I see you have a couple Glocks so it could be a good training tool plus a lot of fun. If you do a search for Glock 44, you will find plenty of videos showing them in action. | |||
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100% | |||
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One of several techniques to improve your trigger skills. It is amazing how many people are to lazy even to dry fire or don't care enough. I had a client out for a few hours for someone that never fired a handgun. After proper instruction he was a decent shot with his 2 inch 38. I explain dry firing as a good cheap way of improving his skill level. A few weeks later he tells me he knows he should be dry firing but just hasn't. shrugging his shoulders. One can lead the horse to water but making them drink is another story. | |||
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I was about to say "get a PPK" and then saw Ray's much earlier post. A PPK just hits where you look. | |||
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Yesterday I was showing a friend how to reload ammo. We had some fired 44 Magnum cases. I resized and deprimed 6. I primed them, then loaded them with 12 grains of a powder we recovered from Naval Flares that had expired in June 1980. I loaded them with our own 225 Walterhog bullets, picked a Ruger Redhawk, and fired all the 6 shots at a target about 20 meters away. All six shots hit the middle of the target, making a group of about 3-4 inches! I forgot to add, I am used to shooting proper guns all my life. Not some funny German contraptions masquerading as guns  | |||
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I have found all of my redhawks to be accurate | |||
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I've got a Keith # 5 that will put them all in the X ring at 50 yds. It started life as a Ruger Super Blackhawk. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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Time to use that shotgun. I bet there is no plate left now. | |||
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Tod & Ray, I agree as well! When the chips are down, instinctive shooting is a life saver! …………………………......………….  MacD37....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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At one time I was very good with all my handguns. But you have to continue to PRACTICE or your ability goes away quick. I am getting better again though!! Enough that my son's & I were at the range a month back & at 25 yds. I was able to put all rounds in a 4" circle with 5 different weapons, oldest Son commented that if he ever comes in after dark he is going to dam sure Call & Knock first (he lives 65 miles away).   | |||
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I swapped a hk45 or a smith and Wesson 929 9mm revolver. 8 out 8 in a paper plate 25 paces. Love this gun. Mike | |||
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Sounds like your improving. | |||
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I am seriously thinking about selling all my handguns and moving to the 9mm revolver platform. Buy a smith Wesson performance center 968 in 5 inch and 2 inch. Sell all my handguns. Maybe buy a korth. Mike | |||
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I would seriously consider staying with rimmed cartridges for revolvers. | |||
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I like moon clips I like that 9mm ammo is cheap and plentiful I find shooting 22 in handguns boring I don’t like shooting anything bigger than 357 I am on the look out for a smith and Wesson 968 5 inch I spoke to korth - $6-$7k for a revolver is tough if one does not shoot it for competition. Mike | |||
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Mike, you can play with your handguns all you want, but for home =defense, a combat shotgun is the way to go. | |||
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Plenty of Manurhin MR 73 357 revolvers, both new and used, now available on the US market. A few are available with spare 9 mm cylinders. MR 73s are currently manufactured by Chapuis and imported by Ken Busch at Kebco and by J.J. Perodreau MR 73 is the choice of the French GIGN, among the most proficient practical revolver shooters of all times. Standard GIGN training is 150 full power 158 gr rounds per day. The MR 73 can handle that for more than 100K rounds, while still delivering target quality accuracy. Not cheap at around $3K new or as new used, but less than the $6-$7K for a Korth. The film l'assaut, available on line, shows the GIGN and the MR 73 in action dealing with terrorists holding an airplane filled with hostages. | |||
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I agree with Biebs on the shotgun equation, truth is you jack that slide the odds are you'll never have to even fire it, that sound is the same in any language. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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