In many terror attacks, in USA and abroad, terrorists wear body armor. I know close to zero about body armor, less about the type of armor available to "your average run-of-the-mill" terrorist. I anticipate that body armor will not be close to US infantry and/or government enforcement agencies - FBI, metropolitan SWAT teams, et al. These agencies are much more likely to violently engage terrorists than civilians - that is, us - so their weaponry and ammunition would be designed to penetrate terrorists' body armor. The agencies' would be less dependent upon being concerned about penetration. Schools are having staff participate in NRA classes to be emotionally and physically able to use handguns to thwart such situation.

What about CCW-ers, open handgun carriers, people - like us - who have handguns secreted in their cars and trucks? A large majority of these people will have quickly available some sort of handgun of 357 Magnum caliber and smaller, nearly all using some sort of controlled expansion bullet. How are we supposed to "deal" with terrorists with armor? Shooting them in the head sounds like what might be a typical response. In such an emergency it is nonsensical to expect clear, clever thinking. (Notice the bazillion shots that LEOs fire in many gunfights.) Likely, a hit anywhere in the torso would have a degree of luck attached.

I personally would be afraid to carry any 357 Magnum ammunition in my S&W 640 that would be effective penetrating body armor while remaining controlled expansion. I also would not carry armor-piercing Full metal jacket high velocity ammunition because it is a one-trick pony; it penetrates armor. Dealing with run-of-the-mill muggers, armed robbers, et al., these bullets would antagonize the bad guys before bleeding them out.

So what do we do?

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In many terror attacks, in USA and abroad, terrorists wear body armor

Actual most of the body armor reported here in the US have been non armored tactical vests.

In very few cases have they been wearing actual armor.

Situations like the North Hollywood bank robbers where they wore home made but effective armor. Require very accurate shooting or something that well penetrate armorer.

Hardness and speed or both well go through soft armor. IE rifle rounds or specialize handgun rounds. One of the reasons rifles are replacing shotguns in police vehicles.

A lot of rural departments have always carried some type of rifle.

As far as making your shots count practice is the key. LEOs are just like Non LEO shooters. I have instructed hundreds if not thousands of both.

90 percent of LEOs carry because they have to they don't practice until told to, around 7 percent practice more and are decent shots 3 percent are gun people and are shooters.

I found the above numbers true for the non LEO population also. Except they carry because they can.

Head, arms, legs, hands, feet are all targets that most likely well not be armored. Well you be able to hit them that is up to you. Non LEOs have a much better hit ration then LEOs.

Of course different situations determine what happens.

The first rule of a gun fight applies have a gun.

There are so many factors involved here and many books and papers on gun fighting have been written.

I can.t even come close in this small space to covering them.

I have 7 different instructor certificates from 3 certifying organizations. Taught many in tactics and firearms skills.

I run my own firearms training business now that I am retired.

Mind set and skills are very important factors and some times just plain luck.

Ned Kelly tried body armour against the the Victoria Police.

They shot, realised he was wearing armour, so shot him in the legs.




Worked then and no doubt would work now. The old "remedies" are usually the best.

Two to the chest/COM, then look for the low COM/hips,(most body armor ends well above the L and S spine areas...hard to sit with armor that covers adequately) failure to stop is not necessarily a quick response- so continue to shoot until you get the desired effect. Practice to achieve three quick hits to major body areas, chest/torso visible COM, then look for structure to reduce mobility and ability to effectively engage you- a man with a broken hip/shattered pelvis cannot stand, and a prone man is not as effective a combatant as a erect opponent, however, the target becomes more difficult once the opponent is on the ground.

[i]Two to the chest/COM, then look for the low COM/hips,(most body armor ends well above the L and S spine areas...hard to sit with armor that covers adequately)

stopping is not necessarily a quick response-

so continue to shoot until you get the desired effect.

one of the reason LEOs shoot a lot.

Practice to achieve three quick hits to major body areas, chest/torso visible COM, then look for structure to reduce mobility and ability to effectively engage you- a man with a broken hip/shattered pelvis cannot stand,

Just because a armed enemy falls down doesn't make him less of a threat.

a prone man is not as effective a combatant as a erect opponent.

to many variables to make this statement true.

however, the target becomes more difficult once the opponent is on the ground.

One of the variables

mozambiqued

A method of killing someone by shooting them twice in the same spot in the chest and once more in the head.

might work or slow them down enough for the one to the head.

which is how I was taught

kneecap first shot, then the head as they fall down and start crying...

I remember watching a live video of the North Hollywood shooting. You could see the perps reacting to the body armor shots, and could hear someone shouting that they had body armor and to 'shoot low".
A low body shot of hip height, as has been mentioned, should work, assuming you can hit what you are aiming at, difficult when they are shooting back!
Peter.

Some great advice here. I will add that it is had to make shots when its real and the shit hits the fan. You are shooting, moving, and trying not to kill a bystander....chaos!

Carry a 9mm and up, extra magazine, and be highly trained and practiced....you have to be able to overcome his spirit and know that it's a fight to the death.

Bring It!!!

Head shot drill- drink a can of your favorite beverage, then, hang it overhead on a 2or 3 foot long string, slap it and move to 5, 7, 9, 15 yards- try to hit it.

That represents the vital area of a head shot- a volume about 3x3x5 in the center of the head- just above the eyes to just above the teeth-

Get back to us with your result.

Then, take a number 10 coffee can, do the same-representing the hips to lower back, the area mostly exposed by other than tactical body armor, let us know....

I know of a few IPSC/USPSA types wo can hit the randomly moving can with regularity, but even most basic marksman can hit the coffee can.

In the end, take the shot (s) you need to, to stop a violent threat.

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You could see the perps reacting to the body armor shots, and could hear someone shouting that they had body armor and to 'shoot low".

They had home made leg armor also.

Nasty guys who, if they would have use good fire control and tactics would have meant a lot more dead and wounded.

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armor-piercing

Federal felony if loaded into a handgun.

I was told by my instructor that if you are engaged by a Perp wearing armor, the best place to shoot him is just below the belt line from the front dead center or from the side into the pelvis area. That is a much bigger target than the leg, then follow up with a head shot if not down for the count!

A hollow point bullet in the lower abdomen will seriously hinder his ability to fight effectively! I'd just hate to have to test that theory!
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