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Anyone carry one? Comments?
Peter


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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They are illegal in PA but I can carry a pistol. Go figure.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
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A piss poor excuse for a baton. I was forced to carry one instead of my favorite PR24 by Dept. regulations.

A standard 24 inch baton is far above an expandable and a PR24 is far above a standard baton.

When it comes to impact weapons.

And yes I have use them in violent confrontations
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Thanks p dog, unfortunately a standard baton is not something that I plan on carrying!
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
A piss poor excuse for a baton. I was forced to carry one instead of my favorite PR24 by Dept. regulations.

A standard 24 inch baton is far above an expandable and a PR24 is far above a standard baton.

When it comes to impact weapons.

And yes I have use them in violent confrontations



Same here. I used one numerous times and wasn't too happy with it so I went back to my coca-bola nightstick.

Looks cool though....
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Many of the strikes LEO's are trained for are butt end strikes which the collapsible baton is not designed for.

An advantage of a collapsible baton is that it is always with you (I am of course referring to uniformed patrol). A patrol officer's baton can be inadvertently left in the car.

My preference was to carry the shorter collapsible baton on my belt and a yawara stick in my back pocket.

I could never get the hang of a PR-24 and was forever leaving my straight stick in the car. But those are likely the result of my personal short comings.


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10055 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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I carried a small collapsible baton off duty back in Ohio. It was an intermediate force option. I looked at some of the newer ones when I got here to Texas. They are a No-Go here.


____________________________________________

"If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor

Ruger Alaskan 416
Ruger African 223
 
Posts: 336 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 29 March 2010Reply With Quote
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2 Yawara sticks in my front shirt pocket (when I had a pocket on my shirt)! Now I want something that does not require me to be as close!
Peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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RPG's are good for that


Mike



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10055 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
I could never get the hang of a PR-24 and was forever leaving my straight stick in the car. But those are likely the result of my personal short comings.


I carried a PR24 for 8 years before I switched depts. To one that only allowed expandable batons. The pay and working conditions were better but the baton sucked.

I trained hard and was very proficient with mine an awesome close in impact weapon.

I lobbied hard to be allowed to carry it but it was just to dangerous and aggressive looking.
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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IMO, the problem with the expandable is that it dosn't have any weight behind it like a baton, or momentum like a PR24.
Also, it cuts skin and makes a bloody mess that might require stitches.

Looks cool as hell when you whip it out thoughSmiler
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Looks cool as hell when you whip it out thoug

OK, let's stay on topic here!
peter.


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
quote:
Looks cool as hell when you whip it out thoug

OK, let's stay on topic here!
peter.



Peter, all joking aside I will tell you that the ASP does work....I used mine numerous times.

I imagine that the best impact weapon would be a baseball bat but since you can't carry one as you go about your day then the ASP is a good idea.

It is DEFINITELY a better weapon than a yawara stick in your shirt pocket....I doubt that you would be able to get it out in time, and I can't see it being effective in a violent confrontation. It looks cool in the Karate magazines but I don't think it is going to be any good in real life.

A violent confrontation is pure, animalistic, mayhem, and a basic caveman weapon/striking instrument like an ASP, Baton, Club, etc will work best. Fancy moves and technique go out the window and basic punches, kicks, hammer-fist, headbutts, eye gouges, biting, etc come into play.

I think it was Mike Tyson who said it perfectly... "Everybody has a plan until I punch them in the face."


PS: Make damm sure that you can justify why you are carrying a weapon...especially if you are a White boy.
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
A violent confrontation is pure, animalistic, mayhem, and a basic caveman weapon/striking instrument like an ASP, Baton, Club, etc will work best. Fancy moves and technique go out the window and basic punches, kicks, hammer-fist, headbutts, eye gouges, biting, etc come into play.


+ 1 an expandable would better than not having a weapon for sure.

Don't forget knees and elbows.
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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I wanted to carry an expandable on my daily jogs to fend off the occasional mean dog. I guess I'll have to go with pepper spray instead.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
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It seems that one should get some training on the (non lethal) use of one of these, rather than just flailing away (fixed spelling). Comments?
Still thinking that carrying one of these might be less noticeable and less "threatening" than a handgun.
Peter


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
It seems that one should get some training on the (non lethal) use of one of these, rather than just flayling away. Comments?
Still thinking that carrying one of these might be less noticeable and less "threatening" than a handgun.
Peter



Peter, I didn't realize that you were thinking about choosing between an ASP and a handgun. If that's the case, then I would choose a handgun 1,000%! I wouldn't give that a second thought.
Actually, there is no reason that you cant carry both.

As far as ASP training, I'm sure that there are some good video's out there to show you some basic strikes so I would check that out first.
Remembering your Yawara Stick, there are strikes that you can do with the ASP in the closed position, which would be similar to using a Yawara Stick if you want to try that out.

I would also suggest that you get a heavy-bag or even a rolled-up carpet so that you could see what it's like to actually strike something with your ASP, and learn whats effective and what isn't. You will also see that it's not so easy to deliver a hard strike without hurting your hand!

Peter I wish you luck and you should be concerned about your safety these days.

BTW, I don't claim to be an "Expert" (whatever that means!) I give you my advice/opinion based on what I experienced during 24 years as a cop here in New York. I have been involved in dozens of violent confrontations over the years so I think that I have a realistic idea on what works and what is bullshit. I do not speak for everyone but I am just giving you one man's opinion.

Stay Safe!
 
Posts: 6080 | Location: New York City "The Concrete Jungle" | Registered: 04 May 2003Reply With Quote
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Thanks very much for the advice leopardtrack. I do have a CWP in Florida, and I do carry sometimes, and no one seems to know. There are times however, where it might be embarrassing to be "found out" even though I am within my legal rights. I am talking about friends etc. In such situations I always have my knife with me, and a collapsible baton might be equally unobtrusive. Having said that, my Ruger LCR is pretty unobtrusive but there are still times when a revolver in the shorts can be found out!
A T shirt and shorts is pretty de rigueur in Florida.
Peter


Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong;
 
Posts: 10505 | Location: Jacksonville, Florida | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With Quote
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quote:
I guess I'll have to go with pepper spray instead.


I carry spray for dogs when I run or bike has worked out well for me I have sprayed a few.
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
It seems that one should get some training on the (non lethal) use of one of these, rather than just flayling away. Comments?
Peter


Good training well make you more effective in your strikes retention ect.
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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A baseball bat works great. Not real concealable, but no one can complain that it's in the backseat of your truck, however, so I always kept one when I had kids in little league. Same thing with a 12" piece of pipe that's a jack handle. That was/is under the seat.

For years I kept what was described in a popular movie as a swing blade behind the seat of my truck -- a long handled cane machete. It's pretty damn awesome -- a foot long, six inch wide, 2 lb. blade on the end of a six foot oak stick. But, it's a tool.

I always have at least two short handled machetes in the organizer behind my truck seat, one about 12" and one about 18". I like my machetes razor sharp, but they are for cutting grass and brush. .

These are strictly tools.

My 1911 is a tool as well.
 
Posts: 10007 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Edge tools and impact tools along with a good mind has always had duel purposes.
 
Posts: 19362 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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