The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Personal Defence And Concealed Carry Anyone have a laser or other 'aid" on their carry gun?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I should broaden this to not just carry guns but "car" guns as well. I guess I could see laser grips perhaps, or maybe even reflex type red dot sights that replace the rear sight, but I am not sure about lights or other gizmos like red dots that must be bolted on in some way. But I am open to first hand opinions! Not talking about "home defense" guns. Thanks, Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | ||
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Peter, in my experience it happens so fast that maybe you will see your blurry sights/gun and maybe you won't remember seeing anything but your target...it happens that fast. I think that you will definitely NOT see that tiny laser dot! Forget about that "focus on your front sight" rhetoric...it dosent happen that way. You will be fixated on your target! | |||
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Exact opposite. I remember how perfectly clear my front sight was. Time slowed down enough to make note of the lint on my front sight. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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I have a crimson trace on the 1911 I carry under my coat at work every day. I qualify without the laser. About 80% of my practice time is without the laser and about 20% with it. The laser is there only for use in limited visibility, a situation I am unlikely to encounter but for which I consider myself prepared. . | |||
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I should have added that I am referring to a situation where I was caught off guard and just reacted and it was over in seconds. Several times when I was in SWAT I definitely used my sights. I think that the first situation would be more common for an armed citizen Hizzie were you LEO or Military? | |||
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LE, 12 years OTJ. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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Me too, 23.5 OTJ | |||
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Gentlemen, I appreciate your feedback! So, there are two situations perhaps: 1. Taken by surprise, have to react in self defense. 2. You see a situation and decide to intervene eg. the Walmart CCW's attempt to take out one of the bad guys, not realizing there were two of them, or you see a situation developing and have time to plan. Having said that, I tend to agree with the "don't worry about the small laser dot". Least of your problems view!! Guess I will stick to he old fashioned method! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Agree, and I keep mine turned off when ambient light is adequate. In fact, my Colt doesn't even have regular sights. It only has a groove (trench sight). After a while you learn to look at the target and shoot these things where you want them to hit. But if it gets dark the laser will make a world of difference, especially beyond 15 yards or so. . | |||
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Car gun and house gun both have lights on them---bad things tend to happen in the dark and I really like proper target ID. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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A weapon light is a shooting aid, NOT a search tool. Handheld light still necessary. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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+1 | |||
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I was conducting a HR218 qualification shoot and one of the older retires had laser grips on his 357. His eyes had trouble with iron sights but with the laser he shot a very respectable score. All of these things are just tools and have there place. Use them properly and they can help use them improperly they can cause problems. Retired after 33+ OTJ | |||
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Agree 100% The key to it all is regular realistic training and that doesn't mean standing in a booth and shooting paper | |||
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You guys with LE experience would know better than me, but all my years of guiding have taught me not to trust gizmo's with batteries when the chips are down. | |||
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It's a tool in your toolbox. Lasers can and do work. The key is to continue to train as if it will fail. You cannot use the laser as a crutch. Murphy will accept that invite and kill your battery or stick a piece of lint in just the right spot. You cannot panic and get stuck looking for the little red or green dot instead of front sight, trigger press. Probably the most important thing, and it comes from serious, realistic training is to be able to continue to process information. There is a lot going on. You cannot shut down. Quality training is waaay better than another gizmo. Dunno what you shoot but the SIRT Pistol is a great dry fire tool. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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Awesome Hizzie. I also own and recommend the Sirt pistol. Work in sparring, grappling, etc starting out with a holstered pistol and see how stance, grip, trigger control, and grip goes out the window. | |||
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I think it was Mike Tyson who said: "Everyone has a plan until I punch them in the face" Train for every scenerio | |||
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OK what about one of these reflex red dot sights that replaces the rear sight? Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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You will "play" like you practice or in other words...when things go bad and you are under stress you will revert to how you trained. For that reason, when I was working in LE, all my sights were the same, single white front blade and black rear square notch. I even blacked out the rear night sights and painted over the front with white nail polish. Every time the gun came out/up I mentally chanted "front sight, front sight, front sight". So in short, I would not put a laser on a carry self defense gun nor a optical sight. There was study done, sorry I don't recall where that was something about the vast majority of officers who delivered a center mass hit on the first shot distinctly remember seeing their front sight and all of the officers who missed don't remember seeing their front sight or something along those lines. Mike  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Head over to Modern Service Weapons. Do a search for "RMR". There a a few good articles written by men with far more experience that I. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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Thank you gentlemen! The Modern Service Weapons site was very useful. I have a couple of race guns with tube red dot sights and I can certainly attest to the slower first shot! I wasn't sure whether the reflex sight would be quicker, but I guess not! The guy who wrote the articles certainly has a focus on practicality. The article with water on the sight was a real eye opener!!! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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Hilton Yam and Tim Lau are two very respected names in the tactical community. No BS. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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Who said it was? the question was what aids do you have on your weapon--- "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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Nobody. You didn't say it wasn't either. Too many people confuse the purpose of a weapon light. There have been several publicized negligent discharges with tragic outcomes because someone was using a weapon light as a flash light. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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 Since you are determined to win--OK you win--- Lights have no purpose on weapons-- thats why the Army and Marines use them. And obviously why cops can't. "The rule is perfect: in all matters of opinion our adversaries are insane." Mark Twain TANSTAAFL www.savannagems.com A unique way to own a piece of Africa. DSC Life NRA Life | |||
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Win?? What are you going on about? At no point did I say lights have no purpose on weapons. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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In my 10 years OTJ I was center in two shootouts and was present when 3 others took place but I was not a participant as it was over so quickly. One where I did utilize my front site clearly (S&W 66), but quickly. The other was too chaotic and it was a shotgun point shooting at night with effect. The technique you practice with takes over immediately if you practice enough. But you must practice, the more the better. So Hizzie and Leopardtrack are both correct. Dutch | |||
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Despite the disagreements, this is a good topic. On one of the Outdoor Channels, or maybe THE Outdoor Channel, they showed a competition hosted by Streamlight I believe, where the whole contest (3 gun) was held after dark and the main illumination was provided by the lights on the guns! Now I don't recollect any "no shoot" targets so it may be that anything down range was fair game. Based on comments by Hizzie and others I am now not sure how realistic this competition was. Perhaps some of you have seen the show? I bring this up now because of the previous post that pointed out again that you perform the way you practice. So, how should one practice? Bear in mind that both of my clubs do not allow shooting after dark!!!! Peter. Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright, that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong; | |||
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In 3-Gun, IPSC, ect do they bring muzzle down between shoot targets if a no-shoot is present? Nope they sweep the hell out of every target down range, shoot or no-shoot. Is a bad habit. Peter- Always a way to train. Airsoft in the house in the evening with the lights off and Mrs gone or one of the realistic co2 powered BB guns in a darkened garage can help. Even running the house with a flashlight and redgun/bluegun or SIRT trainer has value. Most of all get legitimate training. ____________________________________________ "If a man can't trust himself to carry a loaded rifle out of camp without risk of shooting somebody, then he has no business ever handling a rifle at all and should take up golf or tennis instead." John Taylor Ruger Alaskan 416 Ruger African 223 | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Personal Defence And Concealed Carry Anyone have a laser or other 'aid" on their carry gun?
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