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"Less Lethal"....give me a break......
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I'd hate to be a cop carrying one of these......I can imagine the attorney's after an officer actually had to kill someone...."But why didn't you use the Less Lethal device, after all he only had a pocket knife...., etc., etc."

quote:
Ferguson, Mo., police begin testing new ‘less-lethal’ attachment for guns

About a month after a white officer fatally shot an unarmed black teenager in Ferguson, Mo., the city’s assistant police chief, Al Eickhoff, took to Google and searched under the words “less lethal.”

Eickhoff, a 36-year veteran of Missouri police work, said he was looking for any new device, weapon or ammunition — any alternative to lethal force — that might have prevented a deadly result when Michael Brown and Officer Darren Wilson encountered each other in the noonday heat last August.

Browsing a California company’s Web site, Eickhoff found pictures and videos of an odd-looking, blaze-orange device docked on a normal handgun barrel. When a bullet fired, it melded with an attached projectile the size of a ping-pong ball that flew with enough force to knock a person down, maybe break some ribs, but not kill him, the product’s makers said — even at close range.

Its name: the Alternative.

This week, five Ferguson police instructors will train to use the device; the department plans to introduce it to the entire force of 55 officers.

An alternative to lethal force

Alternative Ballistics has created a device for police officers that can incapacitate individuals through blunt force trauma rather than through lethal force.
Attracting ardent fans and just-as-fierce critics, the Alternative is the latest in a growing inventory of less-than-lethal police weapons — including the Taser, bean-bag-loaded shotguns, pepper-filled pellets, rubber-coated bullets and stun grenades — that officers reach for in various situations to minimize the chances of killing people.

The difference is that the Alternative is meant for exactly that time when officers decide, often in a split second, that they must shoot someone to protect themselves or others.

“It gives another option,” Eickhoff said of the device, which he later tested for himself. “I really liked it. . . . You are always looking to save a life, not take a life.”

But others consider the product dangerous because officers must take time — if only a few seconds — to remove it from their belts and affix it to a service weapon. That “exposes police officers to greater risk” and “turns policy on its head,” said Steve Ijames, a former Springfield, Mo., police major and training expert.

“I am all about less lethal,” he said. “What bothers me is we will allow an officer to face immediate deadly jeopardy with a less-lethal round. Deadly force is the most likely thing to repel deadly force.”

Post-Ferguson, the issue is particularly fraught. Critics have accused law enforcement agencies of inflicting casual brutality and needless death on minority communities. “Black lives matter” protests erupted after a grand jury declined to charge Wilson in Brown’s death and another grand jury, in Staten Island, did not indict the New York City police officer who put Eric Garner in a fatal chokehold.

Then there was the harrowing surveillance video from Cleveland of a 12-year-old African American boy, Tamir Rice, who was one moment nonchalantly playing with a pellet gun, the next moment shot dead by police.

Civil unrest catapulted deadly force onto the agenda of President Obama’s new task force on police practices, created to help shore up public trust in the criminal justice system. But nobody can say how widespread police-involved deaths are in the United States because police departments are not required to report that data to the Justice Department.

“The troubling reality is that we lack the ability right now to comprehensively track the number of incidents of either uses of force directed at police officers or uses of force by police,” Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said last month. “This strikes many — including me — as unacceptable.”

Police officials are quick to point out that the vast majority of officers would prefer to never have to shoot anyone. But juries almost always side with the judgments of those who enforce the law; if officers reasonably believe that they or others are in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm, they are generally justified to shoot to kill.

That applies even if the suspect’s gun was a replica or a mirage, a glint of light or a shadow, or if that now-bullet-riddled unarmed person was just reaching for his or her identification. It applies when a desperate character is waving a loaded gun, inviting “suicide by cop” — or just brandishing a big tree branch while marching on an officer.

Christian Ellis, the chief executive of Alternative Ballistics, said he started his small company near San Diego to perfect a device to stop needless citizen deaths in just such episodes. The rough concept was developed several years ago by a retired sheriff’s officer from whom Ellis said he bought the patent.

“Ask a police officer what are the options when lethal force is justified, and he’ll say, ‘I have my gun and my bullets,’ ” said Ellis, 32, who recently began marketing the Alternative in the United States and abroad. He calls it “an air bag for a bullet.”


Actually, it’s a bulbous metal alloy bullet-capture device that travels up to 250 feet per second (when propelled by a 9mm slug) and sends “a shock wave of pain through the suspect” when it hits, Ellis said. Effective to a range of 30 feet, the Alternative incapacitates a person but would very rarely penetrate the skin, he said, citing ballistics tests using leather chamois, foam and gel to simulate the human body. All tests were conducted at a range of five feet from muzzle to target.

Ellis invited Rep. Duncan D. Hunter (R-Calif.) to a shooting range for a demonstration of the device. The congressman, whose district includes San Diego, came away impressed after he fired a gun equipped with the Alternative.

Last month, Hunter, an Iraq war veteran, sent letters to three federal law-enforcement agencies urging them to give “close ­consideration” to less-lethal ­bullet-capture devices that dock with a weapon. He did not specifically name the Alternative, but there appears to be nothing else fitting that description on the market.

Versions of the Alternative can be readily affixed to standard-issue Glock and Sig Sauer pistols, but for now, no one knows how officers would perform with it under real-life stress. And no human being has been shot with it, Ellis said.

The device captures the first bullet only; the next round chambered is a regular one — that is, lethal — so if the Alternative should fail to stop its target, the second slug could be discharged.

Some bloggers and gun enthusiasts have excoriated Ellis’s product; one labeled it “terrifying,” the worst less-lethal force idea ever. They have gleefully taken note that the business end of the Alternative resembles a clown’s nose.

“The Bozo Bullet,” one critic called it.

“I get this all the time from police until they see it and shoot it,” Ellis said. “I’ve yet to have one agency or person anywhere in the world who has shot it and not instantly believed in its value.” He said the device should never be an option when officers feel that they or those around them are immediately imperiled; then lethal force is obviously required.


“There’s always this understandable tendency to find any kind of weapons that will cause the least amount of harm to avoid deadly force,” said Chuck Wexler of the Police Executive Research Forum, who submitted testimony on the topic last week to the presidential task force. He was unfamiliar with the Alternative, but he noted that other supposedly less-lethal approaches, such as the Taser, can still cause severe injury or death.

“The intentions are good here,” Wexler said. “The problem is when the technology gets too far out and advanced and there are not policies or guidelines.”

Eickhoff had been on the job in Ferguson for just six days before Michael Brown was shot. The world would soon after come to know “Ferguson” as shorthand for police brutality, racism and riots — bad PR that has tarred the force, deservedly or not, to this day.

So far, the Ferguson police department is the only domestic police agency that has decided to train with the Alternative. Its use must be approved by city officials. The units cost $45 each.

“Hopefully we can get it on the streets soon,” Eickhoff said. “Is it going to work every time? Probably not . . . it’s not a catch-all. Every situation is different. But it gives an officer, if time allows — and that’s important, if time allows — a chance to save a life instead of taking a life.”

Question: Could this thing have saved Brown? After a ruminative pause, Eickhoff offered that if Wilson’s fusillade of gunfire didn’t stop Brown, it’s not likely that a single-shot blunt-force projectile would have. “You could still shoot him with this round,” the assistant police chief said, “and he could still get up and come at you.”


Richard Leiby is a senior writer in Post’s Style section. His previous assignments have included Pakistan Bureau Chief, and reporter, columnist and editor in Washington. He joined The Post in 1991.


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Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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And now the City of Ferguson will soon go bankrupt as a result of lawsuits against it because of broken ribs, bruised groins, etc, etc, etc. The lawyers are watching this development and drooling and rubbing themselves in private places and smiling.


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Posts: 473 | Location: central Kansas | Registered: 26 December 2013Reply With Quote
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I have a saying for Ferguson....Less Thugs, More Peace.


Larry

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 3942 | Location: Kansas USA | Registered: 04 February 2002Reply With Quote
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Well, that development will be the end of the Ferguson PD, IMHO. Any officer with smarts will leave the department and recruitment will be zip. Talk about a department shooting itself in the foot (no pun intended).
 
Posts: 366 | Registered: 30 November 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
“Ferguson” as shorthand for police brutality, racism and riots


Ferguson, the once non-lethal St. Louis suburb, where my mother grew up, is now just one more added to the endless list of "communities" trashed by (the police??). It was probably the cops that were trying to burn down some buildings at the time of the incident?


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Posts: 19306 | Location: Ocala Flats | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Let's see if I got this?
A criminal is trying to kill me and I NEED to take the time to change ammo so I don't hurt him too bad?

In the time I'm decision making and changing ammo, he can finish killing me.

Less lethal to me means shooting you 3 times with my .45 instead of 2 times with my 10 gauge shotgun loaded with 19 pellets of 00 in each shell. (That is the same OO load that you get in 4 three inch 12 gauge shells).

Understand my thinking?
 
Posts: 5699 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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We went through this nonsense about lessthan lethal before .Where I come from BGs paint real guns like fakes and fake guns like real !! The cop who sees a problem has to make a FAST decision. No time to think of all the possibilities.
The bean bag rounds were one type but at long range were in effective but at close range they were devastating !
People need to teach their kids about reality, attack a cop and he shoots you !
 
Posts: 7636 | Registered: 10 October 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
(That is the same OO load that you get in 4 three inch 12 gauge shells).


I buy Rem 3 inch 00 12 that has 15 pellets per round so 4 of those would be 60
 
Posts: 19364 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
(That is the same OO load that you get in 4 three inch 12 gauge shells).


I buy Rem 3 inch 00 12 that has 15 pellets per round so 4 of those would be 60

ok, didn't know they made that load.
 
Posts: 5699 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 02 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Pattern your shotguns with buckshot. I've found lighter loads actually pattern better. Now that doesn't matter much at 15 feet, if that is the intended use.
 
Posts: 10007 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
quote:
(That is the same OO load that you get in 4 three inch 12 gauge shells).


I buy Rem 3 inch 00 12 that has 15 pellets per round so 4 of those would be 60



I use 000 Buck patterns better than the smaller 00 in my shotgun, hits harder as well


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Posts: 5077 | Location: USA | Registered: 11 March 2005Reply With Quote
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And the lawsuit by the widow when the cop shot someone with this POS and the perp killed him.
 
Posts: 10007 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Less lethal to me is full metal jacket as opposed to hollow-point, but the HNI .. no I won't do that ... Grand Poopah in Charge says full metal jackets should be banned. Go figure.
 
Posts: 10007 | Location: Houston, Texas | Registered: 26 December 2005Reply With Quote
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An officer can use a Taser when appropriate. If that doesn't work the officer still has a weapon available. This thing seems like trouble.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
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When time is of great importance use the most effective tool...a bullet generally works better

Cops enjoy excitement but only to a certain extent, that occurs when self preservation becomes apparent and this decision may only take a fraction of a second....would you waste that fraction of a second on anything less than the most proven and effective tool? 16 shot semi trumps a single burn from a taser especially if the clothing prevents skin contact

Why not allow people to carry tasers instead of hand guns?

In Illinois you can carry a firearm but not a taser....doesn't make sense but I am not a politician


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Posts: 2296 | Location: Monee, Ill. USA | Registered: 11 April 2001Reply With Quote
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How long until a cop gets killed because he has that thing on his gun when what he needs to save his life is multiple bullets right this second.
I could easily see some members of the public demanding the cops keep this "condom" on their gun until it is really determined deadly force is needed.

On the other hand, I'll bet we are not that far away from the invention of a gizmo that works really well without killing people. Maybe a tazer that nails everybody within a 10ft radius or something.






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Posts: 1511 | Location: cul va | Registered: 25 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Um, the goal of police shootings is not to kill but to stop the actions of the criminal. Whether the suspect lives or dies is up to the E/R docs.
 
Posts: 366 | Registered: 30 November 2006Reply With Quote
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Every policeman I see anymore is laden with a nightsticks, tasers, pepper spray etc. This contraption doesn't add anything it detracts from the most effective weapon they have.
 
Posts: 3174 | Location: Warren, PA | Registered: 08 August 2002Reply With Quote
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