My cousin is thinking of doing a DY in NZ. He was asking if I had any info and I have told him I would ask in AR. So.... what do you think. Is it feasible for 5 crazy young Spaniards to hunt Tar and chamois alone in Nz?

In these matters I am an ignoramous - but have gone that way myself, if only as an Aussie 'cousin'. I have had luck through contacts on AR and, as I recall, the NZ Deer Stalkers' Association, but your friends might have to get involved themselves. They might google some books on the subject and search all the outfitting advice here on AR.

For all I know, it might be possible to get some helicopter firm to drop the crew off in some popular but remote area of public land - and that will cost hundreds of dollars itself. Hiring mountain radios/satellite phones would be needed, to coordinate the chopper's return as they won't come in bad or even some cloudy weather.

I know Spain has mountain hunting, too, but it might be a little drier, if not warmer, than NZ, so hypothermia issues need to be taken seriously. Watch out with rivers and ice - and pick your time. IIRC early June might be as safe as any other. While I have always taken a tent, mountain stoves and warm sleeping bags, I never actually needed them because there seem to be huts in the valleys all over the place and rarely got cold enough to need even the bag. Take them all, anyway!

Now, back to normal programming ...

quote:

Originally posted by dwarf416:
My cousin is thinking of doing a DY in NZ. He was asking if I had any info and I have told him I would ask in AR. So.... what do you think. Is it feasible for 5 crazy young Spaniards to hunt Tar and chamois alone in Nz?

Yes certainly can DYH although I don't like the sound of "5 crazy young Spaniards". The New Zealand Southern Alps in summer, or worse winter, are not the environment to be crazy or even silly in. We have already had an Australian hunter lose his life Tahr hunting this year and every year we have very experienced mountaineers lose their lives in our Southern Alps. Our winter snowline is 3,000ft above which only snow grass grows and it is not like the hills in the "Sound of Music". They say that this level is equivalent in climate to 10,000ft in the Himalayas. Our snow is very 'wet' compared to snow in Europe, I have been in both and European snow is very dry and much more pleasant to hunt in.

I can say without contradiction that you will get no second chances when hunting in our Southern Alps for chamois and tahr. You make a mistake in winter and you will likely pay with your life. You will need good equipment especially if tent camping.

There are huts available in the tahr and chamois areas or you can tent camp in areas less frequented by other hunters. Using a chopper for access to and from the hunting area is safer and quicker. You can hire mountain radios, sat phones and PLBs at quite reasonable prices. The small cheap walkie talkie radios are good value too as you can communicate with each other during the day if hunting apart at prearranged times so is another safety device for your hunt.

A hunt on the Eastern side of the Alps is less strenuous but still has dangers in winter. Good equipment, clothing and boots and commonsense and care is what is needed when in Tahr country.

Welcome to Tahr country

My cousin will chime in as soon as he becomes a member. Thanks for all the info.

Yep you can do it. I take it by crazy you mean adventurous. My advice is to hunt no later than the end of May. Most years that will keep you out of the worst of the snow.
As eagle has said, our mountains are tough. 3 foreign hunters have died in them in the last 12 months.
Always remember that no animal is worth dying for. There is a great hut system that you can use and camping is good if you have the right weather.
Doc permits are easy to get and to bring in a rifle you just need a person in NZ with a licence who is willing to look after your guns when you are not hunting.
Helicopters are a great idea, but they can only take you to the more popular spots for much of the tahr range. walking in gives you more options. A really good idea is to enter the tahr ballot which will give you a week in one of the top areas by yourselves, then go do a seperate chamois hunt.

Absolutely NOT! Not alone. Not 5 crazy Spaniards or 5 Tarzans.

NZ bush & mountains can be dangerous. Weather can change suddenly.

You could go up a mountain on a sunny day & suddenly it starts to rain or snow & clouds up and how do you come down?

You could do a station hunt and get help to camp out etc.

I think I would be buying some guide time on this one . Young and crazy doesnt count for much in our mountains , but having a guide who knows his stuff does.

Dear all,

Thank you very much for your messages and to my uncle to introducing me in this chat.

First of all, I will like to clarify that we are aware of the dangers that an adventure like this may have and that is why I asked my uncle to put me in contact with local hunters in order to get some advice.

We consider unguided hunting in public areas in such amazing scenarios as the ultimate hunting trip. Our aim is to live an unforgettable experience in the wilderness and if lucky maybe harvest some Tahr or Chamois.

For us part of the challenge is to hunt by ourselves and not using the helicopter so the idea is to rent a car and try to reach a point in which we would start walking and spend 5-6 days in the mountains.

We have recently started to contact hunters so we do not have much information but what we already found isand I will like your help confirming that out thoughts are correct please):

• Best time to go: May looks like a good month because of the weather and also because is the time of the year the bull tahr/ chamois are with the nannies so are more active and visible. Do you agree with this?

• Where: This is also something that we have to investigate but last week we met two Spanish hunters that went to the Western side of the Alps without helicopter and they recommended us not to go there because they had a really hard experience. Also the problem with the weather in that part of the Alps is something to take into account because doing so long trip to have bad weather that prevents you from hunting is a real pisser so we think that we should go to the Eastern side of the Alps. The problem we see with this part of the Alps is that we do not want to go to the tourist hunting aereas where all the foreigners hunters go.

Can you please recommend me where can I found more information/ advise about good hunting areas in the Eastern side of the Alps?

Again, thank you very much for all your recommendations.

Regards,

Javier

My first comment is that 5-6 days is not long enough for a serious Tahr trip. It will take you the good part of a day at each end to walk into some of the closer hunting spots for tahr, and then to give 5 guys a decent chance of a good bull each you need much more time. It can take a day just to find and work out ways to hunt a bull. remember that you don't know the area you will be hunting so it will take time to find routes etc. You need 10 days minimum i think. that gives you time to relax a little, use your wet days productively and not have to rush to chase the first tahr you see.
Also you really need to do different trips for tahr and chamois to have a real chance of success on both. A chamois trip should not take so long but once again the longer the better.
I would really recommend you try this.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/parks-a...d-adams-tahr-ballot/
this is your best chance of a tahr bull in one week. It is fly in only as its too remote to walk, but it puts you right in amongst the best tahr country in NZ if you are successful.
Then do a walk in trip for chamois which is much easier to achieve and plan.
Don't write off the west coast. There are more animals and less hunters. Its about talking to guys like us who can tell you how to prepare and give tips to deal with the weather.

Listen to shankspony.

He is an experienced Tahr hunter and has taken an exceptional bull with a bow! I've seen some photos of his hunts and he is a real mountain man!

DIY sounds cool but in such dangerous country you need to get some local information that could save your life.

Have your thought of contacting NZ Deer Stalkers club and see if you can hunt with some of their members and exchange a Spanish hunt?

They are still looking for a Swedish hunter,it wouldnt be hard to add a Spanish hunter to the list.

The Swedish hunter is missing Just over the ridge from where i took you Gryph. Actually Its a place I would recommend to these guys too. Its no worse than any other and its just a case of accidents happen in mountains.
This is an interesting read put out by the NZ mountain safety council. Kiwi hunters are much more likely to die in the mountains than foreign ones.
https://issuu.com/nzmountainsa...6?e=2922887/36635838

Javier, hunting on the East Coast side of the Alps does offer much easier access where a 4WD vehicle can get right into the hunting area.
The Havelock River, a tributary of the Rangitata River is only a couple of hours from Christchurch City. There are several huts in this area you can drive to and several tributary streams coming into the Havelock, Rangitata and Forbes rivers. Reasonable numbers of red deer out on the river flats and edges too.

Glorious country in summer and autumn but still carries dangers in the winter when snow and ice coat the mountains. Access by 4WD is dependent on weather too as the rivers can rise very quickly. Need a good rugged 4WD with decent ground clearance and wading ability not an SUV type vehicle.

Access is free as are the DOC permits to hunt. There are hut fees (prepaid from DOC centres or some shops close to the area) although many do not pay. Nothing to stop you tenting for free anyway.

Some photos below of a trip into the Havelock River back in March, stayed in the pictured Growler Hut and hunted the Growler Creek area, Drove in one day and out the next and hunted evening and morning. Obviously is a popular area accessible by a good 4WD but plenty of room for hunting.

Looking across Rangitata River to the Havelock River.


Growler Hut


Growler Creek


Looking on up the Havelock River to the Southern Alp Main Divide

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
The Swedish hunter is missing Just over the ridge from where i took you Gryph. Actually Its a place I would recommend to these guys too. Its no worse than any other and its just a case of accidents happen in mountains.

You didnt 'take' me that was a fukn forced march lol.

And Im struggling to find anyone keen enough to head back there with. As soon as you say it takes two days to climb the hill to the camp they all back out.

Or they take a chopper,even into that "no chopper" zone as we saw with our own eyes.
Wherever their is game there are thieves.

Jeez, I may have to rethink my hunting its so dangerous...I am off to the West coast in a couple of week once more. Its getting through the long winter nights that worry me really...LOL

Hunting here can be as hard or as easy as you want to make it.
Just be prepared for extreme changes of weather, this is not a continental climate. That's the mistake most foreigners make. Also try and be as fit as you can. It is hard to enjoy yourself, or make good decisions when you are exhausted.

Another option is to come in November, when the weather is better, and the animals like tahr and chamois are much lower down. Also are to easier to spot too.

quote:

Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
Jeez, I may have to rethink my hunting its so dangerous...I am off to the West coast in a couple of week once more. Its getting through the long winter nights that worry me really...LOL

Hunting here can be as hard or as easy as you want to make it.
Just be prepared for extreme changes of weather, this is not a continental climate. That's the mistake most foreigners make. Also try and be as fit as you can. It is hard to enjoy yourself, or make good decisions when you are exhausted. Another option is to come in November, when the weather is better, and the animals like tahr and chamois are much lower down. Also are to easier to spot too.

A couple of possums in your sleeping bag and you'll sleep like a baby on those cold winter nights

You are correct, hunting can be as hard or as easy as you want it but you are astute enough to acknowledge that our climate can rapidly turn an easy hunt into a hard hunt.

Four years ago we choppered into our tahr ballot block after waiting out the first weekend before flying in (pilots advice) because of an expected storm in the alps which did transpire. A party from the North Island decided they would fly in on Saturday and would hunker down and ride out the storm. That night one tent blew away and the rest were damaged and they called for evacuation on the Sunday morning. The chopper could not get back in until after he dropped us into our block on Monday afternoon which was touch and go getting in to. He retrieved the other party as the weather improved towards Monday evening. They were wet, cold and lucky to get out alive, there ended their trip before it started. For the rest of the week we enjoyed warm sunny weather melting the snow and making for a very pleasant time, although still bitterly cold air temperatures at night and heavy frosts in the morning.

This is what we dropped into


A day or so later

I've been fortunate enough to have hunted most of the European mountain species and have now emigrated to NZ. From someone that's down a lot in Europe and now gaining experience in Nz with solo hunting Tahr and Chammy I would say with the costs of travelling here it would be worth hiring a guide or trying to find a local who would do a swap hunt with you.
The mountains here are a hell of a lot more dangerous in terms of the changeability of the weather and the hunting harder. You won't find game in the numbers that you do in Europe particularly your Spanish National Parks.
Id also suggest you get fit and then once you've done that get fitter! Last tahr hunt I did had daily 2000m altitude gains. If your not fit your not going to enjoy it or do it safely...
Listen to all the advice Shanks gives you - he's a bloody good bloke!

Thank you all for your replies!! all the information is very useful.

I will contact those of you that have experience there and I will update you with the plan!!

In the mean time, happy to hear new tips!

thank you

Been out in the ice and cold chasing Chamois and tahr the past couple of months.
My $5.00 worth and this is purely from a selfish commercial guide with way to much experience. GET A GUIDE.
Shanks offers sound advise.
Also be aware that, certainly the guides and increasingly many others are getting a tad frustrated with the non guided foriegn hunters pillaging our resource with out any significant investment in the management of that resource or indeed understanding of "how we do things down here". Its not a gripe at any one or group in particular so dont feel im singling you guys out.Well truthfully it is a gripe at you.
At the very least find someone with experience that can help you out with logistics. Research NZDA, Department of Conservation, Game Animal council. Be well prepared and equipped.Personally I'd encourage you to hunt on the Esatern side of the Alps, its safer and provides a more manageable climate. There's the other thing to understand, our weather,find Met Vum or similar and study it. As Shanks said May NOT June or July please.

quote:

GET A GUIDE.
Shanks offers sound advise.
Also be aware that, certainly the guides and increasingly many others are getting a tad frustrated with the non guided foriegn hunters pillaging our resource with out any significant investment in the management of that resource or indeed understanding of "how we do things down here".

Non- guided foreign hunters are pillaging our resources? You have got to be joking.


.

Yeah that comment pricks me a bit as well. The DIY hunters in NZ have had far less effect on the resource and kiwi hunters, than have the paying customers via their guides.
I have been involved in a few conversations on this and the frustration when its all boiled down, is from the guides who are not getting a cut.

Yes and the guides in NZ also want to start a tipping culture.

I have hunted with Highlander 20+ years ago & think he is a great guide.

But I disagree with him on this one.

Ok pillage, may not have been a word wisely chosen.
Let's try "freedom hunters" right there with freedom campers,low inputs into our economy and to generalize bringing nothing to enhance our hunting resources.
Yes ,its "nice'of use to open our borders and natural resources to visitors but in this day and age they must contribute and comform to our norms. Norms that are changing as our wild animals are slowly being recognised as a valuable resource, in this instance Id like to see a couple of "good keen men" head to Spain and try and go hunting for ibex or chamois or stags without regulation and considerable expense. Fine to protect OUR resources for NZ recreational hunters but DO NOT give it away to foreign hunters for nothing.let the guides do what we are good at.
As for tipping ,well thats been debated enuf,its not so much what the guides encourage its what our clients bring with them, good,bad ,or otherwise.
I would like to debate the overseas hunters without reference to guiding,which obviously many of you see as a blight on your hunting, so be it, BUT why let foreign hunters steal your resource? Guides could actually help you with this if you think seriously about it.

I have never paid a guide to hunt but I have enjoyed swap hunting in various other countries,yep by swapping and the enjoyment I have had with no expectations has been fantastic.And the costs are an airfare and a few sundries.

That is what a lot of hunters do as many cant justify the price of various hunts around the globe,we go there,they come here.The Guides dip out on that money of course much to their annoyance!

Price of an Aussie Buff hunt? 10 -12 grand..I dont know exactly the pricing but I do know blokes that swap buff hunts for deer hunts.

quote:

Originally posted by highlander:
Ok pillage, may not have been a word wisely chosen.
Let's try "freedom hunters" right there with freedom campers,low inputs into our economy and to generalize bringing nothing to enhance our hunting resources.
Yes ,its "nice'of use to open our borders and natural resources to visitors but in this day and age they must contribute and comform to our norms. Norms that are changing as our wild animals are slowly being recognised as a valuable resource, in this instance Id like to see a couple of "good keen men" head to Spain and try and go hunting for ibex or chamois or stags without regulation and considerable expense. Fine to protect OUR resources for NZ recreational hunters but DO NOT give it away to foreign hunters for nothing.let the guides do what we are good at.
As for tipping ,well thats been debated enuf,its not so much what the guides encourage its what our clients bring with them, good,bad ,or otherwise.
I would like to debate the overseas hunters without reference to guiding,which obviously many of you see as a blight on your hunting, so be it, BUT why let foreign hunters steal your resource? Guides could actually help you with this if you think seriously about it.

This attitude Im seeing a lot of from the guiding community at the moment. Quite frankly it is pissing me off. Non guided Hunters coming to nz spend as much as any other tourist. Its just they are not using your services so you guys feel you need to change the rules.
What are guided hunters doing to enhance our resources? They are 100% of the ones contributing to helihunting. They are the ones who contribute to private land being locked up for commercial use. They are the ones putting the pressure on our fisheries and creating the conflict between tourists and local anglers.
What do NZ outfitters contribute to our hunting resource?
While you selectively use spain, I can tell you I have hunted australia, sweden, america with very little cost other than airfares and living expense. I will be hunting england , germany romania over next few years on the same deal and actually have been offered a swap hunt in spain as well.
what we do need is tag fees, but those don't go to guides, they go to our resource and we need then for kiwis to pay as well. 28 thousand tourist hunters last year compared to 166 thousand kiwi hunters.
The only benefit to making foreign hunters use guides is to the guides. who will the use that income to marginalise kiwi hunters further.

Shanks you are so right.

Highlander I don't deny you the opportunity to make a living at something you enjoy but I will fight to the bitter end if you try through some sort of shoddy trade practice "rule" to reduce the opportunities for others - if the Guides Assn and other commercial users of our public hunting resource don't start getting the message then the message will come to them via every legal means - DOC have been taken to court successfully (Ruahines WARO) and this sets a very useful precedent - not in terms of the decision but rather the process of kiwi hunters getting organised enough to really make a difference.

Our hunting has a long history of sharing and do-it yourself, long may it continue. I have for many years (and will continue to) taken young guys of many nationalities (including kiwi's)hunting (for Tahr) for free because I enjoy it.

Well hell this thread is making me think about a return trip to NZ. I used a guide last time for a free range Red and a Fallow. Took my Chamoi on my own on public land. I need a Thar and if I'm going that far, maybe something else as well.

This excuse that the clients bring the tipping culture with them is a smoke screen.

Why not reduce the hunt cost then & add the tip option for US hunters?

This is double dipping and it really rankles! Same with the Aussie guides.

quote:

Originally posted by highlander:
Ok pillage, may not have been a word wisely chosen.
Let's try "freedom hunters" right there with freedom campers,low inputs into our economy and to generalize bringing nothing to enhance our hunting resources.
Yes ,its "nice'of use to open our borders and natural resources to visitors but in this day and age they must contribute and comform to our norms. Norms that are changing as our wild animals are slowly being recognised as a valuable resource, in this instance Id like to see a couple of "good keen men" head to Spain and try and go hunting for ibex or chamois or stags without regulation and considerable expense. Fine to protect OUR resources for NZ recreational hunters but DO NOT give it away to foreign hunters for nothing.let the guides do what we are good at.
As for tipping ,well thats been debated enuf,its not so much what the guides encourage its what our clients bring with them, good,bad ,or otherwise.
I would like to debate the overseas hunters without reference to guiding,which obviously many of you see as a blight on your hunting, so be it, BUT why let foreign hunters steal your resource? Guides could actually help you with this if you think seriously about it.

Foreign hunters are not stealing our hunting resource. They are most welcome, and encouraged to hunt here freely and without a guide

It is guided operators who are the most despised part of the NZ hunting community, and who are considered be pillaging our resources for their own personal gain.

The notion that a guide would describe foreign hunters as 'pillaging our resources' or as thieves ("steal our resouce" you also said) simply because he isn't making any money off them, is just well, despicable.
Considering what the NZ hunter has to put up with with from guideded and helihunting outfits, with the land and access locked up, the choppers, and the helihunting ethics that the guides are trying to pass off as the NZ 'norm' simply because it generates easier ways of making money for them...and all of it off our hunting resources.

That really was a dumb thing to say.

Javier,
You may consider Chamois and Red Deer in march or April also

Well said and true.

If only those foreign hunters knew how much they at times get conned by those that are on selling game.

Dear all,

We finally went to New Zeland this month and we really had a good time. First trip at the west coast very successful with a really good weather and second trip to the east cost worst in terms of hunting because of the weather but we really had a good time there.

Thank you all for your recommendations and congratulation for the fantastic country you have!!

Looking forward to returning in a future with my family!

Regards,

Javier,
Thankyou for the update and I'm happy to hear you enjoyed successful hunting. Timing of your West Coast hunt must have been very lucky as we have had a lot of unusually wet weather so far this year, even for the West Coast known for it's high rainfall. Hopefully you can return to get a nicer hunt experience on the eastern side of the alps also.
Any chance you could post a few hunt photos ? I'm sure many would appreciate some pics as this thread generated a lot of comment and interest.
Cheers.

Hi Javier
Great to hear you have journeyed to our country and had a good experience hunting here. It would be good to see some photos if you can post them.

Myself, two of my sons and two of their friends are flying in to the middle of our alps at the end of this week for 7 days tahr hunting on one of the DOC balloted hunting blocks. These are areas with no huts and realistically only accessible by helicopter which is allowed for only 8 weeks over May and June for those like myself lucky enough to win a block.

Not wishing to detract from your hunt or reignite too much of a robust debate but I have copied some information published by DOC in respect of the tahr balloted blocks, highlighting (in bold text) that despite winning a block where no other hunters are allowed during the May/June ballot season, other than the weekly ballot winners, aerial-assisted trophy hunting (spot, alight and shoot or likely sometimes spot and shoot from the chopper) is still permitted in these blocks for some of the time.

On a previous occasion when hunting in one of these blocks we have seen a helicopter flying over from the East Coast side of the Alps spending some time further down our block and then returning with a trophy bull hanging underneath the chopper. Obviously a visiting trophy hunter having a 'successful' hunt. I don't care too much for how that hunt took place but it would be nice if aerial assisted trophy hunting was NOT permitted during the balloted block weeks. There are plenty of other good tahr hunting areas on the East and West Coasts outside of the balloted areas that could be used for aerial assisted hunting during May and June.

Aerial access
In the 2018 ballot, recreational hunters will have some managed aerial access into the Hooker / Landsborough and Adams Wilderness Areas made available under the terms of the ‘Himalayan Tahr Control Plan’, approved by the Minister of Conservation in 1993. This reflects the identification in the plan of recreational tahr hunting as one of the primary controls for tahr in particular areas.
Managed aerial access is being provided to position recreational hunters, and will be for a limited period of May to June. This period was selected to limit effects on other wilderness users and to coincide with the tahr rut and the period when skins are at their best.
Recreational hunters are being given this access to help reduce tahr densities to the target levels set in the tahr control plan. While a hunter’s chief objective may be trophy bulls, the Department encourages all hunters to remove nannies and juveniles in the process, and to reduce group sizes to less than five animals.

Aerial operators
The right to fly recreational hunters into these sites will be issued to approved operators. Hunters are free to select a servicing operator from this list. Operators not appearing on the list may not be used.
Aerial-assisted trophy hunting using a helicopter will be permitted in the Wilderness Areas during part of the ballot period.
Apart from this, no helicopter wild-animal carcass or live recovery for deer, chamois or tahr is allowed during the ballot period in the Wilderness Areas. If you see any of this happening, record as much information as possible including helicopter registration (numbers and letters displayed on the machine) photos or video footage, and report this to the nearest DOC office as soon as possible so there can be an investigation.

aerial assisted trophy hunting WTF!

I wouldn't exactly call that 'hunting'

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
aerial assisted trophy hunting WTF!

I wouldn't exactly call that 'hunting'

I guess when you return to your country of origin and hang a glorious bull tahr trophy on the wall or have a full body mounted animal in your trophy den like minded trophy hunters will not give a shit about how you got it, they'll be green with envy and fawn all over you for the great trophy hunter they think you are. You will have some magnificent photos and video to show, just get the camera angles correct to not show the idling chopper in the back ground waiting for you to hop back into with your trophy animal hanging underneath.
Someone posed with their trophy bull tahr in a hunt report on this forum a few years back and told us how the chopper had baled it up in some scrub whereupon our intrepid trophy hunter jumped out and shot it with a 12 gauge shotgun. I don't ever remembering him posting again after that interesting admission.

Weathered and Shanks have said the same for years.


Quote "like minded trophy hunters will not give a shit about how you got it"EQ

Nor will they when they line up to throw their dollars into the mix also.
It irks to see 6-8 species taken in one week with live captured Tahr shot on green lawns....all in the wild with no choppers or fences.

quote:

I guess when you return to your country of origin and hang a glorious bull tahr trophy on the wall or have a full body mounted animal in your trophy den like minded trophy hunters will not give a shit about how you got it, they'll be green with envy and fawn all over you for the great trophy hunter they think you are. You will have some magnificent photos and video to show, just get the camera angles correct to not show the idling chopper in the back ground waiting for you to hop back into with your trophy animal hanging underneath.

You might be right, this could be how it is for certain "hunters". I don't mix with people in this strata of society but having observed I have wondered if this behaviour is due to having money, and having this means allows them to become collectors of sorts where they enjoy the gain without the pain. I struggle to regard such types as hunters. Why they want to "collect" trophies is beyond me but maybe despite themselves they too harbour that deep predatory instinct in all men ( and some women ! ) that connects us to the need to hunt. In a way I feel sorry for them and wonder if at some point in their past they ever experienced genuine endeavour where success in the field and on the hill was really earned with the hard yards of proper hunting.