Usually we get them all poking in to see how the poorer half of the world live under our opressive gun regimes particularly during critical times with advice on how to handle our affairs and the correct exercise of democracy as they would do it.


They seem awful quiet right now Seem to be pretty busy with all the civil mischief, city occupations, historcial monument destruction and other democratic processes they enjoy. I guess they just dont have time to check in on us right now

Right now Id take their system over our current one. neither is perfect as only as good as the people who represent us.

Not a dig at their system, more a general comment on busybodying.

Karl, What you see on tv is exactly what the news networks want you to see. I’m appalled at what the kiwis are dealing with right now, but it’s none of my business.

We have issues over here no doubt, but only the ugly stuff makes the news. Did you hear about the demonstration March that took place in my town? Of course you didn’t because it was perfectly peaceful and a media non event!

Don’t assume that what you hear on the news is accurate.

the police chief just south of me bought the local protesters soda and pizza so they wouldn't get hungry or thirsty.

the town just a bit north had about 2,000 armed citizens wandering the main street at the rumor of outside protestors showing up.
they showed, U-turned the busses at the edge of town and beat it.

neither incident made the news.[other than our local weekly news paper]

Karl the oppressive gun regimes down your way are just too distressing to worry about. I have enough on my plate.

quote:

Originally posted by zeeriverrat1:
Karl, What you see on tv is exactly what the news networks want you to see. I’m appalled at what the kiwis are dealing with right now, but it’s none of my business.

We have issues over here no doubt, but only the ugly stuff makes the news. Did you hear about the demonstration March that took place in my town? Of course you didn’t because it was perfectly peaceful and a media non event!

Don’t assume that what you hear on the news is accurate.

I agree about media but I am thinking the protests must be having some impact for government officials to be removing monuments to appease them?

Its hard to work out who is doing more damage to US history here, the protesters or officials? Will they put these back, permanently decommission or the old classic hide them in old meuseums and cemetaries where the public doesnt get to be upset by them?

I highlighted a few of the pertinent fields in bold, far too many for me to edit the whole list but it runs right down the page.

Which of these reports are fake news?


"Items damaged by protesters or removed by vote.


Statue of Charles Linn May 31 Toppled by protesters Toppled by protesters who unsuccessfully attempted to remove the nearby Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument. [9]


Anson County Courthouse Confederate monument Anson County Courthouse, facade 02.jpg Wadesboro North Carolina July 7 July 8 Removed by county. [10] Removed by county. [10]


Statue of Henry Watkins Allen - Port Allen Louisiana July 8 The Port Allen City Council has requested that West Baton Rouge Parish remove the statue. [11] The Port Allen City Council has requested that West Baton Rouge Parish remove the statue. [11]


Bolivar County Confederate Monument WCHandyBluesTrailMarker.jpg Cleveland Mississippi July 6 County Commissioners voted unanimously to relocate the statue. [12] County Commissioners voted unanimously to relocate the statue. [12]
Lowndes County, Mississippi, Confederate soldier - Columbus Mississippi July 6 Vote of County Commissioners was unanimous. [12]


Washington County, Mississippi, Confederate Monument - Greenville Mississippi


June By County. [12]


Leflore County Confederate Monument - Greenwood Mississippi June By County. [12]


Iberville Parish Confederate Monument Plaquemine Louisiana June 16 Parish Council voted unanimously for removal. Parish Council voted unanimously for removal. [13]
[14]


Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument Birmingham Alabama May 31 June 1 Removed by city Removed by city The mayor said the expected $25,000 fine for violating the Alabama Memorial Preservation Act would be more affordable than the cost of continued unrest. [15]
[16]
[17]


Bust of Robert E. Lee Fort Myers Florida June 1 June 1 Removed by Sons of Confederate Veterans Removed from downtown by its owner, the Sons of Confederate Veterans. [18]


Statue of Robert E. Lee at Robert E. Lee High School Montgomery Alabama – June 1 Toppled by protesters Four people were charged with felony criminal mischief over removal of this statue. [19]


Bentonville Confederate Monument Bentonville Confederate Monument Bentonville Arkansas June 1 – Plans for removal by United Daughters of the Confederacy Removal announced during protests [20]


Athens Confederate Monument Athens Confederate Monument Athens Georgia June 2 Plans for removal by city The mayor and city commissioners announced plans to remove the monument. [21] Plans for removal by city The mayor and city commissioners announced plans to remove the monument. [21]
[22]


Nash County Confederate Monument Rocky Mount North Carolina June 2 June 30 Dismantled and placed in storage The City Council of Rocky Mount voted to remove the monument. [23] Dismantled and placed in storage The City Council of Rocky Mount voted to remove the monument. [23]

[24]


Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument Indianapolis Indiana June 4 June 8 Removed by city A resolution to remove the monument passed the Indianapolis Parks Board in 2017, but was not funded. The mayor announced it would be removed. [25]
[26]
[27]


Statue of Raphael Semmes Statue of Raphael Semmes Mobile Alabama June 5 June 5 Removed by city Statue of Confederate Navy Admiral Raphael Semmes removed from downtown on orders of Mayor Sandy Stimpson. [28] Statue of Confederate Navy Admiral Raphael Semmes removed from downtown on orders of Mayor Sandy Stimpson. [28]
[29]


Statue of Sam Davis Nashville Tennessee June 5 June 12 Removed by school Removed by school Statue of Confederate soldier Sam Davis removed from the campus of Montgomery Bell Academy. [30]

[31]


John B. Castleman Monument John B. Castleman Monument Louisville Kentucky June 8 June 8 Removed by city Removed by city Statue of John Breckinridge Castleman removed to be placed at his burial at Cave Hill Cemetery. [32]


Jacksonville Confederate Monument Jacksonville Confederate Monument Jacksonville Florida June 9 June 9 Removed by city Removed by city Overnight removed the monument from a Confederate monument in Hemming Park, leaving an empty pedestal. [33]


Denton Confederate Soldier Monument Denton Confederate Soldier Memorial Denton Texas June 9 ~June 25 Removed by County Denton County commissioners voted to remove and relocate the monument. [34]
[35]
[36]


The Grandstand
Confederate Memorial Services Jacksonville Florida June 9 – Plans for removal by city Mayor announced removal of all Confederate monuments, memorials, and markers, including this in Old City Cemetery. [37] Mayor announced removal of all Confederate monuments, memorials, and markers, including this in Old City Cemetery. [37]


Confederate Monument Monument to Confederate war soldiers Fort Worth Texas June 9 June 13 Removed by Tarrant County County commission voted to remove the monument in front of Tarrant County Courthouse. [38] Removed by Tarrant County County commission voted to remove the monument in front of Tarrant County Courthouse. [38]
[39]


Florida's Tribute to the Women of the Confederacy Monument to the Women of the Southland Jacksonville Florida June 9 – Plans for removal by city Mayor announced removal of all Confederate monuments, memorials, and markers, including this one in Confederate Park. [37]


Multiple historic markers Jacksonville Florida June 10 – Plans for removal by Mayor Lenny Curry Announced plans to remove all Confederate monuments including these 8 items: Plans for removal by Mayor Lenny Curry Announced plans to remove all Confederate monuments including these 8 items: Maple Leaf at Northbank Riverwalk, Maple Leaf at Walter Jones Historical Park, Florida Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Home marker in Old City Cemetery, Line of Entrenchment at old Jacksonville Terminal, Skirmish At Cedar Creek at Lenox Avenue, 1914 United Confederate Veteran's Reunion at Confederate Park, 23 informational signs and 58 tree signs at Camp Milton Historic Preserve, and In Memory of Our Beloved Ancestors – Ground Marker at Old City Cemetery. [37]


Confederate Soldier Memorial Confederate Soldier Memorial Huntsville Alabama June 10 – Removal authorized by Madison County Commission; requires final approval by state review committee. The memorial, constructed in 1905, is located in front of the Madison County Courthouse. The county would be fined $25,000 if it removed the memorial without state approval under a 2017 law designed to protect historical structures and monuments. [40]


Gloria Victis Gloria Victis Salisbury North Carolina June 11 July 6–7 Two unanimous votes by city council, plus police chief declared it a risk to public safety June 20, UDC signed the city's proposal to have the sculpture moved to Old Lutheran Cemetery. [41]
[42]
[43]


Spirit of the Confederacy Spirit of the Confederacy Houston Texas June 11 June 17 Removed by city To be moved to the Houston Museum of African American Culture. [44]
[45]
[46]


Statue of Richard W. Dowling Statue of Richard W. Dowling Houston Texas June 11 – Plans for removal by city Plans for removal by city Initial plans to relocate the statue of Dick Dowling to Sabine Pass Battleground State Historic Site were scuttled following objections by the mayor of Port Arthur. [47]
[44]


Gadsden Confederate Memorial Gadsden Confederate Memorial Quincy Florida June 11 June 11 Removed by County Commissioners Removed from the front of the Gadsden County Courthouse. Will be relocated within six months. [48]
[49]
[50]


Confederate War Memorial The Confederate War Memorial in 2006 Dallas Texas June 12 June 24 Removed by city To prevent protester injuries during potential vandalism attempts, the monument has been placed in storage, pending resolution of legal dispute over final disposition. [51][52]


DeKalb County Confederate Monument DeKalb County Confederate Monument Decatur Georgia June 12 June 18 Monument removal ordered by Georgia Superior Court Justice The monument was ordered removed by Superior Court Justice Clarence Seeliger on the grounds that it constituted a public nuisance under the Georgia code. The monument was ordered removed by Superior Court Justice Clarence Seeliger on the grounds that it constituted a public nuisance under the Georgia code. [53]
[54]


Statue of Jefferson Davis Jefferson Davis by Frederick Cleveland Hibbard - Kentucky State Capitol - DSC09226.JPG Frankfort Kentucky June 12 June 13 State The Historic Properties Advisory Commission voted to move the statue from the capitol rotunda to the Jefferson Davis State Historic Site. Removed the following day. [55]


Stand Watie and Confederate Soldier Fountain GENERAL VIEW OF FRONT ELEVATION WITH OBELISK MONUMENT IN FOREGROUND, FROM WEST - Cherokee National Capitol Building, 101-29 South Muskogee Avenue, Tahlequah, Cherokee County, OK HABS OKLA,11-TAHL,2-2.tif Tahlequah Oklahoma June 13 June 13 Removed by Cherokee Nation Removed by Cherokee Nation Watie headed the Confederate-allied Cherokee. The fountain was dedicated in 1913 by the Daughters of the Confederacy rather than the Cherokee Nation. [56]


Stand Watie Monument Tahlequah Oklahoma June 13 June 13 Removed by Cherokee Nation Removed by Cherokee Nation The monument was dedicated in 1921 by the Daughters of the Confederacy rather than the Cherokee Nation. [56]


Pitt County Confederate Soldiers Monument Confederate statue - Pitt County Courthouse - Greenville, North Carolina.jpg Greenville North Carolina June 15 June 22 C ounty County, which owns the statue, voted to remove immediately ounty County, which owns the statue, voted to remove immediately under "reason of threatened public safety". [57]
[58]


Zebulon Baird Vance Monument Vance Monument - Asheville, NC.jpg Asheville North Carolina June 16 Scaffolding built, monument shrouded on July 9. Asheville City Council and Buncombe County Council City and County councils both unanimously passed a joint-resolution to remove monument. United Daughters of the Confederacy must remove it immediately, or the city and county will remove it. City and County councils both unanimously passed a joint-resolution to remove monument. United Daughters of the Confederacy must remove it immediately, or the city and county will remove it. [59]
[60]


Montgomery County Confederate Soldiers Monument White's Ferry, Dickerson Maryland June 16 Removed by private owner, who also renamed Gen. Jubal A. Early ferry boat. Until 2017, had stood in front of the Montgomery County courthouse in Rockville, Maryland. [61]


Hey Reb! Hey Reb! Las Vegas Nevada June 16 June 16 Removed by the University of Nevada, Removed by the University of Nevada, Las Vegas The statue is a representation of Hey Reb!, the mascot of the UNLV Rebels. It was donated to the university in 2007 and was situated outside the Richard Tam Alumni Center before its removal. [62]


Monument to 60th Regt. NC Volunteers Asheville North Carolina June 17 — Removal authorized by Buncombe County Commission Located in front of the county courthouse. The Daughters of Confederacy have 90 days to remove the monument Removal authorized by Buncombe County Commission Located in front of the county courthouse. The Daughters of Confederacy have 90 days to remove the monument. [63]


Robert E. Lee Dixie Highway, Colonel John Connally Marker Confederate Memorial, Asheville, NC (45829088515).jpg Asheville North Carolina June 17 — Removal authorized by Buncombe County Commission Located in front of the county courthouse. The Daughters of Confederacy have 90 days to remove the marker. Removal authorized by Buncombe County Commission Located in front of the county courthouse. The Daughters of Confederacy have 90 days to remove the marker. [63]


Jefferson Davis Memorial Boulder Brownsville Texas June 17 City of Brownsville Removed from Washington Park [64]


Robert E. Lee Highway Marker San Diego California June 18 Removed by San Diego Parks and Recreation and Stockdale Capital Partners Removed by San Diego Parks and Recreation and Stockdale Capital Partners The marker was located in the Horton Plaza Park prior to its removal. [65]


Memorial to Company A, Capitol Guards Memorial to Company A, Capitol Guards Little Rock Arkansas June 18 Removed by city The statue will be placed in storage until a location can be found for it. until a location can be found for it. [66]


North Carolina State Confederate Monument North Carolina State Confederate Monument Raleigh North Carolina June 19 June 19 Two statues toppled by protesters; remainder removed by work crew Protesters pulled down the two statues at the base of the monument, dragging one through the streets and hanging it from a street light. Removal of remainder ordered by Governor Roy Cooper shortly afterward. [67]
[68]


Albert Pike Memorial The statue of Albert Pike Washington District of Columbia June 19 Toppled and set afire by protesters during Juneteenth The statue was wrapped in chains before it was toppled. The D.C. government wanted to remove the work in 2017, but could not do so without an act of Congress. [69] [70] The D.C. government wanted to remove the work in 2017, but could not do so without an act of Congress. [69]
[70]
[71]
[72]


Pine Bluff Confederate Monument The Pine Bluff Confederate Monument Pine Bluff Arkansas June 20 June 20 County Judge and United Daughters of the Confederacy The statue was removed from the Jefferson County Courthouse as part of a cooperative agreement between Jefferson County Judge Gerald Robinson and the United Daughters of the Confederacy. The statue was transferred to an undisclosed location where it can be cleaned and repaired [73]


Statue of Henry Lawson Wyatt Henry Lawson Wyatt by Gutzon Borglum - DSC05862.JPG Raleigh North Carolina – June 21 Work crew Removal ordered by Governor Roy Cooper after protesters removed statues at base of Confederate Monument. [68]


Monument to North Carolina Women of the Confederacy[a] Women of the Confederacy by Augustus Lukeman - DSC05875.JPG Raleigh North Carolina – June 21 Work crew Removal ordered by Governor Roy Cooper Removal ordered by Governor Roy Cooper after protesters removed statues at base of Confederate Monument. [68]


Confederate Soldiers' Memorial Bridge sign and statue Clarksville Tennessee Week of June 15 Removed by city The sign and monument were allegedly removed for their own protection. [74]


Confederate soldier grave marker Confederate Memorial, Silver Spring, MD.jpg Silver Spring Maryland June 17 Toppled by protesters The statue was located at Grace Episcopal Church. It marked the remains of seventeen unidentified Confederate soldiers killed during the Battle of Fort Stevens. [75]


Confederate Monument Oxford Mississippi June 18 Planned to move monument at University of Mississippi to university cemetery. [76] Planned to move monument at University of Mississippi to university cemetery. [76]


Confederate Memorial Obelisk St. Augustine Florida June 22 City commissioners voted 3–2 on June 22, 2020 to move the obelisk. [77]


"To our Confederate dead" monument Confederate Monument Louisburg North Carolina June 22 June 29 Louisburg Town Council voted to move the monument to Oakwood Cemetery. [78]
[79]


Our Confederate Soldiers Confederate Monument, Wiess Park, Beaumont, Texas.jpg Beaumont Texas June 23 June 29 City Council of Beaumont voted to remove it. [80]
[81]


Confederate Memorial Confederate Memorial Wilmington North Carolina Not announced June 25 Temporarily removed by city [82]


George Davis Monument George Davis Monument Wilmington North Carolina Not announced June 25 Temporarily removed by city Davis was a Confederate senator and Attorney General. [82]


Confederate Memorial Minden Confederate monument 1946.jpg Minden Louisiana Not announced June 26 Removed by owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy [83]


Confederate Monument Confederate Monument Fayetteville North Carolina Not announced June 27 Removed by owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy [84]


Monument to Confederate Dead (Haymount area) Monument to Confederate Dead in Fayetteville NC image 2.jpg Fayetteville North Carolina Not announced June 27 Removed by owners, Sons of Confederate Veterans and United Daughters of the Confederacy. [85]


Lowndes County, Alabama, Confederate Monument Hayneville Alabama June 29 Removal ordered by county The memorial is located near the Lowndes County Courthouse. The county expects to be fined under the Alabama Memorial Preservation Act. [86]


Kanawha Riflemen memorial Charleston West Virginia June 29 June 29 Removed by city The monument consisted of a standing commemorative plaque connected to two stone benches; the benches were not removed. [87]


Statue of Confederate soldier Monument to the Unknown Confederate Soldiers Mount Olivet Cemetery06262012.JPG Frederick Maryland June 29 (discovered) Toppled and beheaded; not likely to be repaired. [88]


Rockdale County Confederate Monument Rockdale County Confederate Monument Conyers Georgia Not announced June 30 Removed by Rockdale County Commission [89]
[90]
[91]


Confederate Monument Confed memorial 1272.JPG Orangeburg South Carolina June 30 Removal requires a ​2⁄3 vote of the South Carolina Legislature. Orangeville City Council voted unanimously for removal. [92] Removal requires a ​2⁄3 vote of the South Carolina Legislature. Orangeville City Council voted unanimously for removal. [92]


Confederate Monument (Cross Creek Cemetery) Confederate Soldiers Monument (1868), Fayetteville, North Carolina.jpg Fayetteville North Carolina Not announced June 30 Removed by owner. The oldest Confederate monument in North Carolina [93]


Slave whipping post Georgetown Delaware June 29 July 1 Removed by state Removed by state [94]


Statue of Alfred Mouton Lafayette Louisiana July 1 Lafayette mayor made public statement; asks 1980 injunction be lifted [95]


Two statues commemorating specific events McConnellsburg Pennsylvania July 2 The first statue is a historical marker commemorating a skirmish that killed two Confederate soldiers separated from their unit. The second memorial commemorates a meal given to Confederate soldiers by McConnellsburg residents after the 1864 burning of Chambersburg. Two historical markers, noting the same events, were also removed. [96]


Mt. Zion Confederate Monument Cornelius North Carolina July 2 Church Board asked for its removal Church Board asked for its removal [97]


Monument to Confederate Brigadier General Albert G. Jenkins Hampden Township Pennsylvania July 3 (confirmed) Removed by owner of land [98]


Statue of Private Benjamin Welch Owens Lothian Maryland July 3 (discovered) Toppled by protesters Also vandalized in June [99]


United Confederate Veterans Memorial Seattle - Lake View Cemetery - Confederate Veterans memorial.jpg Seattle Washington – July 3/4 Toppled by protesters The monument was toppled by unknown persons, apparently on July 3, 2020. In the process, the lower ends of both formerly vertical columns were broken in multiple places. [100]


Judah P. Benjamin Monument Sarasota Florida Mid-June July 5 R emoved by city manager Removed along with a marker dedicated to Benjamin. [101] emoved by city manager Removed along with a marker dedicated to Benjamin. [101]


Cape Girardeau Confederate Memorial Cape Girardeau Confederate Memorial Cape Girardeau Missouri July 6 City Council voted to remove it. [102]


Lee Square Confederate Monument Confederate Monument, Lee Square, Pensacola, Florida.jpg Pensacola Florida July 7 The City of Pensacola is calling for its removal. Lee Square may also be renamed Florida Square. Lee Square may also be renamed Florida Square. The monument was vandalized with red paint the night of June 29. [103]
[104]


Henry County Confederate Monument Confederate Memorial, McDonough, GA, US.jpg McDonough Georgia July 7 Henry County Commission voted for removal. [105]


Statue of Jefferson Davis Hwy. 99 near Bakersfield California July 8 June 17 (three weeks before announcement) Moved by County to storage area at Kern County Museum [106] Moved by County to storage area at Kern County Museum [106]


Greensboro Confederate Statue (Green Hill Cemetery) Greensboro North Carolina July 6 July 7 Toppled by protestors; moved to storage. [107]
[108]
Virginia
See also: List of Confederate monuments and memorials in Virginia and Monument Avenue

Virginia, where the CSA had its capital in Richmond, has the most Confederate monuments of any U.S. state. A March 2020 change in the law of Virginia had already essentially repealed the statute preventing removal of historical monuments, effective from July 1, 2020. This change became possible when voters, after electing the Democrat Ralph Northam as Governor in 2017, gave the Democrats control of both houses of the Virginia General Assembly from January 2020, for the first time in a generation.[109]
Monument/memorial City State Removal announced Removed Means of removal Description Ref
Appomattox Appomattox statue Alexandria Virginia – May 31 Removed by United Daughters of the Confederacy The owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, moved the date up because of the protests. [110] May 31 Removed by United Daughters of the Confederacy The owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, moved the date up because of the protests. [110]


Norfolk Confederate Monument Norfolk Confederate Monument Norfolk Virginia June 2 June 16 Removed by city Removed by city City Council approved removal; located at a former slave auction site. Johnny Reb statue atop the monument removed June 12; rest of monument removed by June 16. [111]
[112]
[113]


Robert E. Lee Monument Robert E. Lee Monument Richmond Virginia June 3 – Plans for removal by state Governor announced removal "as soon as possible"; monument on state land. Plans for removal by state Governor announced removal "as soon as possible"; monument on state land. [114]
[115]


J. E. B. Stuart Monument J. E. B. Stuart Monument Richmond Virginia June 3 July 7 Removed by city of Richmond.[116] Planned removal of the four Confederate monuments on city land.[117] After the JEB Stuart statue was removed, the Robert E. Lee statue became the last remaining Confederate monument located on Richmond's Monument Avenue.[118] {{{9}}}
Stonewall Jackson Monument Stonewall Jackson Monument Richmond Virginia June 3 July 1 Removed by City of Richmond Planned removal of the four Confederate monuments on city land. [117]

[119]


Matthew Fontaine Maury Monument Matthew Fontaine Maury Monument Richmond Virginia June 3 July 2 Removed by City of Richmond One of the four Confederate monuments on city land. [117]


Slave Auction Block Slave auction block Fredericksburg Virginia 2019 June 5 Removed by city A slave auction block was removed from the downtown and will be displayed in the Fredericksburg Area Museum. [120]


Robert E. Lee Memorial Roanoke Virginia June 5 After July 1 Roanoke City Council City Council voted to start the legal process to remove the monument and rename Lee Plaza. [121]


Statue of Williams Carter Wickham Statue of Williams Carter Wickham Richmond Virginia – June 6 Toppled by protesters Pulled from its base and tumbled to the ground [122]


Jefferson Davis Memorial Jefferson Davis Memorial Richmond Virginia June 3 June 10 Statue of Davis toppled by protesters; the rest of the memorial was not touched. Planned removal of the four Confederate monuments on city land. Protesters toppled the statue from its plinth on June 10. [117]
[123]


Confederate Monument Portsmouth, Virginia (8596805587).jpg Portsmouth Virginia June 9 June 10 Four statues decapitated and one pulled down by protesters City campaign to remove it already underway. [124]
[125]


Howitzer Monument Howitzer Monument, Caspar Buber, Richmond VA, USA 1892.jpg Richmond Virginia June 16 June 16 Toppled by protesters Pulled off its pedestal by a rope. Was located near Virginia Commonwealth University's Monroe Park campus. [126]


Loudoun County Confederate monument Loudoun County Courthouse in Leesburg,Virginia.jpg Leesburg Virginia June 26 Being removed by its owner, United Daughters of the Confederacy, anticipating a request to remove it [127]


Confederate Soldiers and Sailors statue Confederate Soldiers and Sailors Monument Richmond VA 2006.JPG Richmond Virginia July 1 July 8 Removed by City The sixth city-owned Confederate monument ordered removed by Richmond Mayor Levar Stoney on July 1. [128]
Genocide of indigenous peoples

Monuments dedicated to individuals involved in the genocide of indigenous peoples in the Americas have been removed.[129][130]

Juan de Oñate, when governor of Santa Fe de Nuevo México, was responsible for the 1599 Acoma Massacre, in which 800 were killed and all men over 25 had their right foot cut off (although this has been disputed). Junípero Serra, a Franciscan friar, who is accused by some of enslaving Chumash people in the 18th century for the building and supplying of the Spanish missions in California.[131][132][133] Diego de Vargas, also governor of Nuevo México, led the bloody "reconquest" of the territory in 1692, after the Pueblo Revolt of 1680.

A handful of towns in Spain have offered to receive statues of Spaniards unwanted in the U.S.[134]
Monument/memorial City State Removal announced Removed Means of removal Description Ref
Equestrian statue of Juan de Oñate Equestrian statue of Juan de Oñate Alcalde New Mexico June 15 June 15 Removed temporarily by Río Arriba County authorities The right foot of the statue was cut off and stolen in 1997, in reference to Oñate's Acoma Massacre, in which the right foot of every male over 25 was cut off. [135]
[136]


Statue of Juan de Oñate 2013, Cuarto Centenario - "La Jornada" - Renaldo 'Sonny' Rivera, Betty Sabo, 2005 - panoramio (7).jpg Albuquerque New Mexico – June 16 Removed by city pending a decision on next steps Statue in front of the Albuquerque Museum removed after armed militia member shot a protester. [137]
[138]


Statue of John Mason 250 th Monument 08.png Windsor Connecticut July 6 City must get approval from state, which owns the statue, in order to move it to the Windsor Historical Society. Mason is remembered for his role in the Pequot Massacre.
[139]


Kit Carson obelisk Santa Fe Federal Courthouse, with the Kit Carson obelisk to the left Santa Fe New Mexico June 18 Ordered removed by mayor In front of federal courthouse [140]


Statue of Junípero Serra Father Junípero Serra Statue.jpg Ventura California June 18 Agreed to by the Mayor and representatives of the Barbareño/Ventureño Band of Mission Indians and Mission San Buenaventura Will be "moved to a more appropriate non-public location" in response to planned protest [141]
[142]


Statue of Junípero Serra Statue of Junípero Serra San Francisco California June 19 June 19 Toppled by protesters Was installed in Golden Gate Park [143]


Statue of Junípero Serra Father Junipero Serra (cropped).jpg Los Angeles California June 20 June 20 Toppled by protesters Was displayed on Olvera Street downtown [144]


Statue of Junípero Serra Carmel California June 23 Removed by city to safeguard it. There are several statues of Serra in Carmel. This is the one by Jo Mora, at intersection of Serra Avenue with Camino Del Monte. [145]


Statue of Junípero Serra Mission San Luis Obispo de Tolosa, CA USA - panoramio (3).jpg San Luis Obispo California June 22 June 22 Removed by Catholic Church Was displayed on grounds of the San Luis Obispo Mission [146][147]


Statue of Diego de Vargas Statue of Diego de Vargas Santa Fe New Mexico June 17 June 18 Ordered by the Mayor. Vargas is remembered for suppressing the Pueblo Revolt. The statue was removed from Cathedral Park under the direction of Mayor Alan Webber. [148]


Statue of Kit Carson on the Pioneer Fountain Pioneer Monument by Frederick William MacMonnies - DSC01379.JPG Denver Colorado June 26 June 26 Removed by city The Carson statue was the third statue removed in Denver within two days; it was removed to prevent it from being toppled by protesters. [149]


Statue of Junípero Serra Statue of Junípero Serra Sacramento California July 4 Toppled by protesters [150]
Christopher Columbus
See also: List of monuments and memorials to Christopher Columbus

Several statues of Christopher Columbus, the initiator of the European colonization of the Americas, have been removed because of his enslavement of and systemic violence against the indigenous peoples of the Caribbean, including the genocide of the Taíno people.
Monument/memorial City State Removal announced Removed Means of removal Description Ref
Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus statue Richmond Virginia June 9 June 9 Toppled by protesters The statue was toppled, lit on fire, and dumped in a nearby lake by protesters who stated they were acting in solidarity with Native Americans. [151]
[152]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus statue Saint Paul Minnesota June 10 June 10 Toppled by protesters The statue, located next to the Minnesota Capitol Building, was toppled by members of the American Indian Movement. [153]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Statue of Christopher Columbus Boston Massachusetts – June 11 Decapitated by protesters, removed by city The statue was removed following vandalism and a review [154]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Camden New Jersey June 11 June 11 Removed by city Removal ordered by mayor Frank Moran after many years of vandalism. [155]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Houston Texas June 11 June 19 Removed by city The statue was removed from Bell Park a week after being vandalized with red paint and having a hand cut off. [156]


Statue of Christopher Columbus New London Connecticut June 11 – Mayor ordered removal The statue will be removed pending a review [157]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Wilmington Delaware June 12 June 12 Removed by city Removal ordered by mayor Mike Purzycki to be stored while the display of the statue is discussed. [158]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Columbia South Carolina June 12 June 12 Removed by city Removal and storage ordered by mayor Steve Benjamin and City Council. [159]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Chula Vista California – June 12 City put statue in storage ahead of a protest Fate of statue will be decided by public forum [160]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Middletown Connecticut – June 13 City of Middletown removed statue Statue was already slated to be stored due to maintenance work at the park [161]


Christopher Columbus Monument West Orange New Jersey June 13 – Removal ordered by West Orange Mayor Robert Parisi The monument was installed in 1992. Removal ordered by West Orange Mayor Robert Parisi. No final removal date has been announced yet. [162]


Bust of Christopher Columbus Detroit Michigan June 15 June 15 Removed by city Removal and storage ordered by mayor Mike Duggan. [163]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Hartford Connecticut June 15 June 29 Mayor Luke Bronin announced that the statue near the state Capitol would be removed. [164]
[165]


Statue of Christopher Columbus New Haven Connecticut June 15 June 24 Removed by city [164]
[166]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Columbus State statue 02.jpg Columbus Ohio June 16 June 19 Removal ordered by college Removal announced by Columbus State Community College's president of the board of trustees, to be stored while the future of the statue is discussed. [167]
[168]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus Statue in St. Louis St. Louis Missouri June 16 June 16 Removed by city Removal ordered by St Louis Park Board [169]


Columbus' Last Appeal to Queen Isabella Columbus' Last Appeal to Queen Isabella (cropped).jpg Sacramento California June 16 July 7[170] Removal ordered by California State Legislature The statue, placed in 1883, depicted Columbus persuading Queen Isabella to fund his 1492 voyage. Ordered removal took place on July 7, 2020.[171] [172]
[173]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus by Vittorio Di Colbertaldo - Telegraph Hill, San Francisco, CA - DSC04711.jpg San Francisco California June 18 June 18 Removed by the San Francisco Arts Commission The statue, located next to Coit Tower, was removed by the City ahead of a planned Juneteenth protest to throw it into the San Francisco Bay. [174]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus statue, Ohio 01.jpg Columbus Ohio June 18 July 1 Removal ordered by city Removal announced by the City of Columbus [175]
[176]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Columbus Broad St Philly art.JPG Philadelphia Pennsylvania June 24 Removal announced by Philadelphia Mayor Jim Kenney. Shrouded. Needs approval of Philadelphia Art Commission, meeting July 22. [177]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Norwalk Connecticut June 25 June 25 Removed by city [178]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus Statue.jpg Providence Rhode Island June 25 To be moved to storage area by city. [179]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Statue of Christopher Columbus Newark New Jersey June 25 June 25 Removed by city The statue was removed from Washington Park due to the risk of people injuring themselves trying to topple it. The statue will be kept in storage until a final determination is reached regarding the statue's fate. [180]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Memorial to Christopher Columbus Denver Colorado June 26 June 26 Removed by protesters The statue was originally placed in front of the Denver Civic Center in the 1970s. [181]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Atlantic City New Jersey June 28 Being removed "to avert potential vandalism" [182]


Statue of Christopher Columbus San Antonio Texas June 30 July 1 Removed by city [183]
[184]


Statue of Christopher Columbus WaterburyCT.jpg Waterbury Connecticut July 4 (reported) Decapitated Located outside Waterbury City Hall [185]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Christopher Columbus Monument Baltimore 27.jpg Baltimore Maryland July 4 Toppled by protesters After toppling the monument from its base, it was dumped into Baltimore's Inner Harbor. [186]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Statue of Christopher Columbus Bridgeport Connecticut Not announced July 6 Removed by city Placed in storage following removal.[187] [188]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Columbus Wisconsin July 6 City Council voted to put it in storage until another home is found. [189]


Statue of Christopher Columbus Trenton New Jersey July 7 July 8 Removed by city [190]
Others
Monument/memorial City State Removal announced Removed Means of removal Description Ref
Statue of Edward W. Carmack Edward Carmack statue Nashville Tennessee – May 30 Toppled by protesters Carmack was an opponent of Ida B. Wells and encouraged retaliation for her support of the civil rights movement. [191]


Statue of Frank Rizzo Statue of Frank Rizzo Philadelphia Pennsylvania June 3 Removed by city At about 2 am, the statue of Philadelphia police chief and mayor Frank Rizzo was removed. [192]
[193]
[194]


One Riot, One Ranger One Riot, One Ranger Dallas Texas June 4 June 4 Removed by city Statue model helped prevent black students from enrolling in public schools. [195]
[196]
[197]


Statue of Orville L. Hubbard Statue of Orville Hubbard Dearborn Michigan – June 5 Hubbard, the mayor of Dearborn for 35 years, was an outspoken segregationist. [198]


Statue of Jerry Richardson Charlotte North Carolina June 10 June 10 Removed by Carolina Panthers Richardson was alleged to be racist and sexist. The statue was removed from the Bank of America Stadium for fear it would be destroyed by protesters. [199]


Bust of Avery Brundage San Francisco California Removed by museum Brundage was a founding patron of the Asian Art Museum, Alleged white supremacist and anti-semite as well as 5th IOC president who expelled Tommie Smith and John Carlos from the 1968 Summer Olympics for raising black-gloved fists while on the podium. Bust moved from prominent position in foyer of museum to storage. [200]
[201]
[202]


Richmond Police Memorial Richmond Virginia June 11 June 11 Removed by city after being vandalized by protesters Dedicated to Richmond police officers who lost their lives in the line of duty. Removed from Byrd Park after repeated vandalization. The mayor's office stated the statue would be restored and reinstalled. [203]


Statue of Philip Schuyler Statue of Philip Schuyler Albany New York June 11 – Plans for removal by city Removal ordered by mayor Kathy Sheehan due to the fact that Schuyler owned slaves. [204]


Delaware Law Enforcement Memorial Dover Delaware – June 12 Vandalized by protesters, removed by city for restoration Statue partially decapitated. The adjacent memorial wall was unaffected. [205]


Equestrian statue of Caesar Rodney Caesar Rodney Statue.jpg Wilmington Delaware June 12 June 12 Removed by city Rodney was a slave owner. Removal ordered by mayor Mike Purzycki to be stored while the display of the statue is discussed. [158]


Bust of John McDonogh Bust of John McDonogh in June 2017 New Orleans Louisiana – June 13 Removed by protesters Protesters removed the bust from Duncan Plaza and rolled it into the Mississippi River. [206]


The Pioneer The Pioneer at its installation in 1919 Eugene Oregon – June 13 Toppled and dragged by protesters The University of Oregon placed its two Pioneer statues in storage on June 14[207] [208]


The Pioneer Mother The Pioneer Mother by Alexander Phimister Proctor - Eugene, Oregon - DSC09228.jpg Eugene Oregon – June 13 Toppled by protesters The University of Oregon placed its two Pioneer statues in storage on June 14[207] [208]


Statue of Thomas Jefferson at Jefferson High School Thomas Jefferson statue at Jefferson High School Portland Oregon – June 14 Toppled after Black Lives Matter protest, allegedly by people unassociated with protest 1916 bronze replica of 1911 statue by Karl Bitter [209]


Statue of Josephus Daniels Raleigh North Carolina June 16 June 16 Removed by Daniels's descendants The statue was located near The News & Observer building, which is scheduled to be demolished. Daniels' family claims to have acted on their own accord rather than on pressure from activists, and will keep the statue in storage until a decision is made on its ultimate fate. [210]


Statue of John Sutter Sacramento California June 16 June 16 Removed by Sutter Health The statue was located in front of Sutter General Hospital. Sutter was a California Gold Rush pioneer who enslaved Native Americans. [211]


Captain William Clark Monument Link to image Portland Oregon June 17 & 18 Removed by the University of Portland The university removed the monument "as a precaution". [212]


Statue of George Washington Statue of George Washington Portland Oregon – June 18 Toppled by protesters [213]


Statue of Francis Scott Key Statue of Francis Scott Key San Francisco California – June 18 Toppled by protesters Part of a group of statues toppled in Golden Gate Park. [143]


Bust of Ulysses S. Grant Bust of Ulysses S. Grant San Francisco California – June 18 Toppled by protesters Part of a group of statues toppled in Golden Gate Park. [143]


Statue of Calvin Griffith GriffithCal.jpg Minneapolis Minnesota – Removed by Minnesota Twins Griffith was the former owner of the Minnesota Twins; the statue was removed due to racist statements made by Griffith in 1978 suggesting he moved the team to Minnesota due to the low number of African-American residents. [214]


Monument to George Preston Marshall Washington District of Columbia – June 19 Removed by Events DC Removed from Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium. Washington Redskins' front office was not consulted. [215]
[216]
[217]
[218]


Equestrian Statue of Theodore Roosevelt Theodore Roosevelt on horseback accompanied by two men on foot New York City New York June 20 Theodore Roosevelt on horseback accompanied by walking figures of two men, one a Native American and one African; in front of the American Museum of Natural History [219]
[220]


Forward Forward sculpture Madison Wisconsin – June 23 Removed by protesters "Forward" is the motto of the state of Wisconsin. A 1998 bronze replica of a commissioned 1893 work of the Wisconsin female artist Jean Pond Miner. [221]


John C. Calhoun Monument Charleston marion square3.jpg Charleston South Carolina June 22 June 23 Removed by city Calhoun was a leading advocate of slavery. The statue may be placed back on display at "an appropriate site" such as a museum. [222]


Statue of Thomas Jefferson Hofstra University, Jefferson statue (cropped).jpg Hempstead New York June 23 Moved by university Statue at Hofstra University moved from student center main entrance to university museum. [223]


Statue of Hans Christian Heg Statue of Hans Christian Heg Madison Wisconsin – June 23 Removed by protesters Heg was a Union Army colonel in the Civil War, and an abolitionist. His statue was decapitated and thrown into a lake by protesters. Two protesters interviewed by the media alleged that toppling the statue was to draw attention to their view of Wisconsin as being racially unjust. [224]
[7]
[225]


Civil War Monument Statuecoloradostatecapitol.JPG Denver Colorado June 25 June 25 Toppled by protesters The monument honors Colorado citizens who served in the Union Army. It listed battles against Native Americans in addition to battles against the Confederacy. Most controversially, it listed the Sand Creek massacre (a mass killing of Cheyenne and Arapaho Native Americans) as a battle. [226]


Obelisk in Santa Fe Plaza, commemorating Union soldiers Santa Fe Plaza.jpg Santa Fe New Mexico June 25 Ordered removed by mayor Note word "savages" effaced from inscription [140]


Emancipation Memorial (replica) Emancipation Memorial (Boston) by Thomas Ball - IMG 8949-1.JPG Boston Massachusetts June 30 Boston Art Commission, with "full support" of mayor, voted for removal. [227]


Elk PortlandElkStatue.jpg Portland Oregon July 1 Damaged by protesters Base damaged by protester fire and could not safely support statue [228]
[229]


Statue of George Whitefield U Penn Statue.jpg Philadelphia Pennsylvania July 2 Whitefield was a supporter of slavery. [230]


Statue of Frederick Douglass Rochester New York – July 5 Removed by unknown perpetrators Maplewood Park is a site along the Underground Railroad where Douglas and Harriet Tubman helped shuttle slaves to freedom. Removal occurred on the anniversary of Douglas' famous 1852 "What to the Slave Is the Fourth of July?" speech in Rochester. [231]
[232]
[233]


Statue of Andrew Jackson City hall in Jackson, Mississippi.jpg Jackson Mississippi July 7 City Council voted to remove statue in front of City Hall. [234]

--

you didn't put in the political affiliation of any of the voting blocks where the statues were removed from.

it isn't that they are offended it's that they are ''outraged and re-writing history''

if your interested in more information on how this works, there is a book called 1984,,,, it lays down the script.

Ive withdrawn this thread, Bakes can delete if he wants. Thought it would be worth a debate but I sickened myself a bit with that list. Bloody hell, its no good what is happening with that sort of thing. Look after yourselves over there guys, whether its peaceful where you are or otherwise.

Still have all my guns! Still hunting here in MT. How's it going in NZ? Are you missing my American dollars? Are you missing your days at the range with rifles and pistols?

I could care less about the looting or statues coming down.

Not posting here because I'm not hunting there. My trip was cancelled.

Ski+3
Whitefish, MT

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
Still have all my guns! Still hunting here in MT. How's it going in NZ? Are you missing my American dollars? Are you missing your days at the range with rifles and pistols?

I think both NZ and Aus were missing them for a while but went out of lockdown several weeks ago. Range shoots continue with both firearms types again s far as I am aware, ad does hunting. How about in Montana?

quote:

I could care less about the looting or statues coming down.

All I can looking at that list is some Americans in power feel the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by SkiBumplus3:
Still have all my guns! Still hunting here in MT. How's it going in NZ? Are you missing my American dollars? Are you missing your days at the range with rifles and pistols?

I could care less about the looting or statues coming down.

Not posting here because I'm not hunting there. My trip was cancelled.

Ski+3
Whitefish, MT

Pistols and rifles havnt been affected in all this, can use them same as before the new regs.
Some small wins since then. Farmers can now apply to own a high capacity semi such as an AR for pest control. It leaves the door open for easing of rules in the future for sporting purpose too.
The biggest part of our economy is agriculture and its experiencing a boom right now due to covid, but we will miss tourism over the next summer for sure. Though to be honest American tourists make up a relatively small percentage of tourists with much more coming out of europe and asia.
In the end though, I dont like this thread, because its plainly obvious to see that worldwide our culture is at threat, no matter what country you are in, we are all in the same boat. And its because of ignorance and bias and a belief that everyone must conform to the lefts social policy. Some real dick heads on the left and right, but the guys in the centre who just want to live their lives and do their thing are the ones who are suffering.

Karl, truly all is well here in NW Montana with a few coved cases as expected from tourist. Yes we continue to enjoy freedom to own and utilize firearms due to our 2nd amendment.
My trip to NZ is on hold with some hope all will change for 2021. Our country is going through some difficult times due to political and racial animosity. But, we will endure and with hope work out our differences civilly. Our society is experiencing misinformed idealism that has caused many to resort to violence. Although, not here in NW Montana and northern Idaho.
Have been reading about your Tahr battles that kiwis seem to be at odds concerning such. I took a very nice tahr in 2016 and if our trip does come to fruition hoping my grandson can take one along with other animals.
So, our silence should not be construed as not paying attention but rather merely monitoring what is happening worldwide.
Hope you all are safe and healthy. MTG

Karl,

I haven't been posting lately because of the cancellation of all travel into NZ. Usually I visit 4-5 times a year so a lot of my posts concern meeting up with friends, delivering packages, going hunting with mates, etc.

Since June 1st, I no longer work for Air New Zealand but I still expect to visit NZ occasionally on business once the country opens back up.

quote:

In the end though, I dont like this thread, because its plainly obvious to see that worldwide our culture is at threat, no matter what country you are in, we are all in the same boat.

We are all in the same boat when gun laws come in to Australia and NZ as well, which doesnt stop people logging in to tell us we are doing it wrong.

Which was the point of the post. However I withdrew it as I dont really have the stomach for saying nyah nyah to others anyway.

However, if you really dont like the thread, stop posting more words on it then anyone else

Sadly, Americans are dying needlessly, just because of some totally irresponsible idiots.

It is is the ME ME ME ME geration.

There is a massive silent majority in this country who go to work, take care of their families, pay taxes, obey the laws, etc. Push that silent majority too far and keep calling us racist (the vast majority of us aren't racist) and there's gonna be an ugly awakening. They want to be woke? They're gonna get "woked" something fierce if they keep this up.

Most of us have only so much tolerance for a bunch of angry white 20 year olds screaming these are the worst of times into their $1000 iPhones.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:

quote:

In the end though, I dont like this thread, because its plainly obvious to see that worldwide our culture is at threat, no matter what country you are in, we are all in the same boat.

We are all in the same boat when gun laws come in to Australia and NZ as well, which doesnt stop people logging in to tell us we are doing it wrong.

Which was the point of the post. However I withdrew it as I dont really have the stomach for saying nyah nyah to others anyway.

However, if you really dont like the thread, stop posting more words on it then anyone else

Thats very defensive of you karl.

And very socialist- as in dont agree then shut up.
I have a different opinion and am happy to share it as part of the discussion, But dont get pissed at me because I disagree with your's.

Bull Sprig, the silent majority is awake. They just do not telegraph their punches. BLM/Antifa et al should fear the silent, well armed, informed bunch of us.
“A pale horse appeared and upon him sat death”.
There are many of us “silent majority” that will NOT put up with BS if pressed into service. MTG

quote:

Originally posted by Bull Sprig:
There is a massive silent majority in this country who go to work, take care of their families, pay taxes, obey the laws, etc. Push that silent majority too far and keep calling us racist (the vast majority of us aren't racist) and there's gonna be an ugly awakening. They want to be woke? They're gonna get "woked" something fierce if they keep this up.

Most of us have only so much tolerance for a bunch of angry white 20 year olds screaming these are the worst of times into their $1000 iPhones.

Nailed it!

quote:

Originally posted by MTGunner:
Bull Sprig, the silent majority is awake. They just do not telegraph their punches. BLM/Antifa et al should fear the silent, well armed, informed bunch of us.
“A pale horse appeared and upon him sat death”.
There are many of us “silent majority” that will NOT put up with BS if pressed into service. MTG

That's all well and good to say but until you stand up and be vocal in public in your support it's meaningless. God forbid a person say something like "I support Americans of all colors" and the shitheads on social media become the judge, jury and executioner to destroy that person and/or their business......WE ALL NEED TO STAND UP AND SUPPORT THOSE WILLING TO STAND UP FOR WHAT"S RIGHT.

Being silent should come to an end soon. There's way more of us than them....don't forget that. These weakling anarchists would be overrun in a single day by good Americans.

Am i in the right forum?

Australian and New Zealand Hunting

quote:

Thats very defensive of you karl.

Its a forum, we put foward opinions and suggestions and then defend them.

quote:

And very socialist- as in dont agree then shut up.

No, my suggestion was you should shut up if you are on threads you dont like. I didnt say you had to go, nor can I ban you anyway.

quote:

I have a different opinion and am happy to share it as part of the discussion, But dont get pissed at me because I disagree with your's.

Share whatever you want, just dont whine or pull out the socialiat stick when it comes back your way mate.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
Am i in the right forum?

Australian and New Zealand Hunting

Little traffic, few hunting posts, people more interested in talking politics. Its definietly the Australian and New Zealand hunting forum

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:

quote:

Thats very defensive of you karl.

Its a forum, we put foward opinions and suggestions and then defend them.

quote:

And very socialist- as in dont agree then shut up.

No, my suggestion was you should shut up if you are on threads you dont like. I didnt say you had to go, nor can I ban you anyway.

quote:

I have a different opinion and am happy to share it as part of the discussion, But dont get pissed at me because I disagree with your's.

Share whatever you want, just dont whine or pull out the socialiat stick when it comes back your way mate.

I dont think telling someone not to post is a particularly strong defence.
And im kind of bemused that you took acceptation to me not liking your threads opening position When you have indicated you have second thoughts yourself.
This is not personnel Karl, and I dont want to make it such as mostly I enjoy your input. I just feel that this is a case of wrong time and like Gryph mentions, wrong place.

Karl - Democracy can get pretty messy at times. We hope that over the long run it will be self-correcting. We'll see.

quote:

I dont think telling someone not to post is a particularly strong defence.

Well your comments werent particulary strong in the first place Shanks. so its a case of appropriate use of force

quote:

And im kind of bemused that you took acceptation to me not liking your threads opening position When you have indicated you have second thoughts yourself.

I'm kind of bemused someone pulls out the socialist hammer in response to a rolleyes emoji

quote:

This is not personnel Karl, and I dont want to make it such as mostly I enjoy your input. I just feel that this is a case of wrong time and like Gryph mentions, wrong place.

So you slide two more shots and then want to kiss and make up in the last paragraph? Jeepers straight out of the "Internet argument handbook, page 1

As to time and place, politics gets plenty of airplay here, because there are plenty of people like you and me who want to talk about stuff not related to hunting.

Ok Karl, You are being a dick. Full stop.

I will spell it out for you.

At times we have issues in NZ or Australia that effect our activities that are relevant to our particular sports and this forum.
These things then get discussed here, and yes occasionally there are some replies from a few American members that can be terribly irritating and Naive.
In such a case id probably agree with some of your later post as a response. But not the opening one.
In this particular case you came here with an in your face and smartarse post that has nothing to do with NZ or Australia and if relevant anywhere, perhaps in the politics section or the American section as that was where it was aimed.
Then in response too a single sentence i wrote in reply to someone else, You act all pissy with what is perhaps the second most useless reply anyone can bring to an internet debate.
I dont care that you are upset about my description of your actions in that regard, as socialist. You deserved it and continue too.

Right so to reply to your points of your last post.
My comment was never meant to be strong or a shot at you. I simple said I didnt like/agree with the post. The fact you could not accept that and continue to bring it up is weird.

My reply was not in response to an emoji- thats just pointless misrepresentation in an attempt to minimise. It was in response to your comment. The emoji just signifies your childishness in this particular case.

There was one shot in there, not two. I am genuinely bemused that this has all flared up when it started from a very benign comment on my behalf, and because you seemed to indicate you regretted the post yourself.
Reminds me of a comment from a russian girl I knew ( Sorry to bring up the socialist aspect again.) who once told me that she could disagree with herself, but I was not allowed to disagree with her.
I will contend that you deserved the shot I did fire, for reasons listed above.
As for the not personnel stuff- well we can forget that now, that went out the window.
Thats me done. Pointless thread, pointless argument.

quote:

Originally posted by shankspony:
Ok Karl, You are being a dick. Full stop.

If you werent being a dick yourself you would have seen the levity in my last post.

For a guy who talks a lot about appropriate reactions it doesnt take make to tip you over does it?

quote:

I will spell it out for you.
At times we have issues in NZ or Australia that effect our activities that are relevant to our particular sports and this forum.
These things then get discussed here, and yes occasionally there are some replies from a few American members that can be terribly irritating and Naive.
In such a case id probably agree with some of your later post as a response. But not the opening one.
In this particular case you came here with an in your face and smartarse post that has nothing to do with NZ or Australia and if relevant anywhere, perhaps in the politics section or the American section as that was where it was aimed.Then in response too a single sentence i wrote in reply to someone else, You act all pissy with what is perhaps the second most useless reply anyone can bring to an internet debate.I dont care that you are upset about my description of your actions in that regard, as socialist. You deserved it and continue too.
Right so to reply to your points of your last post.
My comment was never meant to be strong or a shot at you. I simple said I didnt like/agree with the post. The fact you could not accept that and continue to bring it up is weird.
My reply was not in response to an emoji- thats just pointless misrepresentation in an attempt to minimise. It was in response to your comment. The emoji just signifies your childishness in this particular case.

There was one shot in there, not two. I am genuinely bemused that this has all flared up when it started from a very benign comment on my behalf, and because you seemed to indicate you regretted the post yourself. Reminds me of a comment from a russian girl I knew ( Sorry to bring up the socialist aspect again.) who once told me that she could disagree with herself, but I was not allowed to disagree with her.

I will contend that you deserved the shot I did fire, for reasons listed above.
As for the not personnel stuff- well we can forget that now, that went out the window.

Thats a hell of a meltdown mate. Ex russian girlfriends, unrestricted use of adjectives, self reflection, a doozy shanks

I am glad you are only 'genuinely bemused' too , I think if you were 'rantingly upset' you would collapse Saeeds bandwidth here

But breaking this down

1.Personal( not personnel) attacks and over reactions, are okay if you do them or feel at some point they are at the right point to use them?

2.Using a hunting forum for diatribes on non related matter is the wrong time and the wrong place for everyone else: but okay for you to do it with the longest diatribes of anyone?

You obviously went to the ANTIFA school of fair play.

quote:

Thats me done.

I doubt it, the "internet rulebook for debating" clearly states when someone says that it is almost never true. Those drawn to threads they feel should not be on forums, are the ones most drawn to ensuring they keep that thread going.

It comes down to common sense and self control

I can smell shit.

Lads - behave .

What a bunch of crap..Its not America, NZ, Aussieland, its the whole damn world..Me personally, I'll take Idaho or texas, they don't know whats going on and don't give a shit.....

images wont work..drat

Not only have i not been posting i havent even visited much.
I guess im depressed.

I should be basking in the after glow of my vacation down under. I should be telling storys of the GBR, Giant GTs, barramundi, and axis deer. Instead im humping up a mountain every other day in preparation for elk hunting in september.

On a positive note i did get my passport in the mail last week. Only took 4 months. At this point im just glad to get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
What a bunch of crap..Its not America, NZ, Aussieland, its the whole damn world..Me personally, I'll take Idaho or texas, they don't know whats going on and don't give a shit.....

Same could be said about gunlaws. The position of US posters on this forum, any time we have law changes is its just a localised issue. That was the point of the thread, which for the record, I said could happlily be deleted or locked.

quote:

Originally posted by gryphon1:
images wont work..drat

Mate thats three posts on a thread you feel is on the wroing forum. maybe get a moderator to help you post some more on it to keep it going.