Praying for a good outcome. Damn these scum.

http://www.reuters.com/article...dUSKBN0JS0WX20141214

Yes, definitely praying for a good outcome.

SASR will solve the problem

I am fearful this will not end well but am sorry to remember that it is an ill wind that blows no one some good.

Joe Hockey had to present his humiliating mid-year economic statement today - and no one was listening.

Well, BBC says this morning he is an Iranian cleric with a violent criminal record, and he is apparently alone.

The SASR just rushed the building. A lot flashbang grenades went off and a number of hostages came running out the front door.

No sign of the terrorist, yet.

Two dead, one of which may be our evil-doer.

After reading the curriculum vitae of the late terrorist Man Monis, one has to wonder A)Why was he out on bail? and B)What on earth led Australia to let this guy in in the first place? I think most Yanks like myself are under the impression that Oz is pretty picky about who gets to live there.

Two hostages dead and the scum bag has been killed. Didn't end well. My thoughts go to the family's of those poor hostages killed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:

After reading the curriculum vitae of the late terrorist Man Monis, one has to wonder A)Why was he out on bail? and B)What on earth led Australia to let this guy in in the first place? I think most Yanks like myself are under the impression that Oz is pretty picky about who gets to live there.

Both excellent questions that we be asked a few million times over the coming days. Murder of his ex-wife and more than 40 sexual offences. What does it take to become incarcerated in OZ?

Condolences to those families impacted by this.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
After reading the curriculum vitae of the late terrorist Man Monis, one has to wonder A)Why was he out on bail? and B)What on earth led Australia to let this guy in in the first place? I think most Yanks like myself are under the impression that Oz is pretty picky about who gets to live there.

Not as picky as we should be Bill.

A very sad result, but as a previous poster said, I never believed it was going to end well.

why do we insist on trying for a peacful resolution, should have been taken out with a single shot when the chance came, he signed his death warrent the moment he took hostages with a gun, two inocent people might still be alive

Are the authorities just plain ignorant? Not referring to only the Aussies but the whole world! When one of these Muslim crazies takes hostages we know someone is going to die, usually along with the crazy. So why wait 16 hours to end the ordeal? Go in quickly and kill the bastard. The results have got to be better than waiting for him to kill some or all his hostages.

Australia has a number of these nutters.

A lot of them have been kicked out of other countries.

Notice also that he is a self proclaimed "sheikh".

Which is exactly like every single one of those criminals.

I sometimes wonder what is other countries really be thinking when they harbour these vermin!

The anti Islamic nuts are already howling up a storm on some forums I can see another Cronulla riot coming on.

G'Day Fella's,

A7drvr, from what I understand, they were concerned that the FRUIT CAKE may have been armed with a explosive device in his back pack (it wouldn't have had a packed lunch in there)! So if he had a bomb and a momentary switch, even with a head shot, it may have set off "the bomb" and killed a heap of innocents!
So given this, they had to wait for this FRUIT CAKE to make the first serious move, then react when they had no choice, which they did! Well done to them all, they did a great job!!!
Well that is, apart from the "Dick Head" at the rear or left of the Police Entry Team! He spent 10+ seconds, trying to unhook and then deploy his Flash-Bang! Oh how embarrassment!!!

Sorry about that, I can't help but notice these things.

The two questions I would really like political answers to are;
1) How did this violent, criminal with a lot of extremist history, get out on bail and be allowed to walk around the streets of Sydney?
2) Who was it in the NSW Firearms Registry, that issued him with a Permit To Acquire (PTA), a Pump Action (a Prohibited Weapon) Shotgun?

Double Doh!!
Homer

This may be a possible reason this company was targeted

https://www.facebook.com/AusTe...053302929895/?type=1

The Australian Tea Party

Support Lindt, - this is a picture we put up over a month ago. Many people are not aware that the Lindt Chocolate co have been targeted by groups demanding that they Halal Certify their product range. - I do not believe it is any coincidence that it is the Lindt Cafe that is being targeted today.

Can I ask all of our members to consider throwing in a bar of their chocolate into your trolley this week? This company will no doubt be facing a number of challenges this week after being directly targeted by a terrorist attack by someone claiming to be linked to an islamic terrorist group. Lets stand behind Lindt and let them know that we have their backs also. — with Glenn Alderson.


December 14

HomerOz; 1)the bomb concern just doesn't hold a lot of water considering past events like this. If a terrorist is going to use a bomb they usually walk into a crowded place and detonate the bomb immediately. The last thing they want is to be taken out by law enforcement before they complete their mission. I can't recall any event where the terrorist with a bomb took hostages and waited around for 16 hours before doing the dirty deed. And if he did have a bomb what makes anyone think there would be fewer casualties by waiting the 16 hours before the idiot blew it? 2) Do you know that he actually had a PTA for the shotgun? Here in the U.S. our loving criminals usually use a stolen weapon, perhaps as much as 99% of the time. With our Instant Check system for gun purchases it's highly unlikely that a criminal can go to a gunshop and buy a legal weapon, although he may be able to buy from a private seller. 3) At any rate the governments of this world need to stop tolerating these maniacs and stop letting them out of jail once you've managed to lock them up. They're like sex offenders, they can't be cured or rehabilitated so just plan on providing room and board for them for life, unless we can hasten up the end game.

BTW, Saeeds last line in his post above says it all. If a government is going to harbor these vermin then they deserve the end results!

quote:

Originally posted by HomerOz:
The two questions I would really like political answers to are;
1) How did this violent, criminal with a lot of extremist history, get out on bail and be allowed to walk around the streets of Sydney?
2) Who was it in the NSW Firearms Registry, that issued him with a Permit To Acquire (PTA), a Pump Action (a Prohibited Weapon) Shotgun?
Double Doh!!
Homer

How do you know the firearm was legal?

Von Gruff, that Lindt chocolate halal connection is incredible. Do you think that is the reason our Iranian nut job chose his target?
You bet I'll "toss some Lindt in my trolley" if I can find some.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Von Gruff, that Lindt chocolate halal connection is incredible. Do you think that is the reason our Iranian nut job chose his target?
You bet I'll "toss some Lindt in my trolley" if I can find some.

I'm not sure we'll ever know the answer to that Bill, but it was interesting to hear the major spokesman for the Muslim community say that the poi was an outcast, he had been rejected by the Sunni and Shia communities because of his radicalism.
One question that will be answered is why this person wasn't on a watch list in view of the fact that he was well known to NSW police, Federal police and at least one security agency.
I would say there will be some people with their arses in a sling as a result of this question.

This idiot was let into the country by the same conservative government that legislated for the buy back of semi-auto longarms in Australia. I'd like to know who signed off on this joker as he had a criminal history in Iran and they wanted to extradite him. If some of these public servants and politicians were made accountable for their mistakes it may reduce the incidents of this happening.

He had just had an appeal dismissed in our High court which was just up the road from the Lindt shop. My guess is he was heading up there and got spooked early. We will never know now.

Edit: I believe he did not have a firearms license. Where did you get your information from Homer or are you just trolling the forum with crap like our local media did on the day ?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I sometimes wonder what is other countries really be thinking when they harbour these vermin!

This guy was a little unusual in that most asylum seekers are grateful to the country that lets them settle. The trouble more often comes from disenchanted children of those people.

So, did he in fact have a pump-action shotgun? If so, I would be very surprised if he got (or kept) it legally. The worst outcome for the hunting community would be if it turned out not to be a shotgun ...

G'Day Fella's,

The Permit To Acquire question, was a bit of a Tongue in Cheek question. But this was posted, prior to knowing what I wrote below!

Apparently, this Fruit Cake may have still had a valid NSW Firearms License?
Apparently our Prime Minister, is now asking about looking into firearms laws in this country! So he bloody well should too! And if this Fruit Cake still had a valid F/Arms License, the NSW Police and or Public Servants responsible for this, should be hung out to dry!

Double Doh!!
Homer

A story i got told by a shooting friend of mine who has a Policeman mate who i have met once ,at a local shooting Range were two Muslims firing a sniper rifle [dont no what brand, but believe it could have been a Sako TRG ]one was spotting with spotting scope the other shooting ,they were switching between distances while the spotter ''Called his shots'' like a True sniper team ,wonder waht they were practicing for ? Policeman took their names ,addresses etc

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
After reading the curriculum vitae of the late terrorist Man Monis, one has to wonder A)Why was he out on bail? and B)What on earth led Australia to let this guy in in the first place? I think most Yanks like myself are under the impression that Oz is pretty picky about who gets to live there.

Not as picky as we should be Bill.

A very sad result, but as a previous poster said, I never believed it was going to end well.

Considering the hoops I had to jump through to get here and stay here ..... but, then I didn't just appear as a refugee, I was a family man with children leaving a rapidly deteriorating 3rd world country, so unworthy of special attention.

NSW Police have come out and stated he did not have a licence http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydn...20141217-129bg7.html

So either the "info" Abbott spouted is proof the Crimtrac database is, as long suspected, so full of errors it is totally worthless, or this is just a case of an advisor feeding (made up)information they thought their boss wanted to hear.

So if the firearm was a declared a Cat D under the 96 laws, and from what I can gather this individual only arrived post '96, how did he get it?

Perhaps more scrutiny of the information gathered in the recent senate hearings is needed rather than embarking on another witch hunt!

So when has not having the correct information stopped Abbott spouting off? Remeber the MH370 black boxes?
Wish he would show a little restraint and wait until he has the facts. Makes himself look foolish.

My thoughts for those that were involved and the deceased and condolences to their families.

Chris

G'Day Fella's,

A7drvr sorry, I neglected to thank you for the "No Bomb" explanation above! Makes a lot of sense!

Now that this Fruit Cakes F/arms license situation has been cleared up (apparently he didn't have one), there is quite a bit of comment about the need for more than the inquiry that the politicians have been talking about. Some of the Australian public have been suggesting that a Royal Commission should be convened into this Fruit Cake and his actions both Before the Sydney siege and the days of the Siege itself! More or less, to see how this Fruit Cake "Fell Through The Gaps" of the monitoring system etc etc.
Bloody good idea I say but I bet you it will never happen!

Doh!
Homer

If your government is like ours they'll have 2 years of congressional/parlimentary inquiries at taxpayer expense and nothing will come of it.

What amazes me is the failure of any news media I've heard or seen to say what kind of gun this turkey used.

Though some of you have discovered it was a pump-action shotgun, I suspect the government would rather we did not know that because it questions the effectiveness of the laws proscribing them.

Leyonhjelm's comments are not likely to achieve anything in this country but do, at least, show there is someone likely to stand up to Abbott if he tries to recreate himself in the image of John Howard to get back some voter appeal.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/art...gun-licence-comments

Shooters Party MLC attacks Abbott over siege gun licence comments

Calls to relax gun laws in the wake of the deadly siege in Sydney have been criticised by politicians past and present.
ByStephanie Anderson with AAP

18 Dec 2014 - 3:43 PM UPDATED YESTERDAY 8:34 PM

Senator David Leyonhjelm wants to reopen the debate on self-defence and access to weapons in the wake of the fatal siege, which saw 17 hostages held for 16 hours by gunman Man Haron Monis.

The pro-gun Liberal Democrat said the hostages were left helpless, due to the fact they could not lawfully carry weapons into the Lindt café.

The Shooters and Fishers Party have also distanced themselves from Senator Leyonhjelm’s comments, with one politician saying they conflicted with party policy.

NSW MLC Robert Borsak told SBS that increased access to weapons or the ability to carry a concealed gun would not have saved the victims of the deadly siege.

‘If they had pulled their finger out and got those bail laws operational quickly, this man would have not been on the streets’

“The reality is that this man was a criminal,” he said.

“He should have been in jail on remand... We passed last September a new set of bail laws that toughened up the law in relation to bail.

"If they had pulled their finger out, to be frank, and got those bail laws operational quickly, this man would have not been on the streets.”

But Mr Borsak said the fatal incident was an “opening for a discussion” on the National Firearms Agreement, introduced by John Howard following the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.

Dismissing the 18 per cent decline in murders committed by firearms in the following two decades, Mr Borsak said the agreement was “foisted upon the Australian public”.

He also criticised Prime Minister Tony Abbott over his incorrect comment that Monis had a gun licence, an incorrect statement provided to his office by the Australian Federal Police.

‘In Mr Abbott’s unseemly haste yesterday he was trying to get his Howard moment’

“We did not need to do what was done [following the Port Arthur massacre],” he said.

“Mr Howard at that time took advantage politically of the situation and we believe in Mr Abbott’s unseemly haste yesterday he was trying to get his Howard moment and that moment has blown up in his face.”

Mr Howard stood by the agreement during an interview with the ABC, stating that it was “an exercise in logic to understand that the more guns there are in the community, the greater the likelihood of mass murder”.

He said any attempt to roll back the laws would be resisted.

“I have been convinced for a long time that what my government did way back in 1996 has made Australia a safer country,” he said.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten also dismissed the call to loosen laws regulating guns, stating "I don't see how providing more guns into the population make us safer".

Mr Shorten said that compared with gun deaths in America, Australia had proportionally far fewer fatalities.

The acting Greens leader Adam Bandt has also dismissed the push by Senator Leyonhjelm, posting on Twitter that it was incorrect to link looser gun laws to safety.

“US-style gun laws in Australia means US-style shootings and death rates,” he said.

Howard says changing gun laws a bad idea

The father of Australian gun control says it's simplistic and flawed to believe weaker gun laws could have prevented the Martin Place siege.

But John Howard says he's not looking to get into a debate with the crossbench senator, David Leyonhjelm, who's blamed tight gun controls for creating "a nation of victims".

Former prime minister Howard remains certain the laws he enacted after the Port Arthur massacre had made Australia safer.

"It's just an exercise in logic to understand that the more guns there are in the community, the greater the likelihood of mass murder," he told ABC radio.

Senator Leyonhjelm quit the Liberal Party in disgust at the 1996 laws, and has also been a member of the Shooters Party.

Mr Howard said the Liberal Democrat's stance was "a very simplistic and flawed analysis".

"It's very important in the wake of that terrible event for us to keep calm and understand what the right responses are," he said.

"I don't think a right response is to make guns more freely available in the community."

Gun control expert Philip Alpers, from the University of Sydney, said the US was suffering from an epidemic of gun deaths. By contrast, the rate in Australia had halved since laws were toughened.

Current political leaders have also criticised the senator.

NSW Premier Mike Baird had one word for Senator Leyonhjelm: "Wrong".

"That is outrageous," he said.

"I couldn't think of a (more) inappropriate comment than that."

Both Attorney-General George Brandis and Opposition Leader Bill

Shorten said the question wasn't whether laws were tough enough but if they were being properly enforced.

Senator Brandis said it appeared the type of gun Monis used was banned under the 1996 laws, although he cautioned the need to wait for the full investigation to be sure.

"If the weapon he had indeed was a banned weapon, then there'sonly one way he could have got that weapon and that is illegally," he told ABC radio.

Mr Shorten couldn't see how putting more guns in the community would make Australians safer.

Senator Leyonhjelm has taken to Twitter to defend his comments, calling his critics "hoplophobes" - afraid of guns.

"In which being killed by a lunatic is preferred to having themeans to save your own life," he tweeted

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
What amazes me is the failure of any news media I've heard or seen to say what kind of gun this turkey used.

Though some of you have discovered it was a pump-action shotgun, I suspect the government would rather we did not know that because it questions the effectiveness of the laws proscribing them.

Leyonhjelm's comments are not likely to achieve anything in this country but do, at least, show there is someone likely to stand up to Abbott if he tries to recreate himself in the image of John Howard to get back some voter appeal.

G'Day Fella's,

Unfortunately Sambar Man, that is one of the unsavory ways in which The Media controls information, that the slimy Politicians and Police, don't want to become public knowledge!

70 odd years ago, what is now refer to as "The Media" was refereed to as "The Department of Propergander"! Nothing has changed, its is still just a control of information, to the general public........

Doh!
Homer

quote:

Originally posted by HomerOz:

70 odd years ago, what is now refer to as "The Media" was refereed to as "The Department of Propergander" ! Nothing has changed, its is still just a control of information, to the general public........

Doh!
Homer

Rubbish!

I do not know why we in Aust let known criminals in as refugees and then give them citizenship. He is not the only one. Talk about idiots.

Somebody posted it was the SASR that went in . Sorry no, they would of been somewhat more professional. The NSW Police TRG looked like girlguides on the news. Sorry if I offened some but in honest truth thats what they looked like. Entry was gained minuets after the first shot-WTF-and they appeared to be fumbling and indesisive in their actions at the door. I don't know why but could of been the Police commanders had not given clear go/no go orders or were on the two way giving contridictory orders. Iam just makeing asumptions from what has been said and what I have seen, so the overall value is low.

quote:

Originally posted by Rule 303:
I do not know why we in Aust let known criminals in as refugees and then give them citizenship. He is not the only one. Talk about idiots.

Somebody posted it was the SASR that went in . Sorry no, they would of been somewhat more professional. The NSW Police TRG looked like girlguides on the news. Sorry if I offened some but in honest truth thats what they looked like. Entry was gained minuets after the first shot-WTF-and they appeared to be fumbling and indesisive in their actions at the door. I don't know why but could of been the Police commanders had not given clear go/no go orders or were on the two way giving contridictory orders. Iam just makeing asumptions from what has been said and what I have seen, so the overall value is low.

Agree 100% Rule.

quote:

Originally posted by johnfox:

quote:

Originally posted by HomerOz:

70 odd years ago, what is now refer to as "The Media" was refereed to as "The Department of Propergander" ! Nothing has changed, its is still just a control of information, to the general public........

Doh!
Homer

Rubbish!

You are correct John Fox, my mistake! Hitler referred to it as The Ministry of Propergander!

Doh!
Homer