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$140 million down the drain. Ouch

quote:

A US Air Force F-22 Raptor stealth fighter crashed just outside Eglin Air Force Base in Florida

Ryan Pickrell 3 hours ago

US Department of Defense

An F-22 Raptor crashed just outside of Eglin Air Force Base in Florida on Friday morning, but the pilot was able to eject safely.
The fighter was on a routine training flight at the time of the accident, which is under investigation.
The pilot is in stable condition but is still being evaluated by Eglin's medical personnel.
Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

A US Air Force F-22 Raptor from Eglin Air Force Base in Florida crashed Friday morning, but the pilot was able to eject safely.

The stealth fighter went down at 9:15 a.m. during a routine training flight with the 33rd Fighter Wing about 12 miles northeast of the main base at the test and training range, a Eglin official told Insider.

The fighter pilot involved in the crash was assigned to the 43rd Fighter Squadron, which is part of the 325th Fighter Wing at Eglin. The pilot is stable and is with the 96th medical group at Eglin undergoing further evaluation.

First responders with the 96th test wing have secured the accident scene, and the crash is under investigation.

Although there were earlier reports that the F-22 had been part of the flyover being carried out by aircraft out of Tyndall Air Force Base to honor COVID-19 responders, an Eglin official said this was not the case.

The F-22 is a fifth-generation fighter and one of the world's most advanced stealth jets. The Air Force says "the F-22 cannot be matched by any known or projected fighter aircraft."

F-22 production ended about a decade ago, and the Air Force only has a little over 180 of these fighters in its inventory.



https://www.businessinsider.co...ir-force-base-2020-5


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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That's crazy! Glad that the pilot is OK

I know that I'm late to the part asking this but does anyone know why the F22 is no longer in production? If it's the best fighter in the world doesn't the USA want to maintain superiority over any other fighter?
 
Posts: 973 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 November 2019Reply With Quote
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Everyone said it was too expensive, so they introduced the F-35 the most expensive piece of crap ever. The Navy version (F-35C) costs $337 million a copy.

Never let the military talk you into a weapon system.

Another darling was the Bradley Fighting Vehicle - aka Turd On Tracks. We will never learn.

We should have stuck with the F-22 and the F-15 Silent Eagle.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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It was canceled after the Cold War ended. At the time the politicians decided that since no one else had a gen 5 fighter and wouldn't for at least 20 years why build more. The original proposal was for 750. Of course now both Russia and China have comparable fighters in less than 20 years.

It's the politicians not the military that drives what and how many gets built. I worked on the F-22 program from the outset starting with the ATF, YF-22 and F-22 production.


Roger
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Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Here's a good explanation why the program ended - https://www.defensereview.com/...nsereview-weighs-in/


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Wow that's crazy!

Be that as it may, what will we have to go up against the latest Russian and Chinese fighters if it isn't the F22? Maybe they have a secret program in the works?

Doesn't sound good..
 
Posts: 973 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 November 2019Reply With Quote
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This is the future - https://www.thedrive.com/the-w...-loyal-wingman-drone

And at $2 million a copy, it is a freaking bargain.

And the Kratos - https://www.kratosdefense.com/...aerial/tactical-uavs


Both can be controlled from the ground or though secure transmission from an manned combat or support aircraft. Once we start to get the man out of the cockpit, acquisition costs and time to market change quickly.

If we had bypassed the F-35, we would already be way ahead. The F-35 program sucked all innovation and development; and not just combat aircraft.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
This is the future - https://www.thedrive.com/the-w...-loyal-wingman-drone

And at $2 million a copy, it is a freaking bargain.

And the Kratos - https://www.kratosdefense.com/...aerial/tactical-uavs


Both can be controlled from the ground or though secure transmission from an manned combat or support aircraft. Once we start to get the man out of the cockpit, acquisition costs and time to market change quickly.

If we had bypassed the F-35, we would already be way ahead. The F-35 program sucked all innovation and development; and not just combat aircraft.


That is INCREDIBLE!!
 
Posts: 973 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 November 2019Reply With Quote
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I guess , in Warfare, the point of two machines battling it out, without humans directly involved escapes me. Confused

Grizz


When the horse has been eliminated, human life may be extended an average of five or more years.
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Posts: 1577 | Location: Central Alberta, Canada | Registered: 20 July 2019Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
Here's a good explanation why the program ended - https://www.defensereview.com/...nsereview-weighs-in/


Comparing the F-22 to a P-51 during WWII is ridiculous. It's a totally different world now. The report is a little fact and a lot of theory.

The F-22 program was a fixed price contract. But yes they do get the total development cost regardless of numbers actually built so a lower number costs more than the original 750.

EMD and the like is controlled by the DOD and the Air Firce not the manufacturer. The production rate is also dictated by congress In some years we built only 3 aircraft.

The manufacturers would love to build as fast as possible but aren't allowed. Nothing like trying to maintain a skilled workforce that has to sit around most of the year doing little or nothing. But of course the media experts will just blame it on the evil manufactures.

As I said earlier at least half of what is reported is fantasy especially the idea that about using an F-15 no matter how improved against any gen 5 fighter. It would make for a very short dogfight and not in the favor of the F-15.


Roger
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Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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The point that was being made is how the military procurement system operates today vs back when it was purely about getting advanced technology into the air.

From the 1970's onward, the military procurement system was more about politics and less about an efficient production system. New weapons systems had to be spread over as many manufacturers and states as possible so that Congress would see the funding benefit for their State.

It is a screwed up system that is now being realized in the F-35 which has so many design and production problems that some may never be corrected before it's end of life. https://taskandpurpose.com/mil...er-deficiencies-2020

Anyhow, politics and defence contractors are a bad mix and will only net more F-35's in our future.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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A fun movie on how screwed up the system has become.

The Pentagon Wars


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Where I worked we developed and manufactured the canopy removal rocket motor, for when the pilot ejects.
I guess it works.

M
 
Posts: 1223 | Location: Arizona | Registered: 09 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Amazing when you think about it that even a 300 Million dollar piece of machinery isn’t immune from failure
 
Posts: 973 | Location: USA | Registered: 10 November 2019Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Opus1:
The point that was being made is how the military procurement system operates today vs back when it was purely about getting advanced technology into the air.

From the 1970's onward, the military procurement system was more about politics and less about an efficient production system. New weapons systems had to be spread over as many manufacturers and states as possible so that Congress would see the funding benefit for their State.


I go along with you there! Even from my little corner of the program I could write a book on the procurement headaches.

Not only was there a requirement to spread it across many states but the government added the requirement to get small minority owned businesses into the system. Many had never been exposed to all the hoops they needed to jump threw just to become a supplier and how to understand and build to a mil spec. Plus many had never built parts even remotely like what was needed from them. On top of that the previously mentioned rate changes from year to also very much effects the small supplier. Getting spooled up and training a workforce only to build a small number per year hurts them too. I spent countless hours training these companies on what was needed from the manufacturing side. The contract side was somebody else's problem. When people wonder why things cost so much just taking a look at the long list of requirements will answer a lot the questions. But this is never reported.

We often said the F-22 is a Swiss watch with wings when you look at how picky the fine details are in its construction. You would never see that kind of effort put into a commercial aircraft. But it is a good airplane and has had an excellent safety record compared to most other fighters. Glad the pilot ejected ok in this recent incident.


Roger
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Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfredo C:
Amazing when you think about it that even a 300 Million dollar piece of machinery isn’t immune from failure


300 million? You could have bought two for that. Besides if man built it, Murphy can still destroy it.


Roger
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Posts: 2787 | Location: Washington (wetside) | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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You know how the procurement process works. They average (and guess) the cost over all Blocks and versions.

It is estimated the "current" real cost of a single Air Force F-35A is $148 million, the Marine Corps F-35B version is $251 million and the Navy F-35C version is $337 million. Of course the real costs are quite well hidden within the program.

It is estimated that the current total project acquisition cost is $1.196 Trillion and that's up $22 billion over last year's prediction to adjust for inflation and more cost overruns. And the total cost will be somewhere in the $1.5 trillion range, but that's only an estimate. I would bet we see another couple of $100 billion or more in hidden costs before this all ends.

Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to see this project cut and soon.


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