"Gentlemen",

It takes a bunch to get me out from under my rock, but this makes my blood boil. You wanna talk about tax's.........I pay MORE THAN MY SHARE. The road system's here in AZ are not typically bike friendly, you are on your own and take a chance every time you ride. Go ahead and make fun of our lycra, our shaven legs and our tradition.

WE on the other hand live healthy lives, unlike most of you fat old looser's here in cyberspace. This healthy lifestyle has allowed me to pursue game in some of this blue planet most remote and inhospitable place's, places that you scoff at.

A 50 year old that can do a 100 mile mountain bike race at 10,000 feet or hunt sheep in the brooks WITHOUT suffering.

Yes, there are those that are rude and do as they please but aren't there shooters that shoot up water tanks? and stop signs? is that representative of all shooters.

Go ahead laugh at how we dress and what we wear.......you're wive's don't

Steve,

Shaved legs!!!!!!! As long as it is not Andy shaving them as you read "Death in the Long Grass".

Hey Mike,

Nah, Andy wouldn't know a bicycle from a popsicle.

Hope your well buddy.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
"Gentlemen",

It takes a bunch to get me out from under my rock, but this makes my blood boil. You wanna talk about tax's.........I pay MORE THAN MY SHARE. The road system's here in AZ are not typically bike friendly, you are on your own and take a chance every time you ride. Go ahead and make fun of our lycra, our shaven legs and our tradition.

WE on the other hand live healthy lives, unlike most of you fat old looser's here in cyberspace. This healthy lifestyle has allowed me to pursue game in some of this blue planet most remote and inhospitable place's, places that you scoff at.

A 50 year old that can do a 100 mile mountain bike race at 10,000 feet or hunt sheep in the brooks WITHOUT suffering.

Yes, there are those that are rude and do as they please but aren't there shooters that shoot up water tanks? and stop signs? is that representative of all shooters.

Go ahead laugh at how we dress and what we wear.......you're wive's don't

First of all, you are missing the point. Even the rudest of "slobshooters" don't shoot signs in downtown traffic. Even they are smart enough to know the danger that would cause to all. Downtown bikers apparently don't have (or at least don't show) that much gumption. Their behavior is not only rude, but dangerous to all.

And, secondly, we are not talking about a small percentage of bikers in downtown traffic. It is not just SOME of them. It is the vast, easily observable, majority.

So maybe when your blood is boiling enough that you want to finally crawl out from under a rock and do something, instead of coming here and justifying the arrogant riff-raff who seem to be the great bulk of bikers we all see every day, try this: You could break the great "biking tradition" and try educating them about what jerks they are being in their disdain for and endangerment of others by constantly flaunting the rules of the road.

No? Somehow I didn't think THAT might be a serious option among the biking clan.......

"Instead of coming here and justifying"

I am doing no such thing, The traffic pattern you use, you most likely see the same ass wipes time after time.

I have been riding and racing for some 22 years now, YES.......many roadies are rude, don't stop, don't look, don't use the bike lane. But many many do.

And my comparison to painting all shooters with the same brush is accurate.

On a bike forum I frequent, they trashed all shooters for the action of a few, a popular rural shooting area is now in the impact area of a BLM national recreation trail. (Black Canyon Trail) google it, very very cool trail system. The BLM in all their infinite wisdom bypassed this trail right by this area causing a few conflicts. I defended the shooters then just as I am the bike riders now.

I ride my road bike mostly on rural two lanes, I feel much safer and get in better training rides. I occasionally get harassed by guys on choppers and the "girls" riding on the back, I have had cigs, beer bottles, spat upon, real close drive by's for no reason, yet I remain impartial enough to KNOW all Harley folks are not that way.

This blood in the water feeding frenzy to pick on a few guys wearing lycra only goes to show your narrow minded and don't like anybody impinging on YOUR roadway or getting in your way.

In Arizona, I don't pretend to know where you are, we have the same right to the road as do the cars we share it with. I understand that, even though I ALWAYS ride as far to the right as the road will allow for.

Look at some or the insane posts, making fun of helmets and the idiot with the train horn, give me a frickin break. You guys sound like the god damn greenpeace fruits banging pots and pans during deer season.

Go get off your sorry ass's and get in shape.

(just sayin)

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
"Instead of coming here and justifying"

I am doing no such thing, The traffic pattern you use, you most likely see the same ass wipes time after time.

I have been riding and racing for some 22 years now, YES.......many roadies are rude, don't stop, don't look, don't use the bike lane. But many many do.

And my comparison to painting all shooters with the same brush is accurate.

On a bike forum I frequent, they trashed all shooters for the action of a few, a popular rural shooting area is now in the impact area of a BLM national recreation trail. (Black Canyon Trail) google it, very very cool trail system. The BLM in all their infinite wisdom bypassed this trail right by this area causing a few conflicts. I defended the shooters then just as I am the bike riders now.

I ride my road bike mostly on rural two lanes, I feel much safer and get in better training rides. I occasionally get harassed by guys on choppers and the "girls" riding on the back, I have had cigs, beer bottles, spat upon, real close drive by's for no reason, yet I remain impartial enough to KNOW all Harley folks are not that way.

This blood in the water feeding frenzy to pick on a few guys wearing lycra only goes to show your narrow minded and don't like anybody impinging on YOUR roadway or getting in your way.

In Arizona, I don't pretend to know where you are, we have the same right to the road as do the cars we share it with. I understand that, even though I ALWAYS ride as far to the right as the road will allow for.

Look at some or the insane posts, making fun of helmets and the idiot with the train horn, give me a frickin break. You guys sound like the god damn greenpeace fruits banging pots and pans during deer season.

Go get off your sorry ass's and get in shape.

(just sayin)

Steve

Well, first of all I AM living in Arizona these days.

Second, I don't have a "pattern" to my driving. I have been retired for many years, and go pretty much wherever I want, when I want, so far as it is legal.

Third, You don't read, aparently. I never said a single word about lycra, never called anyone a faggot or any such thing. I don't CARE what their sexual orientation, colour, religion, dress, income, or any of those things are. I DO care about their attitudes, their ignoring the rules of the road, and the way they dangerously bugger traffic. Your comment about my supposed bigotry is simply crap brought on possibly by having no facts to support your ire.

Lastly, apparently your are assuming I am fat and badly out of shape. Not so you would notice it. I do have a military service connected disability, but it wasn't caused by sitting on my ass. It is the direct result of military service to save YOUR ass, among others.

Since you know absolutely nothing about me, your presumptions are pretty much typical of what I was talking about with bikers' attitudes. The same old "I'm a better person than you, so I can get angry at your complaints justifiably" bullshit.

"Holier than thou" doesn't cut it. If you want to be blind to the characteristics of the group being discussed, that is your privilege. That doesn't make my complaint invalid.

If the shoe doesn't fit you, then fine, don't wear it. Don't get your underwear in a knot over it.

Perhaps you are the one with a reading disability, If you look again, my comments are directed at the thread as an entirety. Please tell me where in Arizona you are speaking, I would be interested to know where these rude roadies congregate.

Bartlett Lake road perhaps? I'll agree, Mt Lemon? I'll agree. You are the one claiming it's not just a few and you will also see in my last post I tend to agree there are some real douche bags on bikes as there are slob shooters, motorcyclists, boaters, all special interest groups. Again the post is not aimed directly at you, (ie, the helmet and train horn reference) but the thread as a whole.

Tell me, a thread about a guy shooting down a tree with a double rifle??? is that not THE definition of a shooting slob? regardless of whose property it is on, yet nobody takes him to task? (one of us) is that representative of your shooting behavior? I'll bet not.

I partake in many many hobbies mostly outdoor related, I obviously ride and race bicycles, I shoot, I hunt, I really dig fast boats and cars. All these groups have the few looser's, my point to you again is we are all not like that.

And finally. Thank you for your service to this great country!!!

Steve

I don't like 'em either. They make it a point to get out here in rush hour traffic on our already overcrowded roads and it is common to have a mile or two of cars backed up behind some asshole on a bicycle wearing his Lance Armstrong lookalike outfit and acting like he owns the road, I'd like nothing more than to sideswipe his stupid ass. Some like Nganga claims may be courteous and responsible but where I live that seems to be the exception, most of 'em here are just rude and inconsiderate. I get really sick of them, hate 'em to be really honest.

Wolfspider,
Perhaps if you got out and challenged one or more of us to a dual with pistols at dawn?

BTW, Lance and I do not look alike, I have a significantly larger "package" than does he.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:

BTW, Lance and I do not look alike, I have a significantly larger "package" than does he.

Steve

I understand he survived testicular cancer, perhaps yours is no longer a fair comparison.

Hah!!! your not as ignorant as you seem.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
Perhaps you are the one with a reading disability, If you look again, my comments are directed at the thread as an entirety. Please tell me where in Arizona you are speaking, I would be interested to know where these rude roadies congregate.

Bartlett Lake road perhaps? I'll agree, Mt Lemon? I'll agree. You are the one claiming it's not just a few and you will also see in my last post I tend to agree there are some real douche bags on bikes as there are slob shooters, motorcyclists, boaters, all special interest groups. Again the post is not aimed directly at you, (ie, the helmet and train horn reference) but the thread as a whole.

Tell me, a thread about a guy shooting down a tree with a double rifle??? is that not THE definition of a shooting slob? regardless of whose property it is on, yet nobody takes him to task? (one of us) is that representative of your shooting behavior? I'll bet not.

I partake in many many hobbies mostly outdoor related, I obviously ride and race bicycles, I shoot, I hunt, I really dig fast boats and cars. All these groups have the few looser's, my point to you again is we are all not like that.

And finally. Thank you for your service to this great country!!!

Steve

Well, I see you have finally calmed enough to talk civilly and not accuse others of the things YOU see as inferior to your own sterling example. Good. I will do the same.

The most recent large group I encountered was last Tuesday, on Cave Creek Road between Lone Mountain Road and the Carefree Highway. I was too busy avoiding their careless, rude, antics to count them, but my guess would be 50 or so in that particular clutch. Some kind of organized cluster-f---.

All over the road, and as you likely know, Cave Creek Road is a 45 MPH zone in that area with a great deal of motorized vehicular traffic, particularly during the morning and evening rush hours.

It was severe enough the person behind me was not able to get sufficient clearance to make a left turn off onto an adjoining road at an intersection, so he continued north to the Carefree Highway, and went around again...east over to Scottsdale Road, south back down to Lone Mountain Road, west to Cave Creek Road again and back north again on Cave Creek Road to his turn off.

It was either that or stop the first time in the middle of Cave Creek Road until they cleared, which he didn't want to do because traffic was already screwed up and dangerous enough. It was a perfect example of a motorist being mature and safe, and a gaggle of bikers not being so.

That's only an extra 4-to-6 mile drive for him to get home, and he lives a block and a half (maybe two hundred yards) off Cave Creek Road so why would he complain? Don't know, but he sure did.

Anyway, I still think you would do yourself and all bikers a favor if you tried conveying to them exactly what contemptuous regard they are held in by non-bikers because of their foul behavior.

I know I have been doing that with shooters ever since I became a Hunter Safety Instructor in 1961, as Chief Range Officer at a 1,000+ members gun club range, as V-P of the Canadian Historical Arms Society, indeed, for the last 60 years or so everywhere I've had the opportunity to do so.

We haven't gotten rid of all the slob shooters for sure, but you guys haven't even put a dent in the huge population of slob bikers.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Anyway, I still think you would do yourself and all bikers a favor if you tried conveying to them exactly what contemptuous regard they are held in by non-bikers because of their foul behavior.

We haven't gotten rid of all the slob shooters for sure, but you guys haven't even put a dent in the huge population of slob bikers.

+1

Those of us trying to get to and from work each day are sick of their antics. I for one really do not like them.

This thread is amazing.

I just spent a week in Argentina killing doves and having great conversation with a guy who routinely rides a couple of hundred miles a week. In fact, he was to do a 50 mile ride when we got back to the states on a Saturday.

Oh, yeah. His name is Layne Simpson, the designer of the 7mm STW. Probably the most experienced around.

What's the point in the shaved legs?

I believe it's a sorta metrosexual thing - with the lycra-spandex and tap shoes.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
What's the point in the shaved legs?

Jarrod,
It's tradition, the original "intent" was in the event of a crash, your own hair would not be ground into the hamburger called "road rash" less infection.

No real reason for it now other than said "tradition". I do not. I see no point in it. Besides, where does one stop the shaving?

Rick,
For those that don't ride, I get complete solice, peace, and can blow off steam from a tough week. I get better hunts, better trophies, better health, better sex, more sex, less jetlag, more respect from Guides and PH's. I can eat almost anything I want in quantites you would not believe. See any negatives yet?

I rode 3 hours MTB Saturday and 70 miles on the road Sunday. I go to work fresh,ready to win the day. If I don't or can't go, I feel I cheated myself, and get irritable. Cycling is a disease that only more cycling can cure.

As a matter of fact, I am working on a charity event I want to do, (actually with another AR member)Cycle across Africa from Dar to the Skeleton Coast. My goal is to raise 2 million for the United Way. Its only 4000K. (looking for more sponsors)

It's no different than peoples addiction to reloading or range time.

Steve

Yep. Exercise is good for the body, soul, and mind. I've worked out for 28 years without missing more than a month here and there. Probably can count those on one hand.

I just am amazed at the intolerance for cyclists guys posted here. Layne that when he rides with friends or big groups, the motorists where he lives are very courteous and so are the riders. Could this be a regional hatred?

Ha!

I know what some are saying and have seen cyclists ignore the rules of the road as well, but can't imagine "being sick of f__king bikers!!!!" or feeling so strongly about it to post some of the nasty crap I see on this thread.

Rick,
I know, some of the comments are just off the charts nutty. Truth be known if I were given a choice between my hunting and my cycling.......that would be a very very difficult decision. I ride 12-20 hours a week and hunt a mere fraction of that. I just don't enjoy most cycling people. They are greenies beyond the pail.

I have the big 5 tattoo'd on my legs, now THAT makes for some interesting bike racing discussions. I'm a bit of a conundrum I guess.

Welcome back Rick,

Steve

I'll bet! Just tell'em that venison is "rocket fuel" for biking like Ted calls it!

It's funny but there's an article in tonight's newspaper about where bikers should ride, on the shoulder of the road or "take the lane" if no dedicated path is there. What's your preference?

Thanks for the "welcome"!

I actually look at it pretty mechanically. "IF" there is a bike lane, I ride on the far right hand side of that lane. I feel that the bike lane is "MINE" and therefore feel relatively safe in it. I will move about in it and avoid tire shards, rocks, sand, broken glass, dead animals and small children.

BUT...mostly there is no bike lane. Then, I become very submissive and will always ride on the right side of the white stripe. I will ride over obsticles, like above and just take my lumps rather than swerve into the roadway. The guys that get whacked are the ones who ride in traffic, "because they can".

The worst of the worst ride in traffic with an ipod, those guys are the ones you read about in the paper. You need your ears, it is really all about awareness.

When I ride across Africa, I will spend most of my time on the dirt on the road side with an escort vehicle behind me. Still, I will have eyes in the back of head. Depending on route I will try and stay off the main roads.

Make sense?

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
I believe it's a sorta metrosexual thing - with the lycra-spandex and tap shoes.

And I think your an Idiot, Further, your one of those guys that thinks Lance Armstrong isn't really an athlete huh?

quote:

Originally posted by rcamulia:
Layne that when he rides with friends or big groups, the motorists where he lives are very courteous and so are the riders.. Could this be a regional hatred?

Of course it could be. And I suspect that if the riders tried obeying the laws and being polite out this way (in the West), they'd not be extemely disliked by so many motorists in this area. It is not difficult for me to understand that riders who act like jerks who own the whole road earn the dislike for them.

Nganga - you're skirting the whole issue - the a-hole riders. I couldn't care less about your sainthood or Lance Armstrong's athletic prowess (whose perseverence I happen to admire). THEY"RE OFF TOPIC!

And I couldn't care less what you think of me. Got your goat, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
Nganga - you're skirting the whole issue - the a-hole riders. I couldn't care less about your sainthood or Lance Armstrong's athletic prowess (whose perseverence I happen to admire). THEY"RE OFF TOPIC!

And I couldn't care less what you think of me. Got your goat, eh?

1 shot,
I am NOT skirting the issue, you're the one who said were metrosexuals because of our shoes and lycra, (spandex is for ballerina's).

First, I am not the least bit insecure in my masculinity, What I cycle in is what makes sense. For you're information:

The tight little pants; They have a pad in the saddle area that was traditionally chamios, now they are for the most part synthetic, in contact with you're sesitive nether region you suffer less and get "fewer" saddle sores

The tap dance shoes; They have an extremely stiff sole, this transfers 100% power to forward motion, no wasted energy bending the shoe & there is a metal clip on the bottom that mechanically locks your feet to the pedals to allow for not only pushing down on the pedal but pulling up on the backstroke

The Jersey; The material is "coolmax" it wicks moisture away from your body for obvious reasons and there are pockets in the rear to put bike food, tubes tire tools etc.

And finally, I am not a saint as yet, close but not quite yet. FWIW, I do in fact think highly of Lance and he is a mentor of mine, BUT....did he race clean????

No you didn't get my goat, I simply called you out for your statement.

Now, you want to talk some hunting as well?

This thread is about why we hate the bikers that piss everyone off.

Let's talk about that here. You're evading the topic.

OK,
You hate me? you've never even met me? I don't hate you at all. As a matter of fact I hat no-one, hate is a very caustic word.

If you do some breathing exercises you may calm down a bit, you may notice your blood pressure may even go down some. Perhaps a bike ride may sooth you.

Peace Brother

Yer talkin' circle-speak.

1 shot,
This thread is a perfect exapmle of why I don't post on AR any longer, You just want a boggie man, It ain't me. Any group will have its idiots, yes there are plenty of cycling morons.

I'm not. I am exceedingly polite to a vehicle that outweighs me by 2 tons.

I saw this thread and just had to post, otherwise have not in a couple months. Back under my rock.

Cheers and go well.

quote:

Originally posted by Nganga:
You just want a boggie man, It ain't me. Any group will have its idiots, yes there are plenty of cycling morons.

Nope, I don't. I'm lookin' for a "saint" who will not only admit that there LOTS of a-hole bikers, but who will understand WHY they anger us so and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THEIR IDIOTIC BEHAVIOR! See my previous post about a self-policing group, for example. Obviously, you prefer to keep your head under your rock.

quote:

I saw this thread and just had to post, otherwise have not in a couple months. Back under my rock.

Cheers and go well.

And you didn't have anything to say but how "special" YOU are... Be well.

Nope,
Not gonna give you the satisfaction of the last word. Wanna talk special??

My life has been a gift, I started a business 20 years ago that has afforded me to hunt some of the world most magnificent beast in some of the most fantastic places. I have seen things and done things that very very few men are fortunate enough to see. I'm grateful for that, I have no one but my own hard work and my families patience to thank for that. Yeah I'm special.

Want more? Cycling? in this sport you get what you earn, if somebody else in your category wants it more you, don't get the top spot. I've won races with humility and lost races with Grace. You cannot purchase performance in cycling it is earned. It is respected by your peers, as they understand your efforts

If I came off as elitist, my apologies, not meant. If you look at my posts I said time and time again, there are plenty of assholes in my sport, go to the shooting range, plenty of assholes there as well, I don't ask you to police the range rats, I simply accept there are those among us that just flat don't give a shit about piss poor manners.

I understand we wont agree on this, not trying to make you, just want you to understand that every single activity people partake in there are the few that ruin it for the many. Heck, I love fast boats but stay away from the lake, can't take the hip hop culture that has invaded it. I just go when and where they are not.

Am I special, yep to those that it matters to I am.

Regards,

Steve

More about how special you are. Enough already, OK?

As for the idiot shooters, the shooters (Malvo's, those who deface public property, etc.) are dealt with by LAWS.

Let's talk about LAWS for the idiot bikers who, on a DAILY basis, perform the same infractions that impede the flow of vehicular traffic. Suggestions?

What cant accept an apology? not humble enough for ya? this is just 45 minutes of my life better spent elsewhere.

quote:

As for the idiot shooters, the shooters (Malvo's, those who deface public property, etc.) are dealt with by LAWS

Never have I seen this happen anymore than I've seen a guy on a bike get a ticket for running a stop sign!

One thing is for sure, the Goober with a firearm is a hell of a lot more of a menace than a Goober on a bicycle!

I think most of the anti-cyclists posting here would consider typing a capital "Q" (left pinky stretch while right pinky stretches to hit "shift") the most exercise they've had all day!!

You'll all pull a muscle trying to type an exclamation point and need to lay off the "keyboard workout" for a week!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh4WU031ET4

Dang Caz, I think thats me!!!!!

Rick,
We have discussed before how passionate we both are for our given pass times, I respect the time and effort that I know you have put into your marksmanship skills. I am the same about my cycling. E=R(2)

I truly feel there is a hole in the life of somebody that can do nothing but pick apart somebody else's passion without his or her own coming out.

I always thought the intent of an internet forum was for this exact purpose.

Take care and shoot well.

Thanks Steve!

Funny Video

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:
This thread is about why we hate the bikers that piss everyone off.

Let's talk about that here. You're evading the topic.

According to the originator of this thread, he's not talking just about "the bikers that piss everyone off", but all of them:

Originally posted by Rae59:
This ain't about motorcycles. They are licensed, insured, and legal. In other words they've paid their dues.
This is about bi-cyclers. Un-licensed, un-insured, un-legal, un-caring about taking up road space that others are paying for. They enjoy being obstructionist. A bunch of Lance Armstrong wanna-bes.
It is Socialism.....have others pay for their snarrling up of a productive society.

Interestingly enough there is an article this morning in The Arizona Republic (the daily Phoenix newspaper) about a whole community in neighboring Scottsdale, Arizona which is approaching the local government to take action to stop bikers from using the community's own PRIVATE road.

The bikers continue to traverse it downhill at very high rates of speed, endangering the kids in the neighborhood that owns, built, and maintains that road.

Again, a safety issue caused by bikers who do not obey the law because they don't find it convenient to do so.

The community's complaint is that although it signed as private property and that non-residents are verbotten, it is a steeply downhill paved road that can be used as a shortcut by the bikers if they violate the legal rights of the property owners. They are not only trespassing, but doing so in a way that endangers the residents' children.

Do some shooters do similar things elsewhere? Probably, But, this thread is not about slob shooters. To even bring shooters up in it is to drag a red herring across the thread and to hijack it to deflect criticism of our two-wheeled slob elitists.

It is about BIKERS. The original poster was talking specifically about bikers in Oregon, not the ones on the east coast. But, the problem is really found all over the western states, including Arizona.

"Biker" is two wheels and an ENGINE.

You're pissing & moaning about "CYCLISTS" . . .