While the designated American battle rifle during American participation in World War I was the M1903 Springfield, the adaptation of the British P-14 rifle - the M1917 Enfield - may have been the AEF rifle most issued. Apparently, at least some AEF units assigned to the British sectors of the Allied lines were issued SMLE No. 1 MK 3 rifles.

The Marine contingent of the AEF, USMC being the "runt of the litter" insofar as materiel issuance pertained, I don't know what they were using. Since I do not know whether any Marine units were assigned to British sectors, Marines may have been using more than one battle rifle.

What battle rifle did the Marine contingent of the AEF use?

To the best of my knowledge your 1st assumptions were correct with the 1903 Springfield + the P-14,either by Eddystone or Remington. However to get a real answer I would trust I would contact Bruce Canfield either online or through the American Rifleman.Please post your results. History is interesting.My great uncle fought in WW1 + told some stories when I was a kid. Wish he had told more.

On a major research campaign about WWI, East Africa in particular, so won't answer the question about the Marine Corp. Really like the Springfields over the Enfields.

The U.S. Rifle M1917 in .30-06 caliber, made by Remington, Eddystone and Winchester was issued to many U.S. Army troops after their arrival in Europe with the M1903 Rifle. The U.S. Marines arrived with their M1903 rifles and did not accept the M1917 rifle and fought throughout their deployment using their M1903s. When the Marines landed on Guadalcanal in the first U.S. offensive of WWII they were still armed with their beloved M1903 rifles.

During WWI the Marines replaced French and U.S. Army troops at Belleau Wood. Over several days of violent, bloody combat (June 1 -June 26), the Marines attacked the German troops in Bealleau Wood 6 times before they were able to clear the Germans from the woods.

Some famous quotes from and about the battle:

"Retreat? Hell, we just got here." Capt. Lloyd Williams, USMC

"Come on, you sons of bitches, do you want to live forever?" Gunnery Sgt. Dan Daily, USMC

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a United States Marine and his rifle." General John "Black Jack" Pershing - commander of the AEF

"We have Americans opposite us who are terribly reckless fellows." German army private, one of 30 survivors of a 120 man company.

"...vigorous, self-confidant, and remarkable marksmen..." Official German army report regarding the Marines.

"Teufelshunde" (Devil Dogs) term used by the Germans for the Marines.

U.S. casualties suffered during the battle: 9,777 including 1,811 killed. German casualties unknown but 1,600 were captured.

The 5th and 6th Marine regiments were awarded the French Fourragere for their actions at Belleau Wood.

It has been reported that Marines, using their M1903 rifles, made frequent 1,000 yard shots on German machine gunners sitting up in their positions, thinking they were beyond range of being killed.

Thanks Mike. I will also suggest as required reading,"A rifleman Went To War." by H. McBride.A story of a marksman in the trenches.

Oh as an addendum concerning WW2 in the Pacific,I recommend "Shots Fired In Anger" by Col. George.

Many thanks, Mike, for the information.

What has always amused me about the USMC on the western front in WWI has been the shock of the French at the marines fabricating sights for the French 75mm gun to use it as a "sniping rifle" against German machine gun nests...

Think on what happens when a 75mm projectile strikes the maxim gun itself, not to mention reduction of the three man gun crew into "pink mist" and scattered chunks...

The Marines in specific and the Americans in general weren't nearly as stupid as British or French troops to think that advancing on foot against well positioned machine guns was in any way a "good idea"

I have it as a fixed intention that should I ever visit England there are certain graves, all of WW1 British generals, that I must PISS ON....

I had been trying to remember a book which had a chapter about the use of various jungle knives .Is this the one ?

Shots Fired in Anger is also available on Kindle !

Well Allen while you're pissing,don't forget Gen. Haig who prefered the bayonet over the machine gun + swore adamantly until 1917 (when the powers that be shut him off) that the real way to win this war was with mounted cavalry.

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:
What has always amused me about the USMC on the western front in WWI has been the shock of the French at the marines fabricating sights for the French 75mm gun to use it as a "sniping rifle" against German machine gun nests...

Think on what happens when a 75mm projectile strikes the maxim gun itself, not to mention reduction of the three man gun crew into "pink mist" and scattered chunks...

The Marines in specific and the Americans in general weren't nearly as stupid as British or French troops to think that advancing on foot against well positioned machine guns was in any way a "good idea"

I have it as a fixed intention that should I ever visit England there are certain graves, all of WW1 British generals, that I must PISS ON....

I would like to know more about 75mm for sniping, I call BS

On the other hand, French were sniping MG positions for a long time before AEF arrived with 37mm cannons dedicated to this use and they trained the US soldiers to it..
Canon d’Infanterie de 37mm modèle 1916 TRP ( tir rapide, Puteaux )

Thanks for the very interesting discussion !

I apologize to other repliers for - wait for it - Edmond. When I had TEN consecutive replies, I put him on DO NOT ACCEPT ANY POSTS. Since I began this thread, I hope I have stopped his posts for everyone. If I have accomplished this only for myself, it's a single mouse click away for anyone else.

My screen now shows ten IGNOREs. I hope each of yours does also. Those who want to view them, again, each one is a mouse click away.

quote:

The U.S. Rifle M1917 in .30-06 caliber, made by Remington, Eddystone and Winchester was issued to many U.S. Army troops after their arrival in Europe with the M1903 Rifle. The U.S. Marines arrived with their M1903 rifles and did not accept the M1917 rifle and fought throughout their deployment using their M1903s. When the Marines landed on Guadalcanal in the first U.S. offensive of WWII they were still armed with their beloved M1903 rifles.

Purely by chance, I was reading some old magazines today before throwing them out and I came upon the May, 2012 American Rifleman which had a fairly exhaustive article on the 1917 Enfield. In that article was this:

quote:

By the time of the Armistice, some 1,123,259 M1917s had been shipped to France: 800,967 issued to troops and 322,292 "floated in bulk" (unissued in reserve). of this figure, 61,000 were reportedly issued to the US Marine Corps and 604 to the US Navy. (skipping text).....By the Time of the Armistice, an estimated 75 percent of th American Expeditionary Force (AEF) were armed with the "American Enfield".

Given that the maximum number of Marines in the AEF was less than 30,000 (one source says less than 25,000) it would seem that the Marines who were issued 61,000 Enfields, did accept the Enfield (like they were given a choice!!) and fought with it throughout the War.

You may believe whatever you like, however, the USMC DID NOT accept the U.S. Rifle M1917 for issue and continued to use their M1903 rifles throughout WWI and early (1942) WWII battles.

The USMC may have been forced to take a number of the M1917 rifles, I really don't know, but it was never issued to them and remained in storage, by choice.

Up until the establishment of what would eventually be known as the DoD in 1947 by President Truman, the Marines had a great deal of independence (choice, if you like) from the U.S. Army, in selection of weapons as well as all other issues, including the color of their shoes! Marines procured their personal armament through the U.S. Navy, and historically used different handguns and long guns than the U.S. Army.

I stand by everything stated in my initial post on this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by NormanConquest:
Well Allen while you're pissing,don't forget Gen. Haig who prefered the bayonet over the machine gun + swore adamantly until 1917 (when the powers that be shut him off) that the real way to win this war was with mounted cavalry.

As for Edmond's posts? good riddance

As for Edmonds disbelief on the use of 75mm guns used in "Direct fire" against German machine guns?

Fuck him. live in ignorance of the facts asshole.


Douglas Haig, 1st Earl Haig, is first and last on my list.

and frankly I could skip the rest and not feel any regrets...