I have the Lyman bullet mould # 457671 "45 Cal RN, GC 470 gr."
Cast in 10:1 lead/tin my bullets are .4595" diameter and weigh 475.3 grains on average.
With LBT Blue Lube and Hornady .458 gas check they weighed about 490 grains, after Lubrisizing to .459".

In my heathen days I loaded those bullets with 45.0 grains of Varget Extreme, WW 45-70 brass, and WLR primer.
28" barrel velocity: 1544 fps.
About 2 MOA for 3 shots at 100 yards with barrel sights, about as good as I can do with open iron sights.
Rifle is a Stoeger/A. Uberti Model 5012 SHARPS HUNTER 28" 45/70.
Salesman at the gunshow told me these were made by Pedersoli for Uberti. (???)
I got it new and cheap, my first "Sharps 1874."
It is a fairly light rifle weighing 8 lbs-12 oz. with round barrel of .827" muzzle diameter at 28".
I replaced the fiberoptic sights it came with, using Pedersoli Quigley parts ordered from VTI.
I now have a proper Shiloh "Long Lawrence Ladder" rear sight for this round barrel.
I sure would like to have a copper penny front sight, soon as I figure out how to make one.

Uberti 45-70 barrel specs: 1:20" twist, .450/.456 6-groove
Pedersoli 45-70 barrel specs: 1:18" twist, .450/.458 6-groove

I need to slug this barrel to see if it is .456" or .458" grooved, and try to tell if it is 1:20" or 1:18" twist, eh?

If I cast the GC bullet in 50/50 wheel weights and pure lead, and size it to same as groove diameter,
and use SPG lube,
can I use it succesfully with Black Powder loads?

What if this bullet with gas check is used in a BPCR?
Good, bad, ugly?

I would try the ww plus lead at .001 over groove size with no gas check as they may or may not be allowed at your local match. Why develop a load that cannot be used at the big matches. The bullet you are talking about will likely be ok in 20:1 twist out to 500 yards.

A gas checked bullet is not legal for BPCR. Get a Lyman 457121 flat nosed bullet and don't look back. At 480 grains, it is a great hunting bullet and accurate to 1000 yards and beyond. I shoot it in both my 1-18 twist and 1-20 twist rifles.

So a gas check in a BPCR could be good, neither bad nor ugly, just illegal for competition?
Sounds like they could be good then.

I'm gonna have more moulds than I can shake a stick at.

When dealing with the purists you will hear the worn out comment - These rifles were designed for black powder and lead bullets.

Fortunately for me they also work well with smokeless and gas check bullets. Many shooters talk about black powder upsetting the bullet base to make it fit better. I am not sure how that works with gas checks. I know smokeless loaded to the same velocities as produced by black powder works great for me.
I bought a large quantity of 325 grain gas check bullets cast for a Remington Hepburn in .40-70 Sharps Straight to use in my .40-65. To go along with that I had to find 41 caliber Lyman gas checks after they had been discontinued about 10 or 15 years. Eventually I located a large quantity that will last until I can get my own mold made.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
So a gas check in a BPCR could be good, neither bad nor ugly, just illegal for competition?
Sounds like they could be good then.

I'm gonna have more moulds than I can shake a stick at.

The blasphemy of smokeless 45-70 Govt. loads in a Sharps 1874 replica! I too will go on sinning with this rifle:





I slugged the barrel with one of the bullets it likes so much, and it measures .458 in the groove diameter.



After that I found a tightly patched jag and ball-bearing-handled rod: 1:18" twist
Looks like this Stoeger/Uberti is the bastard child of D. Pedersoli, or at least the barrel is!
No wonder it shoots.

Plastic buttplate is covered with a leather slip-on pad that corrects the LOP too:



The fiberoptic sights have been replaced with a Pedersoli "Quigley" front:



And the Shiloh Lawrence Ladder rear, the "Long" version (a short one is going on the McNelly 50-70 Govt.):







I had to use a Pedersoli "Quigley" saddle in the dovetail (above, "Quigley" Pedersoli parts from VTI),
with the Shiloh Lawrence Long Ladder for round barrel, which fit a bigger dovetail on the barrel.
I filed both the Shiloh and Pedersoli parts until they would fit together, then spot blued.
The Shiloh sight parts have the plum-colored hue and other looks of properly heat-treated machined steel that blues purple.

Thanks to Sharpsguy for cluing me in to ordering parts from Shiloh.

With the slip-on leather pad (ACTION brand), and barrel sights only on slim, round, 28" barrel, the rifle weighs 9.0 pounds.
With smokeless loads it is easily as powerful as a 45-120 using BP loads, and accurate enough for hunting with the 490-grain, gas-checked bullets.

That looks like a good set up. Once you get the right load and bullet and learn how to use the sights, it will be pure poison as a hunting rifle.

Sharpsguy,

I already have the right load and bullet for my heathen ways:
490-grain gas check bullet of 10:1 lead/tin at 1544 fps with 45.0 grains of Varget Extreme and WLR primer, with LBT Blue Lube, 2.583" C.O.L.
Surely less than 25,000 CUP and less than 25,000 psi, surely OK for this replica.

I reserve the right to sin with this cheap floozie now and then.

All other of my "BPCR" tools will not be so mistreated with smokeless and gas checks.
THIS ONE RIFLE can be re-barreled whenever I wear it out with gas checks and smokeless.

I have attended confession with Father Bagwell, aka sharpsguy.
I have seen the light after my latest backsliding.
This rifle deserves to be better cared for with flat based bullets cast from 50:50 wheelweights and lead, and charged with BP.
480-500 grainers at 1200-1300 fps work wonders on zebra at 161 yards, as well as on 1-ton bison even farther away:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqs543qxTHE

"This is a zebra kill made at 161 yards with a 45-70 Sharps rifle (480 gr. flatnosed bullet). The hunter is black powder ace Bill Bagwell. The hunt was conducted on South Africa's Eastern Cape with Africa Bushveld Safaris (www.africabushveldsafaris.com) with professional hunter Andries Nesenberend."

They didn't have wheel weights in the late 1870s so you are using a corrupted metal for your bullets. It needs to be a binary lead-tin alloy to be pure. You also have to ride horse back wearing buckskins to the range. The range should be at least 30 miles away so you have to sleep over night on the trail coming and going.
If you compromise on the bullet metal the next thing you know you will be driving to the range in an airconditioned vehicle. A real bullalo hunter can't drive to the range. Just saying you have to keep it really pure to keep the purists happy.

Binary lead-tin alloy? Are you kidding me? Your ignorance really is on display here. You need to do some research.

What is this research that you recommend?
Do you claim lead tin alloys do not work?
Are you saying that buffalo shooters used wheel weight metal?
Want to wager that wheel weights were not a metal of choice in the 1870s? What brinell were wheel weights back then? What are the percentages of pure wheel weight alloy?

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
Binary lead-tin alloy? Are you kidding me? Your ignorance really is on display here. You need to do some research.

I don't do research for trolls. And that is all that you are are doing--trolling. If you can't make black powder work in these rifles, have the decency to get back on the porch where you belong and shut up and listen. You might learn something at some point.

You seem unable and unwilling to back up anything you say. Perhaps you should shut up until you figure out how to do that. While you are at it learn that you do not get to tell everyone how to think.
You know as well as anyone that lead tin alloys are the preferred alloys of most BPCR competitors.

quote:

Originally posted by sharpsguy:
I don't do research for trolls. And that is all that you are are doing--trolling. If you can't make black powder work in these rifles, have the decency to get back on the porch where you belong and shut up and listen. You might learn something at some point.

Ho ho! I got the last one of these at Midway yesterday, now out of stock, backorder OK.

Lyman 1-Cavity Bullet Mold #457121PH 45 Caliber (457 Diameter) 475 Grain Whitworth




Ditto this one too:

Lyman 1-Cavity Bullet Mold #457125 45 Caliber (458-459 Diameter) 500 Grain Round Nose

The "Government" boolit:



I bought out Midway's stock!