Are investment grade knives proving to be good investments?

My off the cuff answer would be a resounding "NO". First you have to define "investment grade" and, IM experience, the only way you can make a real rate of return on knives is to buy them from an up and coming knife maker before he is discovered. That ain't easy to do. Plus the costs of selling can be quite high depending on what venue you use. Buy "em because you like 'em, not because you expect to make money on them.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
My off the cuff answer would be a resounding "NO". First you have to define "investment grade" and, IM experience, the only way you can make a real rate of return on knives is to buy them from an up and coming knife maker before he is discovered. That ain't easy to do. Plus the costs of selling can be quite high depending on what venue you use. Buy "em because you like 'em, not because you expect to make money on them.

Very true.

Guessing what is going to be collectable is a real crap shoot. The same way with firearms.

Custom firearms are way worst. Can't believe knifes are any better.

Depends on what you mean by "good investments"



If you mean, can you buy them new or even used and expect to resell for a profit, In my experience, no.

However if you are talking pride of ownership and the sheer pleasure of using a fine tool, that was created by the mind and hands of an artisan, many times based on a collaboration between you and he, then I for one would give a resounding yes!


Here is Rick Menefee's version of a Randall A-1 fighter.







You could buy three Randall's for what this would cost, if you could even get Rick to make you one. I have about 45 to 50 of Rick's knives. He had told me he'd make me one about five years ago. It finally came about last year. I specified that I wanted A2 steel, with an etched finish and the leading edge of the spine sharpened.

Only one other knife Rick makes that I am lusting for. I would consider it to be the capstone of my Menefee collection and this one, and I may catch flack from the owner if he sees me post this picture......




I've "commissioned" several Nessmuk sets from different makers. I contact them, tell them what I'm thinking about, ask if they would be interested and go from there.

Here is a set by Dale Howe, Howe Mountain knives, in A2, etched finish @60Rc, and weathered elk scales that the maker picked up on his Wyoming property.








Another "Nessmuk set" by Gene Ingram. Gene has been making knives for quite a spell and typically makes smaller knives according to established patterns. I called and asked if he would be interested in fashioning set of working knives with particular emphasis on a Nessmuk style blade shape, the other could be according to his taste. I wanted the set to be of A2 steel, etched finish. I happen to like desert ironwood and he said he had some that would work. This is what he came up with......







Spend much time perusing custom knives and one will hear the moniker "R.W. "Bob" Loveless. I was perusing a particular tome and happened on a picture of S.R. Johnson' "Loveless Lambs". It was a three knife set.





Well it seem that Mr. Johnson's lambs would set a guy back between $10-$15 Large, and that's above my pain threshold. I asked both Gene Ingram and T.K. Steingass if they would be interested in fashioning a set for me. Gene does not do bolsters. I sent him photos and we agreed to try some dyed camel bone scales.

Here is Gene's interpretation of RWL "lambs". S30V steel, dyed camel bone scales







and the TK Steingass set. White Linen Micarta, 154CPM scales, stainless furniture and black G-10 pins.








I figure I ruin the "collector value of all my customs as I use them.


Ya, I could use a $25 Forschner, and do,



but then it's just a tool.

A couple more and I'll 1 quit.







Howe Mountain "Buffalo Skinner" 3V steel and Ram's horn.



Tim Olt "Hunter", Musk Ox scales, 154CM steel.







ya!


GWB

quote:

A couple more and I'll 1 quit

Ha.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:

quote:

A couple more and I'll 1 quit

Ha.

Dave

Not quit buying knives,

just quit posting them in this thread!



ya!

GWB

Those Steingass skinners are things of beauty!

It is good that a financially successful person such as yourself was able to find a passion on which to spend his spoils.

Speaking of Steingass knives.

I did not order these.

A friend saw them on BladeForums and contacted me. I couldn't post an "I'll take them" quick enough.



Exhibition grade Ironwood, Stainless furniture and 154 CPM steel.




and one more that I happened upon!

According to TK, this was the first of his rendition of a "Clay Alaskan Skinner"





ya!


GWB

I enjoy vicariously your collection of knives and guns. Great taste!!

Best regards,
WHM77

Knives are like any other investment. The best investments are purchases that are made when no one is seeking the product so that there is no premium for the name or anticipated increase in price. As the product gains demand the price increases which means that the potential increase is less.

Think of it as automobiles standing still. Some cars will have a top speed of 70 mph, others 120 mph, others still 160 mph and a very few 200 mph. Clearly the faster ones have more top-end than the lesser ones, but you are interested in the portion of acceleration from when you pick the car to its top speed. So you can pick the slow one when it's going 10 mph and you can get an increase of 60, which calculates as a 500% increase. Or, you want something with a trackrecord so you watch the 160 mph car as it accelerates, but you're concerned about its potential so you wait until it has proven itself and reached 80 mph at which point you buy into it. The car goes up to 160, which is an increase of 80 mph, so it is more than the first choice, but it only reflects a 100% or doubling of its speed. In terms of increase the first one is the much better choice.


Same thing applied whether you are getting baseball cards, paintings or guns and knives. Find something that you identify as being "good", get it, put it away and check it in 20 years. If you have chosen wisely, others will have found it, the demand will cause a price increase and you will look very smart.


Did any of you by Microsoft stock in 1986?

quote:

Originally posted by Ray B:

Did any of you by Microsoft stock in 1986?

Nope, I wuz just trying to stay afloat. I was reeling from the oil crunch. My house and cars got re-poed. The rent house we moved into flooded twice in the first six months we were there and my wife had an allergic reaction that put her in bed for the next six months. Had 3 kids in diapers, no job, other than throwing a paper route each morning for $100 per week, wholesaling cars during the day then delivering pizza in the eves. What is the old line about "what doesn't kill ya' makes one stronger". Looking back, I tend to think that I would not have minded a tad bit less strengthening!





ya!


GWB

GWB

But obviously you came out of that ordeal much the better. Something must have happened and some opportunity must have come along or you would not be able to afford the beautiful collection of knives that you have shown us, plus the many you have not shown us. Or was it just being in the right place at the right time.
(which is what my Dad used to tell me hunting was)

When it comes to killing, I've always been lucky!


In regards to your question, to make a long story short........

Dumb luck will beat ability every time.

However, there is usually a tad more to the story than dumb luck.

You've heard it said that timing is everything, well it may not be everything, but being in the right place at the right time with a couple other essential ingredients helps immensely.

So, I can amplify if you'd like to hear the un-abridged version, but for now let's just say I happened to be at the right time and right place with the right skill set. As it turned out, every thing I had done from the time I was 10 in 1961 when I started mowing yards through 1995 when I acquired my first income property prepared me to have the skill set to take advantage of the opportunity that was afforded me. Unlike many men I knew when I went broke, I was fortunate enough to still be at the age where I had the stamina to work a hundred hours a week. I was lucky and have been blessed.

For years I lived well below my means, did not purchase depreciating assests over time, only appreciating assets. I understood the lesson of "ham and eggs", bought low, sold high, collected early and paid late. The last time I wrote a commercial real estate appraisal was 1996 and the last time I wrote a real estate contract as a broker was 1998. I have lived out of my investments since 2000 shortly before I turned 49.

Here is an aside! I drove my 1997 Ford F-350 for 17 years from 2000 to 2017, when I sold it to my son. He has it and I will drive it when I need a 1 ton truck. I paid $25K cash, and then borrowed against the title a couple times to buy mobile homes that I could rent out for $550 per month, in my trailer parks. I have no problem paying 2% interest to make 78% interest.

One more: Say you were to go and buy a new truck today and financed it over 6 years. At the end of that 6 year period your truck would be worth $15k or so. What if instead you paid $5k or $8K for a used vehicle, then took $750 each month and bought a used firearm at a value (say 40% to 60% of MSRP). At the end of 72 months your firearm collection would be worth considerably more than that truck.....

Two more thoughts and end of rant.

One doe not have to do a thousand things right. One thing done right a thousand times works pretty good also, and as Yogi Bear said, "ya got to be smarter than the average bear"!

ya!

GWB

quote:

from the time I was 10 in 1961

A year older than myself.

A very interesting story. I have always said that as pretty as they might be, nice guns and nice knives are not really interesting until one knows the story behind the man or woman that owns them!

And I wholeheartedly agree that one has to be smarter than the average bear in order to not be an average bear. Yogi was right.

Lindy, the handle materials can make a difference. Right now GOOD stag increases value ..pearl too.
Just depends on the maker and the piece. But always check a makers second market to give an idea.

Unfortunately, for most makers, and for most artists in general, it seems like one has to die in order for their stuff to shoot up in value. I suppose that's because collectors know that when a person dies there is instant scarcity because that name can make no more.

I shudder to think of all of the things I could have bought in the 70's for very little money (but I didn't have any either) that I could have sold for big money today.