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Obsolete German cartridges
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I've had the privilege of working with some fine old German firearms, drillings, combination guns and double rifles, and have worked up accurate, (in my rifles), and safe loads for several old cartridges for which data is unavailable. The list is as follows:

9.3 X 75R Nimrod
10.5 X 47R
360 X 2 7/16, evidently
9 X 71 Peterlongo
A 9mm cartridge which no one can identify but I use 30-40 Krag brass to form.

If anyone has a firearm chambered in any of these cartridges and would like to peruse my loads I'd be glad to share. Shoot me a PM.


DRSS: E. M. Reilley 500 BPE
E. Goldmann in Erfurt, 11.15 X 60R

Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it
 
Posts: 502 | Location: In The Sticks, Missouri  | Registered: 02 February 2014Reply With Quote
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thank you.

Knowledge not shared in knowledge lost...
 
Posts: 23062 | Location: SW Idaho | Registered: 19 December 2005Reply With Quote
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Picture of Snellstrom
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I would love to see a picture of those cartridges you listed, especially the unknown one.
 
Posts: 5603 | Location: Eastern plains of Colorado | Registered: 31 October 2005Reply With Quote
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Snell, I only have a picture of one of them so I'll make it a point to take some with a brief explanation.


DRSS: E. M. Reilley 500 BPE
E. Goldmann in Erfurt, 11.15 X 60R

Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it
 
Posts: 502 | Location: In The Sticks, Missouri  | Registered: 02 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Ok, here we go, left to right. 10.5 X 47R This cartridge started life as a 348 Winchester and was formed to 11.15 X 60R, or 43 Mauser, by Buffalo Arms. When I acquired my combination gun in 10.5 I sacrificed a box of 20 43 Mauser cases to make it. It was sized down in three steps in three different dies, trimmed and fireformed.

2nd from left is the 9mm cartridge no one on 2 continents has been able to identify. However, we have a plausible explanation but it is still speculation. It is chambered in a hammer drilling marked 9 X 57/360 from pre 1893. We know this because of the lack of proofs marks that were required after the 1893 proof law. When I received the drilling I made a chamber cast, something I do with every old gun I acquire, and had an "uh-oh" moment. The cast was not the 9 X 57/360. Measuring the cast and comparing the dimensions to my resources showed it could easily be made from 30-40 Krag brass but there was nothing in my books it matched. Nor is there in any thing in any of the references my German Gun Collector Assn. friends have, here or in Europe. Forming brass a easy, open the case up to 9mm and fireform, done. I call it the "9 X 30US". A friend suspects it was a war trophy and as that cartridge was not available at sporting goods stores in the US after WWII the previous owner had it rechambered to something easily made from common brass. I expect 30/40 Krag brass was stil pretty common and popular right after WWII.

3rd is a 9.3 X 2 & 7/16R. Old black powder cartridge easily made by simply shortening 9.3 X 72R.

4th is a 9 X 71 Peterlongo. Think 35 Whelen on steroids...but I don't load it that hot. It took a bit more work. Starting with 9.3 X 74R brass I turned the rim off, recut the extractor groove then sized the neck to 9mm, fireformed the case and sent two cases to CH-4D and they made me a set of dies. Fine and accurate cartridge and rifle. Johann Peterlongo did good stuff!!

The last is a 9.3 X 75R Nimrod. It was a bit of a challenge as there was no reference anywhere that I could find. Started with a chamber cast and with the help of Axel Eichendorf in Germany who figured out what it was and came up with some ballistics I began work on the cases. I probably could have used 9.3 X 72R brass but opted to spend a lot of money and acquired Bertram's 9.3 X 82R brass so they would be the right length. Sizing the neck in a 9.3 X 74R die was easy enough but the case body about an inch in front of the rim was still too big. Mike Ford, a German gun guru and friend, suggested a 38-55 die to take the body diameter down. I bought a cheap set of Lee 38-55 dies, removed the decapping stem from the sizing die and ground out the threads so the case would pass through the top of the die. After annealing the cases it worked like a champ. Load development was fairly straightforward and the old Thieme & Schlegelmilch drilling it is chambered in shoots exceedingly well.

Here they are.



DRSS: E. M. Reilley 500 BPE
E. Goldmann in Erfurt, 11.15 X 60R

Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it
 
Posts: 502 | Location: In The Sticks, Missouri  | Registered: 02 February 2014Reply With Quote
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Impressive the efforts you have gone to...and you creativity. You have gone way beyond any of my efforts.
I was surprised to find how difficult it was to find brass and bullets for the seemingly ordinary 6.5x58R. Finally found one supplier of .261 soft point bullets and used 9.3x72R brass, shortened, turned and formed, until I came up with some old RWS brass through a German friend. At such low pressures, they should last a lifetime.
 
Posts: 1312 | Location: MN and ND | Registered: 11 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Thanks Jon, it's a labor of love. All those cartridges except for the Peterlongo are also low pressure cartridges. As with your 6.5 they should last as long as I'm around and probably through the shooting career of my two sons.

RWS is good stuff!! A friend sent me some 7 X 57R that I necked up to 9 X 57R and it's a great deal better than the 9 X 57R Buffalo arms offers made from 444 Marlin.


DRSS: E. M. Reilley 500 BPE
E. Goldmann in Erfurt, 11.15 X 60R

Those who fail to study history are condemned to repeat it
 
Posts: 502 | Location: In The Sticks, Missouri  | Registered: 02 February 2014Reply With Quote
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