Well howdy!
All of these bullets fit in the 3.0" boxed .458 B&M, with no modification, and a crimp used:

350-grain TSX
450-grain North Fork SP, FP, CP
325-grain Hornady Leverevolution
Easy to feed that rifle for any purpose.

Your .458 B&M dies by Hornady work great as crimpers.
I know it is not necessary.
I think it makes for a really pretty load with a slight crimp.

Just an observation.

A 300 version can be made and on a 300 WSM donor with ease and could have the same capacity as the 300 HH and a 7MM version the same capacity as the 7 Mag

Only problem is if you do a 300 B&M there would be all kinds of poop slinging about how the 300 HH is descended from the gods and anything that tries to imitate it is monkey crap.

Pioneers get the arrows.

A 7 and 300 version would be great in terms of load development and ease of conversion from 7 and 300 WSM guns if made to have identical capacities.

An 8mm version would be a modern 8 Lebel. from 325 WSM's

Boomy

First and foremost, I don't have any use at all for a 30, and damn sure no use for a 7 anything. So there is no future in either of those, not by me on a B&M case. Second, I think most bullets will be too long for the case and the magazine fit. I am able to take the bore down to 9.3 and fit most all bullets, but going just down to 358 most bullets start to get too long for the magazine. I have never even considered anything less than 358. From the original specs on the 458 and 416 B&M I shortened the neck to make sure most all bullets would fit proper in the case and then in the magazine. While I have not checked anything below 358 I am quite sure most bullets would not work in the magazine.

Received two new stocks from Accurate Innovations yesterday! Both AA English and destined for two new 500 MDM rifles that are waiting on them. Still one more of these to come, and then a B&M stock in English and one in maple on the way!


Have been sick all week, and it's continuing today. No shooting this week!
Michael

Another spot of news on the B&M front! 458 B&M Super Short rifle is completed, 458 B&M SA DPMS is completed, 375 B&M Winchester M70 completed. Now will be waiting on Hornady dies for these three, still probably 2-3 months on the dies. Standard procedure these days is order 5 sets of dies each. This way have some on hand.

Michael

Michael,
Stop it with the completed rifles ... I'm still hanging on here for the 458B&M project to be completed. Cant be too long now ... always feels like an eternity!
Cheers...
Con

458 B&M SA DPMS is completed!!!
Man, that was quick!!
Happy Days

John

Con

I was wondering how you were coming about down there? Keep us posted, and some photos when you finish would be very nice???

FYI--currently there is now a 50 B&M and 416 B&M residents of Australia official-in country!
Yours I think will be the first 458 B&M in country!

I will only be an assist on the 375 B&M as JohnOMS will be handling that, hopefully he can post us some photos when he gets his hand on it.

I am looking forward to playing with the little WSSM version of the 458 Super Short, I used another hillbilly camo gun for the first one of those in stainless, 16 inch barrel! Should be good fun. It's been on the books to do for several years, but there have been a lot of other things ahead of it.

The 458 B&M SA DPMS, off shoot of the .500 caliber version. I think it is going to be a hammer with 300-400 gr bullets. You guys know I am not a nut case with the semis, but I have been having some fun playing with the 50 B&M SA. Back in 2005 when I developed this 2 inch version I had nothing to work with but the .500 caliber bullets available at that time. I had yet to discover some of the bullets I now have, so I have been doing some things with these bullets. Currently the 50 B&M SA can run a 300 gr Hornady Flex at 2492 fps, 325 Barnes X at 2378 fps, 350 SSK Brass HP at 2301 fps, 385 Rem at 2145 fps, 400 Sierra at 2053 fps, and the 426 SSK Copper HP at 2031 fps. Now I don't keep up with semi auto guns or catridges at all so how does this stack up in the semi world????

Michael

Well, lets see:

AR-15 Upper
50 Beowulf: 350 gr bullet @ 1800...24 inch barrel
458 SOCOM: 300 gr bullet @ 1800...20 inch barrel

AR-10 Upper
450 Marlin: 400 gr bullet @ 2000...24 inch barrel

These are all at MAX pressure
Your doing just fine.

John

Phats

Ok, both 50 B&M SA and 458 have 18 inch barrels. Someone has a 450 Marlin on an AR-10 upper? That's neat. The 458 B&M SA will out perform a 450 Marlin by a good margin. Guessing right now, but I think with 300-400 gr bullets about 200 fps shy of 458 Win Mag.

Interesting.

Michael

Accuracy Systems makes it.
My bad, its a 20 inch barrel.
450 Marlin with 400 gr. bullet @ 1850 fps

The upper costs $2400 bucks and the round has some problems in the mags because of the belt. "I was told this"

So Yes you do have 2 of the hardest hitting AR's in the world!!

John

Would you mind posting a pic or two of the DPMS and the new round?
PLEASE....PRETTY PLEASE

Thanks
John

Thanks John for the info. Like I said I don't keep up at all with the various ARs and what is going on there. I have plenty of that sort of thing, AR's-HK's mostly. But I really don't mess with them much, sort of like tools, hammers and screwdrivers, have a purpose, but nothing one has great admiration for, but expects them to work.

With the 50 there has been very little issues at all. Feed lip adjustment and it feeds like a champ. It even feeds a 400 Sierra with the flat lead nose on it, just gobbles them up. At 2000-2100 fps that is a hell of a good bullet, and the 350 Brass HP at 2300 is a hammer. I have about 500 rounds through the gun now since the feed lip adjustments to two magazines and it has not missed a beat since. Even functions with low velocity stuff around 1500-1600 fps. Lot's of fun I have to admit.

I am looking forward to getting the 458 B&M SA in and start working with it. Dies are still going to be a few months however. Not sure I can hobble anything up yet. I sent Brian brass and 458 B&M dies this past week, he is working on getting brass and other things to Hornady for the dies this coming week and is supposed to work with the guns gas system some this week too. Once that is done it will be on the way to me, probably a couple of weeks, along with some fired brass. So when I get that I will post it.

I think too later this week I might go down and post it in the military section and see what those guys think about them??? I am sure most of those guys don't get up here to big bore often, majority anyway.

Good fun!

Michael

Michael,
If the 458 B&M SA will fire 405 gr. Rems @ 1800 I will be a happy camper and will start saving for it. That was my favorite 45/70 load.
But MORE is always better

The Military guys are going to want to know how well the 50 shots heavy bullets at subsonic velocity, for a suppressor.
Those boys are sneeky like that.

John

Congrats! Phatman invited me over to check out the project. Many moons ago we built the .470 Rhino, which launched a 500 gr slug at 2100 fps from a 24" barrel - which is what the customer wanted (duplicates .470 Nitro performance). We wanted to do a .458, .416, .375 and .338 version, but the custom brass was the albatross. The .416 version would duplicate the .416 Rigby, which was a nice goal.

DPMS stopped making the RSAUM uppers, so that makes getting parts a bit more challenging, but Armalite still offers magnum uppers IIRC.

Very nice job, getting custom brass is a pain at best!!

Hey Marty

Thank you. Well, so far so good. It was a rather easy convert with the DPMS in 30 RSAUM. Since the case is based off the Ultra mag case anyway. It has been a surprisingly easy project with few complications. I expected more complications than what we have run into so far. A little feed lip manipulation on the magazines was all that was required for it to start running proper! I suspect the 458 version will be the same.

As for the brass, basing off the Ultra case is a plus, plenty of that stuff. I have been buying it 500 pieces at a time, and having a friend of mine do the cutting and trimming. Basic brass is ready to load and shoot for the 50s, the other brass can be formed easy in the size dies.

On some of the projects you have worked on however I can see where brass would be a major issue!

Semi auto is fun, but not really my thing. But have to admit the rifle is fun to shoot and I do look forward to playing with the 458 version! I think it is going to be a kicking round for the DPMS gun!

Thanks again.
Michael

Wow. That 1885 .50 B&M is awesome. How does it shoot?

3 1/2

You Mean these 1885s?


I love the 1885s, I like Ruger #1s and many other single shots, but 1885s are my favorites for sure! So I bought a few of the 1885s chambered in the WSM cartridges and they made very easy converts to 50 B&M, 458 B&M and 416 B&M. Now with the addition of the 9.3 and any of the others, they too would fit these guns nicely. How do they shoot? Better than I can shoot them for sure. But the truth is I have not spent a lot of time with them yet. Like many things, they have taken a back seat to the bolt guns since I developed the series. I still have not fully decided what sight system I like best on them either. Still looking into that. In the meantime I have been using the XS Ghost ring that mounts a QRW base. It's ok, but just does not look all that good. Like I said, just have not spent enough time with the guns.

The 50 B&M with it's 20 inch barrel will shoot 510 SSK Solids at 2150 fps, the 458 B&M will handle 500 gr bullets at 2200 fps with it's 24 inch tube, and the 416 B&M with the 24 inch tube will shoot 350s at 2550 fps or better. None of these I have spent any time developing, just shooting the same loads that shoot in all the bolt guns. They carry great even with the long barrels.

Michael

3 1/2

MISTAKE MISTAKE MISTAKE!!!!!!! You see, I told you I have not done enough with the 1885s, the 50 B&M has a 22 inch barrel, not 20 inches! With a 22 inch barrel it is the same overall length as a 18 inch bolt gun and the 24 inch guns are the same overall length as a 20 inch bolt gun.

Michael

The 500 Caliber lineup. Bolt guns---single shots---lever guns---semi auto--one for every occasion!!!!!!!!!! Short ones, long ones, fat ones!

Are you going to ream out any of the 500's on BRF's to have a wheel gun in one of your carts at your side on your next safari?

Keep the OAL under 3" and you can do a 50 B&M wheel gun AND your billy club 50 B&M rifle.

NO Boomy, I am not! A 50 B&M Wheel gun would weigh as much, maybe more than the rifle would! ON MY SIDE? Would have to have two of them, one on each side so I would not be out of balance and fall over on one side! If I fell over, I might not be able to get back up again? Be like a turtle on his back with legs and arms kicking trying to "right" myself! What a hoot that would be! I could tell you a story about that with a moose leg one time! In the rain, on my back, can't get up!

LOL

Michael

Boomy

Oh, and you have not said a damn word about my stocks up above! What's that about?

M

Oh, I thought those were gun stock war clubs
I was admiring them earlier...
They seem to have a great grain pattern.
I think a lot of the desirable pretty wood makes for a weak stock but those are lovely.
In case the gun becomes unable to fire or you run out of ammo it needs to be a potent club and not break. My dream stock is a one piece desert ironwood stock. Rosewood would be a lot cheaper though. Would have to make it a trim stock as to not be too heavy. Maybe solid magnesium one too! Could double as a fire starter

Boom

I was very pleased with the stocks. That's the first English I have had done and it is nice. It is a little heavier than the Claro and the Turkish, by at least a 1/4 lb. But suppose to be nice and strong for the big bores. I am going to build 5 458 Lotts out of some Winchester M70s I have here that I can't do something else with easy. So I think I am going to do at least 2-3 of them with this English wood.

These two sticks are on their way for 2 500 MDM rifles. Waiting on a third stick.

Michael

Doc M,
I decided to use a Connecticut M70 Stainless Classic Short Action (270 WSM) to rebarrel.

I like the simpler old trigger better for a big bore .458 B&M.

Same sights as you use on yours.
Brian will fit them.
Brian will confirm the throat dimensions for me, so I can consider lengthening it slightly, if needed for long-nose loadings.

I can put the B&C "Kevlar" stock on the .458 B&M and I will then be crapping in the high cotton!

RIP

OK, Well New Haven guns is all I have ever used. I have always thought to get one of the New SC guns (just because it's SC) and give one a go. Still have not done so of course, and I have yet to even lay hands on a new SC gun! So you think the new trigger system might be a little finicky on a big bore????

Yep, NECG rear. Nice basic sight. Of course I like the barrel band fronts too, but they are a little pricy by the time they are installed proper. But they add that much class to it as far as I am concerned. Personal preference sorta thing for me.

Yeah, you and Brian sort your details out! I can't wait to see it up and running! I also want to get one of those B&C stocks later on this summer!

Talked to Brian this morning and Wes at Accurate Innovations. I have a bunch of useless 300 winchesters and 7mm things laying about during my Win M70 buy up over the last few years. So I decided to build a run of 458 Lotts, Michael style. 22 inch barrels, barrel band front and NECG rears, some blue, some armor, think a couple of stainless, have Accurate Stocks on, some english, turkish maybe even claro or two. Anyone wants one I will have a few here. What it costs me is what it costs whoever. I will probably put a few over on gunbroker. Last thing I need is anymore 458 Lotts, retired all the ones I have. But figure it's a good thing for the shooting world to have some good proper Winchester M70s out there in 458 Lott! I probably will get a "Sainthood" or something for such a good deed! At least maybe an "honorable mention". I gave Brian the go this morning on one he had there anyway. Take that one when done, send it to AI for stock fitting, then build the other 4-5 rifles this summer. Good fun!

Hey, I also got two new Win M70s in 300 RUM in this weekend! So that's two more for 500 MDM projects. Both blue!

OK I have to go try and do a little self surgery! You know that tooth I had removed last week? Well got a little bone trying to work it's way out of there and it's poking through my gum and rubbing my tongue a bit! Being a little aggravating, so I am going to see if I can get a pair of needle nose pliers on it and pull it out! It's small and sharp, like a thorn or something sticking out! Damn thing!

Michael

Michael

Dont forget the three shots of alcohol for the courage and pain

Doc M,
You been butchered or what?
Get back to that dentist and give him a second chance at it before you go mucking around with nonsterile shop tools inside your jaw.
Then maybe some antibiotics washed down with Gray Goose instead of narcotics?
Dr. Buffalo should talk you through the procedure if you insist on self abuse.

Damn. Well no joy! I need some more hands for my surgery project! One for the pliers, one for the light, one to hold my tongue off to the side and another one for the grey goose! Can't get to it proper. Gonna get my wife to see if she can get to it and wiggle it out with some tweezers or something! If I can't do anything with it this afternoon I'll go back to the dentist in the morning and get him to snatch it out! Just aggravating is all! Course I will have to wash things down with some Goose, medicine purposes you know! Gotta get it good and sterile! When I get this done I will tell you about an old friend out in Utah, Val Robb, and watching him do the same exact thing on one of his dogs! Hell of a good story!

Michael

Grey Goose !!
Now that's your problem right there.
Now if you were a little closer I'd bring you over some 32 year old (still in the barrel) thats 78% corn and 22% rye that will absolutely get rid of your problems. ANY problems...lol
It's only 152 proof.

It's probably the only thing I know how to do really well.
Now days its just a hobby.

John

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Would you take a kidney or left testicle as payment for this rifle? Cause I WANT IT!!!

Well I talked my wife into giving me a hand with the bone in my gum! Damn thing is still attached, it is not loose like I thought, grabbed hold of it with some good tweezers she did, pulled, yanked, screamed a bit, but did not give up! So I am calling my dentist buddy this morning and let him take a look at it, tomorrow probably. Ahhh! No problems! Just a bit hateful is all!

Brando

Oh if you want a 458 B&M it's not that expensive. No need to start selling off body parts! We can get you one of these no issues at all!

Michael

Who has the reamers for these calibers and who is making your barrels?

I want lots of rifles...Well just about any rifle I see that has some form of unique feature. Just about any rifle that has a new caliber or caliber that someone has developed I like. Especially since its a big bore...There is just something about being able to shoot 500 grain projectiles at 2000+fps that makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Brando

SSK Industries. Call Brian at 740-264-0176, he can sort everything out for you. You will need a Winchester M70 WSM rifle. I have all the dies, the brass, the load data on hand here. If you don't have a rifle I can help you find one and or I also have spare rifles here too.

Michael

I dont need another project yet...This 500AR im building has had so many stop and go's its becoming almost too much.

Maybe I could talk my step father out of his Winchester M70 chambered in the 300WM...

Brando

For any of the B&M cartridges--50-458-416-9.3 you need a WSM rifle. Throw the barrel in the trash, need that action! 300 WM won't do. 300-270-7mm WSM is the ticket!

Make 458 Lotts out of the 300 WM.

Michael

Once again the B&Ms are going to the field! Since 2006 I have carried nothing but a B&M cartridge and rifle to the field, most of the time being a .500 of sorts, since I had the most work to do with those. Even some of those have not been out to the field yet by me. Mostly the 50 B&M, 458 B&M, 500 MDM, and the 416 B&M a couple of times. I leave next Saturday the 10th for Cambridge Bay Canada for two muskox. I am down to choosing one of these two rifles to take. It has been the 18 inch gun from the beginning, but I recently learned Canada has an 18 inch barrel law, this gun is just barely 18 inches and I have some concerns about customs! Thus the 20 inch gun even coming into the picture. Waiting on confirmation on the 18 inch gun just in case and will most likely be taking it, because of the weight and the length, it handles like a dream and light as can be! Both have Ultimate stocks for the frozen country!




Both rifles are shooting this load as good as I can do anyway. Probably do a lot better than I can shoot them.





Michael

Michael,

That is a nice looking cartridge…the 330gr HPs are great too! Groups are nothing to kick sand at either.

It would be smart of Winchester to take a close look at your B&M cartridges to enhance the use of their Short Action rifles though they’d likely tag them with WSM instead.

Oh and yes…you’re looking quite “blond” today, nice picture!

Jim

You know I saw a quote one time from 465 HH, he says 416 is neither fish nor fowl. Too small to be a big bore, too big to be a medium. Normally I start thinking of big bore starting at .400 regardless and up. 338-400 mediums. Just the way I classify. I have done some work with 416 and shot 1 buffalo with 416 with good results. Great results on everything from impala to eland. But I don't have much experience with 416 beyond that. I would always option for 458 + on any bigger missions. Well, nothing has changed, I would still opt for bigger bore if my mission is buffalo, hippo, or elephant. I have to concur "somewhat" with 465, even though I would have confidence if hunting with a 416 to use it on the bigger stuff if needed.

The 416 B&M is a good little cartridge no doubt. And the 4 B&Ms based for the WSM action rifles give meaning and use for a WSM rifle!!! When the first WSM hit the market I converted one to 338 WSM. Still shooting that one today, and built another a couple years ago. I never had much use for anything under 338 caliber. Certainly no use for 270-300-7mm WSM. But the action is ready made for the B&M series, with the first being the 50, and has well proven itself in the field since 2006. Yes, I think Winchester would be well served with a totally new and different approach to Big Bore rifles, and I have to think they would be a great success, but of course I am the proud parent of the series, so what would one expect.

Anyway, I dearly love the little 18 inch gun in 416 B&M. In it's configuration it is capable of 400 gr bullets at 2300 fps, not too far from the big boys of 416, and a hell of a lot smaller and shorter. But it really is designed around 350 gr bullets which it runs at 2400-2450 fps depending on the bullet. 300 gr Barnes at over 2600 fps in the 18 inch tube. Not too bad, and all that is under max pressures for the cartridge.

This 330 Brass HP does 2485 in the 18 inch gun and 2545 in the 20 inch guns. The 20 inch gun is 1/2 lb more weight in it's current state. More than enough for any project I can think of on thin skinned critters or even up to buffalo. Especially when we consider the excellent penetration that these get once those petals are shed! As you know I have tremendous interest in these bullets and how they will work on game. This may or may not be a good test for it, it is going to be cold, not sure how muskox react when hit since these are my first, and I doubt I will do a lot of bullet digging in that sort of weather??

As for shooting, with even half decent bullets every B&M has shot just like what you see above, and all of them will shoot better than I can shoot them. You see once and a great while I will get them all in a hole at 50 yds without one of them slipping slightly low or slightly left or right to enlarge the group. Rest assured that is Michael, not the bullet or the rifle!!!!!!


Blond?? OK I am a little slow??

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
You know I saw a quote one time from 465 HH, he says 416 is neither fish nor fowl. Too small to be a big bore, too big to be a medium. Normally I start thinking of big bore starting at .400 regardless and up. 338-400 mediums. Just the way I classify.

Historically the .416s fell into the Large Medium category, large enough diameter to be used on the largest DG animals but still small enough bullet diameter to ballistically reach out to large plains game at a distance. At least I think it went something along those lines without pulling one of the old books out to check.

I think the classifications used at the turn of the 20th century are much more accurate than those used today; Mediums were .330” to <.400”, the Heavy Mediums were .400” to < .458”, and Big Bores were .458” to < .512”.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Blond?? OK I am a little slow??

Michael

Complain for days on end that no has commented on your cartridge avatar and now you don’t pick up that I noticed that you’re now using “blondie” as your avatar.