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We will all be waiting!
Max


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Political correctness is nothing but liberal enforced censorship
 
Posts: 3490 | Location: Colorado Springs, CO | Registered: 04 April 2003Reply With Quote
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Have not had time to hook up that turkish stock on a rifle yet, but will ASAP.

What I have been doing today is hooking up pressure traces on the 500 MDM and the 458 B&M. Playing with that big 550 BBW#13 Solid, so far managing 2265 fps with the 550 and under pressure. Just playing is all, I probably won't ever really use it, the 500s are more than enough. I just wanted to see where I could take a 550 in the little gun.

More import is trying out RamShot X-Terminator in the 458 B&M. Very nearly equals top loads and under pressure with 71 grs of X-Terminator with the 450 BBW#13 Solid, at 2225 fps in 20 inches. That is 6 grs less than AA 2520 for near the same end results. Pushing 74 gr with the 420 NonCon at 2325 fps. Both these will be tested in the 18 inch guns to check loss of velocity. Now ya'll know I don't mind compression at all, and the AA2520 is really mashed in tight, heavy compression at 77-78 grs. But it is of no consequence, never an issue in the field and this load has been in some really nasty heat in Australia, and Zimbabwe, and never a problem. But some folks don't like compression, and this is less for sure, for near the same end results, so that is good. Now we have some really top end loads, ready to go to Africa for the heavies with 3 different powders of your choice, X-Terminator, TAC, and AA2520. I will over time be taking the TAC and X-Terminator to 416 B&M, which will do very well with these I am sure, and of more priority starting sometime end of next week, the 475 B&M as well.

It's a never ending process looking for improvements, different powders being a very important part of that. Next I want to look at RL 17 in the B&Ms. That is one I have not investigated yet, but shows up pretty decent, looks like it might be interesting.

Michael


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The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
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I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Is that x-terminator the new powder Carl referred you to? Sounds very appropriate in the 20" .458B&M due to arrive shortly from SSK. Did you test it with the 480gr BBW#13? We still have some of those and I wonder what they'll do from the new rifles?

P.S. PM me if you find anything in the back room to tempt me, heh-heh.


Mike
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Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Mike

No, X-Terminator is one I checked out after getting interested in TAC. IMR 8208 is what Carl was using, and I have a # of that to work with, but I have not learned exactly where IMR 8208 falls in with burning rates, and where it might apply just yet.

No time for the 480 today, but I will get to it as well, I like that particular bullet, and we can run it all over 2200 fps in 20 inches.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Michael
Have you heard of SSK building one of your B&M cartridges on a Kimber 8400 Montana. I have one that needs a barrel change. Craig
 
Posts: 423 | Location: Lk. St.Clair | Registered: 11 February 2011Reply With Quote
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Hi Craig

Kimber 8400 Montana. Control feed, WSM action??? I don't know a lot about the Kimber, but if it's WSM action, then it should work fine. Make sure the length of the magazine is similar to the M70s, should be fine. Call Brian at SSK and speak with him, he will sort it out for you.


Mike

Was in the back room lab this morning, I really don't have anything that will work for you on the extra stock. I sent that laminated up to Brian right???? That is going to work good for now, at least until you decide to bite the Accurate Innovations bullet! HEH HEH....



All, hoping to have the 2cd 475 in this week, hooking up strain gages and shooting by the end of the week. Received Andrew's new 500 MDM this week, stainless 20 inch gun. Waiting on the English AI stock and it's good to go. I will be shooting it in, and checking out very seriously before it leaves on it's mission to Africa. I am going to put it in one of my stocks and start shooting it this week.

Powders! Still checking out and doing some investigating. I think I will order a few lbs this week and do some more experimenting.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I'll be good to go with the laminate you sent to Brian as he can build the LOP to fit me.

I will be very interested in what you find once you have some time to test the IMR 8208 with the .458 bullets.

Carl intended to meet with Brian over the past few days, so hopefully they will have worked out the synthetic stock fit for the SSK barrel contour on the our B&M rifles.

We really need to extend your "back room" -heh-heh! Big Grin


Mike
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Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Mike

Have brass, and dies all ready to send out, need to put a few more things together and will get those sent out, at least by Tuesday I think.

With New Raptors arriving, having to make a big run tomorrow for test medium, the new 475 to start on, a few rifles to get ready to go out, it's going to be very very busy around here for the next few weeks I think.

If I do much more extending around here I will run out of dirt to extend upon! HEH>........

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I simply must tell you guys about a great learning lesson I received this weekend. And from none other than our very own Lionhunter right above these last two posts!

First off, you guys know I am pretty hard headed sometimes about some things! Well, nothing changes with that, too much anyway, I will always be a little hard headed and set in me ways! But I am rather proud of myself that I can still learn some valuable lessons from time to time.

We have all heard the old saying about do not snap over the cartridge rim on a control feed gun! I have heard it all my life, so I just took it as the Law, not to be tested. This has been my position forever on that. Don't do it! Don't throw a cartridge in, and use the CF as a push feed. Don't load a 4th round over the top of the 3 in the magazine. You will snap your extractor, or loosen it!

Mike said he was going to use his new 458 B&M as a 4 shooter, Winchester says in the book you can do it, Mike said he was going to do it and wanted Brian to test for it. I said don't do that Mike! Blah Blah Blah. Well, fortunately Mike decided not to give in to me, and pushed the issue a little further! Saturday morning, I decided to try it in 3 of my 458 B&Ms I have here. I did, and it was just not an issue at all to do so, and was not much of a snap. I had three down, placed the 4th one on top, little forward, held down the three so the bolt would not pick them up, closed the bolt and the extractor slipped over without much fuss. Then I had concerns, as sometimes 3 down is a little tight in the box and that this might cause some feeding or retaining issues as well. Nope, did not, I snatched the 4th out over the top of the first round up, slammed forward and zero issues! Continued to empty the rifles, just no problems at all. 2 more 458 B&Ms, same story, no issues, no problems, and I pretty much now consider them 4 shooters!

After some consulting with my Genius pal, Sam, he said he had done that all his life, never sprang an extractor, never broke one, never a problem at all! Crap, Sam doing it too, well I can do it as well!

Now While I am on board with this, and have changed my mind completely on it, I am still going to do what I can to BREAK one if possible. On my test rifle--Not my field gun! HEH..... So when I test the 458 B&M I use for all PTs, and Terminals, I am loading every round and snapping over the extractor to see if I can cause an issue! And, I will only do this on my field rifles on a need to basis until I am 110% sure of it, I am at 90-95% ok with it now, and on board, but I still want to see! HEH HEH..... Yeah, it's a little hard not to be, hard headed!

Something else that Sam and I worked on when I returned from Africa in July. Talking about magazines being very tight with 3 down, the 500 MDM and the 50 B&M can be very tight, to the problem of closing the bolt with three down in the magazine. My 500 MDM was this way that I used in Africa, and I never bothered to sort it out before leaving. Lazy, Stupid, I don't know, but I didn't sort it out. I keep rifle with 2 down, bolt closed empty. Step out of the truck, feet on dirt, put the 3rd down, closed the bolt live. Leaving two down as backup, Michael normal procedure. Told Sam, being the Genius he is, we found a washer that fit under the front bolt on the bottom metal, tightened it down, and MAGIC, gun then closed EASY and SLICK with three down! You believe that? How easy! Sam is a Genius I tell you! Nothing to it, so simple it blew my mind, took just a few seconds to sort out! We talked about that this Saturday as well, I found myself at Lowes this weekend, went to the washer dept, picked up rubber, nylon, steel, zinc, and entire assortment of washers for this little experiment. My maple 50 B&M is very difficult to close on 3 down! Not anymore! A little washer in just the right thickness, completely sorted out, zero issue now, easy close. No more problems! Sometimes it just don't take much to sort out a problem that seems a lot worse than it is! Amazing! Always learning something, even being hard headed!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Micheal

I've been following your, and everybody else's, work with terminals and penetration for a while now and it's awesome! I'm still working my way through the 200ish page thread!!

I've been doing the three down and snap over +1 in my Ruger 77s for several years now. No issues with those rifles either. I like having the extra cartridge on board just in case its needed.

Thanks for all the quality work and information updates.

Tim


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Posts: 89 | Location: MT | Registered: 30 April 2010Reply With Quote
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Tim (Big Foot) HEH... Good one.

Hi, Welcome, I am happy to hear from you, and glad you are not lurking around and joined in.

You know I live sometimes in the Dark Ages, on some things! I always talk about "Out Of The Box", well that must apply to myself as well! It was refreshing to "discover" that I could do that, I was pretty pleased in the end after listening to Lionhunter, and then doing it, no issues, and then consulting Sam also, hell I was behind the times! HEH........ I was excited! Ask Mike, he got several fast fire emails very early Saturday morning from my side! LOL..........

No thanks needed, my pleasure to share anything with you guys! Hell we are all learning a lot, I am, and our little group down here is just amazing!

Thanks just the same!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Michael,
I have done the washer trick on CZ 550 Magnums that will almost get 4 down in the box with Rigby-sized cases. Yes gets 4 down.
Washer goes between the bottom metal and the stock, on the action screw. Sort of a short pillar-spacer.
Could be done also by making the bedding pillars stick out just a little more on the bottom of the stock.
It works,but does make the alignment of the floor plate with box imperfect, a floating gap on front end, and not tight and square,
if using only one washer on front.
So better alignment with a washer front and rear, then you have a squared up gap on both ends.
Might not be a problem at all.
Make a new sheetmetal box that is greater in depth (only 1/8" needed?) and grind it to fit perfectly with proper length pillars would be best.

The only actions that you should not pushfeed and snap over extractor onto rim are true Mauser extractors that are not modified.
That includes CZ.
Mauser and CZ require pinching the extractor midship to force a snapover and that may be fine with a good spring steel extractor,
but will booger up a poor quality extractor.

Winchester and Ruger actions have always been meant to do this snap-over pushfeed.
Dakota too.

With the CZ, I decided against the washer trick, and discovered that switching from ribbed boxes to smooth-sided interior boxes gave more room on the big cartridges for four down.
Then there is the pocket plate and drop floor plate ...
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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RIP

Yes, small spacer gives just enough room to make it work. I have more of an issue with the .500s, 50 B&M and 500 MDM, .500 up front, makes for very tight on some. Grind some of the bottom legs off the bottom of the follower, most of the time does it. But that little washer really makes the difference. I put one front, one rear on the maple 50, and it made the difference I needed. When Sam was here we scrounged around the compound, found one for the front of the 500 MDM, and that solved that issue immediately, and easy. I am not much of a mechanic when it comes to these things!

Seems an old dog can learn a new trick. I now have 4 shooters! Amazing. Yes, I see all the work you were doing on the other rifles, good stuff.

Thanks a bunch!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I have been doing some fire forming, some pressure work with that 500 MDM Horneber brass. Story is, it's still a little soft. I thought maybe I had been wrong, loaded New UnFired, up to 61000 PSI, and zero issues. Took the same cases, after fire formed, took them to around 52000-53000 PSI and they started getting a little sticky. So new and unfired they can take the pressure. After that, it's a no go. Can run 500s to 2250 fps is about all before they start to get sticky.

I did have some communications with Dieter over the weekend! I told him of the issue, of course not much can be done about it. However he thinks he can solve any problems on some upcoming brass and I am contracting with Dieter for new 9.3 B&M and 475 B&M brass that will hold 65000 PSI, we hope! I am sending exact samples of cut and trimmed RUM brass for Dieter to go by, same thickness, or thicker in the case above the extractor.

Also as soon as Pete gets some more basic brass I will have him back on some B&M head stamped brass as well. The 50,458, and 416 B&M brass that Quality did with the Hornady basic is good to go, zero issues with it, dandy brass, handles 65000 PSI easy, and more. No sticky, no issues no nothing, just has run out of basic.

According to Dieter we will have 9.3 and 475 run in January 2012, hopefully delivery in February. ????? We have high hopes anyway!

458 B&M will be the next priority, Mike and Partner Carl nearly wiped me out of 458 B&M brass! LOL........

I must share something I learned Saturday. Since the inception of the 500 MDM I noticed some strange things with some powders. The 500 MDM has never liked H-335. Loads that were well under max pressures showed high pressures on the cases, primers and other indications. But according to barrel strain, not. I also noticed some minor things with other powders as well. Saturday I had made up a series of lower pressure loads to fire form the Horneber brass with, keeping the 500s at or around 2200 fps. RL 15, IMR 4064, H-322, a couple of others, and TAC. TAC is a ball type powder, much like AA 2520 and H-335. Well the TAC gave a low velocity of 2140 fps, and pressure reading of 47000 PSI---BUT the cases were sticky coming out, primers flattened like 75000 PSI, and all case indications of very high pressure, but not! I know there were no anomalies with the Pressure Trace, I would have picked that up. Strange things sometimes this loading stuff! Now if I did not have a chrono, along with the Pressure Trace, only doing case study for pressure, I would have said I had topped well into 75000 PSI or more! Some powders, some cases, something???? Just FYI, an observation is all, nothing to worry about, there are plenty of powders that work very well in the 500 MDM, TAC and H-335 is just not good in this case.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Michael458-

Glad I could contribute in some small way to your knowledge base. You will have now increased your ammunition capacity by 33%, which is a not insignificant gain and potentially gives you a great advantage when hunting DG. Just ask Carl. Wink


Mike
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Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Lionhunter

Hey Pal! Man, I had to give credit where credit is due! You contributed in a big way. You have no idea how hard headed I can be! Thanks! For sure I like the increased capacity!

You know I never stop shooting! Now instead of shooting a buffalo only 3 times before having to load, I can shoot'em 4 times, reload 3 quickly, and shoot'em 3 more times, especially if I start close enough! YIPPIE YIPPIE!!!!!!!!!!!! That's now at least 7 rounds! Who wants to carry all that ammo home anyway, just added weight! LOL..........

Good Job Mike! Thanks!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Mike,
when you were testing my .500 did it have any issues holding 3 down in the mag ?

Will this same washer treatement be required ?, if so do you place a washer under each holding bolt ?, steel, zinc etc what type of washer is best.

R.I.P,
I noticed your comments above re loading over the extractor.
You note that this should not be done on any true Mauser type action including the CZ.
I have been snapping the bolt over hand fed cartridges in both my C.Z's for a while now with no issues (yet). I was led to believe that the CZ's were bevelled on the forward edge to allow this to occur.
Is this B.S ? Should the CZ not be snapped over a loaded round ?

Thanks in advance,
Paul.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Australia | Registered: 30 June 2011Reply With Quote
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Paul,

Sent you a PM.

About the washer you want to put it under the front between the floor plate and stock at the front screw. A thin steel one is what you want. This will help give room for the third round.

Sam
 
Posts: 2828 | Location: NC | Registered: 08 July 2006Reply With Quote
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From page 11 of the online CZ 550 /555 Instruction Manual
"Note:Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine."


Mike
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Posts: 3577 | Location: Silicon Valley | Registered: 19 November 2008Reply With Quote
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Thank-you both Sam & Lionhunter (Mike).

Genuine and reliable feedback is much appreicated.

Paul.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Australia | Registered: 30 June 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Mike,
when you were testing my .500 did it have any issues holding 3 down in the mag ?
Paul.



Paul Truccolo!!!! Do you think for one minute that I would turn loose of a rifle that come out of here that was not 100%? Absolutely not! I worked your rifle over pretty heavy before it left here.
Where is your Mind?

Now I did not try 3 down and one up the spout, but I have all ideas that will be fine.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
From page 11 of the online CZ 550 /555 Instruction Manual
"Note:Loading is also possible for single cartridges by directly inserting into the chamber without the use of a magazine."


There was no such instruction in the manual years ago.
I have to "pinch" my CZ extractors like a true Mauser to get them to push-feed.
If they are beveling-to-push-feed the formerly true Mauser extractors now, then I stand corrected.

At least the CZ retains the controlled extraction feature of the Mauser, whereby the extractor is pulled in tighter to the bolt body as the bolt is pulled rearward.
That involves a different bevel.

BTW, when I posted about using the washer between the floorplate and stock on the front action screw of CZ rifles, years ago,
I got jeers of derision from the bigbore gurus here. hilbily
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
BTW, when I posted about using the washer between the floorplate and stock on the front action screw of CZ rifles, years ago, I got jeers of derision from the bigbore gurus here.



I think it possible that the big bore gurus of then, just might not have been the great gurus they thought they were?

There is no possible issues with that, not that I can see. Only being a student "Guru" myself, Sam showed me that trick! I am in a continues learning mode. How much I can retain? Well, that's another matter altogether! I think not as much these days as in days past, hard drive might need a "De-Frag" I think! LOL...........

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by michael458:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:
Mike,
when you were testing my .500 did it have any issues holding 3 down in the mag ?
Paul.



Paul Truccolo!!!! Do you think for one minute that I would turn loose of a rifle that come out of here that was not 100%? Absolutely not! I worked your rifle over pretty heavy before it left here.
Where is your Mind?

Now I did not try 3 down and one up the spout, but I have all ideas that will be fine.

Michael


Mike, my sincerest apologies, the angst of waiting is eroding my sense of judgement. I should have known better !

So this means that both the 500 and 458 Lott have every chance of being realistic 3 + 1's.
Great firepower in those Herd Management shoot situations !

Paul.
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Australia | Registered: 30 June 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Mike, my sincerest apologies, the angst of waiting is eroding my sense of judgement. I should have known better !



Apology Noted, thank you! HEH........ Hey, it can't be much longer, Daryl has his rifles now! Have you checked lately? Time Frame???

Yes, I would look serious at 3 down +1 now! I was proud to learn this! Seems I am not so stupid I can still learn, even being hard headed! I have not tried the 500 MDM yet with this, but sure it should not be a problem. The only problem I can see with it in the B&Ms and maybe the 500 MDM, is how tight 3 down is, and pushing #4 forward without too much issue. If there is an issue, put the washer in, and he issue will go away! Easy Easy Easy!

Michael


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The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Hey Michael

I'll be off to the range later this week to fire off my first test loads with the .458 B&M SA, having fired off the fire-forming loads. I have the 295grn Non-Cons and the 300grn TSX loaded up. Testing both bullets with a couple of ADI powders.

When I receive the .475 B&M SS dies, I'll load up some ammo with the 320grn Non-Cons as well. At the moment I have a Burris FastFire II reflex sight on that rifle as I don't have the irons on yet. Rifle is light and handy and I'm looking forward to getting it into action.

As we head towards summer here in Aus and better weather, I'm hoping to do a lot of load development with the above two rifles as well as my .50 B&M and my own .416 Compact with the new Non-Cons you sent me. Of course, a lot of load development for me probably equates to about 3 days worth of shooting for you at The Compound!

I feel for Paul, as I know exactly what it's like to endure that wait. Hang in there Paul.

Regards

MFS
 
Posts: 22 | Location: Australia | Registered: 10 October 2011Reply With Quote
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Hi MFS

Excellent concerning the load data. First are you going to use the Pressure Trace??? Next, if you send me your load data, I will transfer it to the data base with the ADI powders, might be of use to some of the boys down there at some point.

Since I had to be out of town the end of last week I did not get the rest of your order. Will be doing that tomorrow. Soon as it all gets in, it's headed your way, with the 475 BMSS Dies.

Any load data you get on the B&Ms down there, I would like to add to the data base. At some point.

Tomorrow I am going to start some new load data on the 458 B&M as well. 3 Powders, RL 17, IMR 8208 and AA 2230. IMR 8208 and AA 2230 look very promising right now. I think RL 17 is going to not work so great, but I don't know until I try them. Right now, PT 1 is working perfect, PT II is not working at all. Will be sending PTII back this week to have it checked. PT 1 is going back to RSI as well, to have the strain gage plug replaced in the module. But not until I get some of this data first.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Oh, one more thing concerning B&Ms. I may have mentioned this, don't recall. But have been in contact with Dieter Horneber. Dieter is a good fellow, when you can contact him, and I have had some good contact this past week. Talked about the 500 MDM brass, it's short comings and I have now contracted with Dieter to do 9.3 B&M and 475 B&M brass. He is supposed to make it up to 65000 PSI standards. I think with the shorter B&Ms this won't be a problem, and some really good brass will come of it.

If so, and everything goes well, next on the list will be 458 B&M. Dieter says they are running RUM brass in January, which the 9.3 and 475 B&M will be run at that time. Also, have sent basic RUM B&M brass to Dieter for him to go by.

Just FYI is all.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Michael,
You might want to reinforce with Dieter that the CIP PMap for each caliber is 65000 psi so he'll fully understand the quality of brass required for the B&M and MDM cartridges. I believe that requires the brass to not fall at somewhere above 75000 psi.


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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Mike & Darryl,
yes still enduring the wait.

Bit of a "snafu" at the other end, I'm hoping they resolve it soon.

It's been a looong wait !
 
Posts: 531 | Location: Australia | Registered: 30 June 2011Reply With Quote
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Little update on a couple of things. I have been doing pressure traces and load data on the 475 B&M, and as I thought, it's a slightly different animal than either the 458 B&M or the 50 B&M, something, well in between I suppose is the best terminology! While it is doing well with the powders that have done well with the 458 B&M, I can't get enough powder in the case to get there! Well, I am equal now to the 458 B&M with a 450 BBW#13 Solid, both with 18 inch barrels hit a tad over 2200 fps with the 450s. I had hoped, with more diameter, I would be able to take the 475 up a small notch, but it's not happened yet. I can get 80 grs of AA 2520 in the case, but that is it, no more, start to get so much compression I get case bulge at 81 grs. Velocity, bit over 2200 with a 450. TAC, good powder, good load, 80 grs is it, still 2200. X Terminator reaches pressure above 75 grs. A really good powder that Carl, LionHunters hunting partner, turned me on to is IMR 8208, and it is doing a great job at 78 grs. It's a top powder, but still hanging at 2200 fps.

Today I moved to some powders that do really good in the 500 MDM and the 50 B&M as well, H-322 and RL 10X. Very promising right now, starting the 3rd generation load data on that, most likely tomorrow.

Another note, Tanz, if you look in, you see the scope you suggested, the Nikon Slug master whatever they call it. Got it in, put it on this morning, have been shooting it today. Seems pretty good so far! I will see if I can break it! HEH.......... It's on the 475 B&M which is very likely to get a hell of a lot of shooting in the next few weeks doing this load data and pressure traces. Soon as I get some decent loads, I will be doing terminals on all the new bullets from CEB and North Fork. Real Buffalo/Elephant/Hippo Bullets! Lion too! Bear, leopard, I hate leopards, I am not hunting leopards anymore ever. I hate them.







http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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Hey
I just want to find out where can you get affordable big bore double rifles? I am from South Africa and I dont seem to find any here. I am looking for a .470NE or a .500NE. Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 26 July 2010Reply With Quote
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Welcome!
You might do better posting in the double rifle forum.


577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375

*we band of 45-70ers* (Founder)
Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder)
 
Posts: 27590 | Location: Where tech companies are trying to control you and brainwash you. | Registered: 29 April 2005Reply With Quote
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Mike I'd be interested in your result on the NIKON Slugmaster scope as well. It promises a lot including LONG eye relief, for very little money.

Reg S&F
 
Posts: 463 | Location: Victoria, Australia | Registered: 26 September 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by ShortandFat:
Mike I'd be interested in your result on the NIKON Slugmaster scope as well. It promises a lot including LONG eye relief, for very little money.

Reg S&F


I second that. This could be the next glass on my 500ar.
 
Posts: 328 | Location: central TX | Registered: 06 December 2005Reply With Quote
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S&F and PTaylor

Well, I will put the Nikon thru hell, rest assured. Right now here is my take on it so far, it's very clear, I love the rear focus, easy, fast and convenient. It seems to have positive clicks, and does seem to move the POI properly.

While it is longer and slightly bigger, heavier, than the standard 1.5X5 Leupold VX3s I use, it is not cumbersome, or too big for my shorter B&M rifles. Eye relief is good as advertised. However it has a slightly different length and even after removing my QRW bases and turning them to the most advantageous positions, I am not able to take advantage of the full 5 inches of eye relief on the B&Ms. However, I still have a full field of view and plenty of eye relief so far.

Field of view at close range is not as good as the Leupolds, however it is very sufficient at low powers. I have a standard for this, I have a full mount lion at 10 yds just outside the lab, if I can see that entire lion at low power, I am happy. I can.

I have not got that many rounds through the scope yet so it will take some time to determine if it can handle what I put it through, which I suspect it most likely will survive the 475 B&M.

Many of you know that I am a full die hard Leupold 1.5X5 Fan. It's nearly the PERFECT, big bore scope. It's small, it's light, it's incredible field of view, clear, plenty of eye relief, more than what has been advertised or listed in recent times. While I have not had an issue with these scopes on the lesser B&Ms, 458 and down, I have had one hell of a bad time with them on the 50 B&M. Some issues on 50 B&M Super Short, and only one issue thus far on the 500 MDM. But that 50 B&M of mine, it will bust a leupold in a hurry! I had one bust after the 3rd round shot with it. Brand new Leupold, straight out of the box! In one 18 Month period, I sent 13 Leupold 1.5X5s back to Leupold for repair.

What happens is this, every time, the focus blows out on anything above 3X, it explodes in front of your eye it appears. Go below 3X and it clears up fine. You do not loose POI at all, just can't see anything above 3X. A couple of times after this, there was no movement, could not shift POI. I remember once while doing some serious test work, close range 25 under, on a 50 B&M I kept the scope on for many months, never removed it, just used it at 3X and down. POI never moved, never caused an issue. Finally I sent it back along with two others.

This does get discouraging after awhile, so I have been trying some other scopes as well, I purchased a Trijicon 1X4 and another NiKon African PH or whatever they call it. While I still have not put enough rounds through these to tell for sure, they seem to be doing just fine, although neither have been on a 50 B&M for any long duration, which I plan to sort out soon. I have actually grown to like the Nikon African, even though the eye piece is a little large, and the knobs a little big. Very clear, good focus like the Slug Nikon.

I thought the VX 2 1X4 was going to be the ticket, I had never busted one of those. The last 3 1.5X5s that I sent to leupold I requested they just replace those with 1X4 VX2s, install the heavy cross hairs. They did. I used two of those extensively and used them in Zimbabwe this past June on the 500 MDM and the 458 B&M. At some point the one on the 458 B&M got a black flake inside rolling around, and must have got stuck on something and disappeared? Meplat was in Zim with his 1X4 on his 50 B&M, and it did the same thing. Now, I have one of those with a tiny black spot in the middle, I intend to send it back with a little 2X fixed scope that the cross hairs got loose on. Oh well!

Leupold has been great to work with. Back in that Dark Period of sending 13 back in 18 months, they actually offered to replace ALL of them with their 1.6X6 VX7 scope--Big Dollars! I refused the offer, as they are large 30mm, heavy, and just much too big on a 50 B&M for my taste. After some convincing by Leupold I relented to at least try one. They sent, I did, it was TOO BIG, heavy, stood too tall being 30 mm and I just did not like it on my rifles. It did not fail in any way, I shot maybe 300-400 rounds through it, but sent it back thanking them, but no thanks. 30MM tubes while I am sure are much more robust and stronger, are just too big and bulky on a B&M rifle. I don't care for them, and don't even consider them. They get me too far away from my goals on easy to carry and handle.

So I will continue to search for something that will work on my .500s better. The Leupolds I have now will be fine on the 475s and down, for the most part I think and I will use them in that capacity.

Now some of you reading this need not become overly concerned unless you are literally shooting 1000s of rounds of Big Bore per year. I am sure that most scopes will handle normal shooting activities under most circumstances and probably never have an issue with most.

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I was beginning to think I was wrong about the 475 B&M. From the beginning I had speculated that I could achieve some more velocity from an 18 inch barrel in .474 than I was getting in an 18 inch barrel in .458, with the same bullet weights and designs, simply because of the diameter increase, spreading pressures over a larger base area, along with higher cubic area of barrel in which to disperse those pressures, and increase velocity.

I had tried all the powders that had done so good in the 458 B&M, AA 2520, TAC, IMR 8208, tried some new powders like X Terminator, and AA 2230. I even gave RL 15 and WW 748 a shot. TAC and IMR 8208 really looked good, but my velocity with the 450 BBW#13 Solid was only just equal to the same in 458, not exceeding. With both TAC, IMR 8208 & AA 2520 I actually just ran completely out of case capacity before running into any serious pressures. I was compressing so much that I actually bulged the cases and they would not chamber. Still only getting a touch over 2200 fps with the new .474 450 BBW#13 Solid. Which of course is MORE THAN ENOUGH to do any mission, but hell, I wanted more anyway! And more especially when I started with the 420 BBW#13 NonCon and the 425 North Forks!

Back to the drawing board, and I had to try some different powders! You would think that 458/474 were close enough to interchange, honest to god, when I clean and have to separate the cases I can't tell the difference in the 458 B&M and the 475 B&M, sometimes I actually can see it in the mouth, but sometimes I can't and have to actually measure!

I started working hard last week with H-322 and RL 10X. Both good with the 50 B&M and the 500 MDM, so maybe??????

Wow, it all come home to Daddy Yesterday! I met my expectations, and well under max pressures so it leaves some room for changing kegs or changing conditions!

475 B&M Winchester M70 18 Inch 1:10 Twist Rate

450 BBW#13 Solid

450#13 Solid 74/H-322 Fed 215 2259 2247 12 2253 62664 PSI

450#13 Solid 72/RL 10X Fed 215 2248 2222 25 2235 60870 PSI


420 BBW#13 NonCon

420 #13 HP 75/H-322 Fed 215 2317 2310 7 2313 59667 PSI

420 #13 HP 73/RL 10X Fed 215 2304 2298 6 2301 60462 PSI


425 North Fork CPS Expanding Cup Point

425 CPS 74/H-322 Fed 215 2296 2295 1 2296 60034 PSI

425 CPS 73/RL 10X Fed 215 2298 2290 8 2294 61196 PSI



425 North Fork FPS Flat Point Solid

425 FPS 74/H-322 Fed 215 2288 2284 4 2286 57641 PSI

425 FPS 73/RL 10X Fed 215 2296 2276 20 2286 60218 PSI


425 North Fork Premium Soft Point


425 NF Pre 77/H-322 Fed 215 2330 2320 10 2325 60503 PSI


I am very pleased with these numbers and this should work out very good for DG.

Now for terminals!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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I have a very High Grade Turkish here from Wes. Actually it is his stock he built for his 458 B&M, he sent it along when he sent the other Bastognes, I just have not had time to get it on a rifle and do any photos of it. It's an incredible Turkish I think. Wes also had some special things done to it as well, he likes Case Color and added a nice grip cap and sling studs that are case color.

I tried this Turkish on my 50 B&M and of course the B&Ms from 416 B&M to 50 B&M have the same barrel contour, so any stock built for those will fit all others. So if you have several B&Ms from 416 to 50, then you can easy interchange stocks back and forth.

I took my Bastogne off the 50 B&M and put the Turkish on.
















Let's see, I have two more bastogne blanks and a turkish that is the equal to or better than this one up there right now, hmmmmm, I wonder what I should fit those to???? Maybe one has to go on a 9.3 B&M for sure! Now for the other two?

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
when I clean and have to separate the cases I can't tell the difference in the 458 B&M and the 475 B&M, sometimes I actually can see it in the mouth, but sometimes I can't and have to actually measure!


Michael, just take a couple of Sharpie felt tip pens and mark your dases(on the base). One caliber black, another caliber red, etc. Then as long as they are inked, you will know which caliber thay are. This is great for "tired eyes".


Keith


IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!!
------------------------------------
We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club
 
Posts: 4553 | Location: Walker Co.,Texas | Registered: 05 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Keith

I will have to try that, you don't think the tumbler will clean off the Sharpie??? I have a batch that has been tumbling since Saturday, crap, I may have cleaned them down until there is nothing but the case heads remaining! Better check those this morning eh? Might not be a case left?

Good idea! Normally it's pretty easy when cleaning a batch to tell 50 B&M from 416 and so forth, but crap the 475 and 458 are so close, it's hard to see!

Michael


http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html

The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List!
Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom"

I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else.
 
Posts: 8426 | Location: South Carolina | Registered: 23 June 2008Reply With Quote
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