quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Michael,
Are you sure you didn't screw on some 24" barrels to get those velocities?
Yeah, Yeah, I know, 16.5" bbls for all your rifles.
Max

quote:

Wanted to try Ramshot Big Game, BL-C2, Ramshot TAC, and H-322. After the first generation it quickly became clear that Big Game and BL-C2 were not going to make it. But H-322 and TAC looked pretty good. 4 generations later, they both did very good, and might become standard, more test work will determine that. I was able to take the 450 BBW#13 Solid with 69/H-322 to 2222 fps at 63490 PSI and with 76/TAC to 2268 fps at 60521 fps! The 450 BBW#13 NonCon with 67/H-322 to 2204 fps at 62995 fps and with 73/TAC to 2216 fps at 59367 fps. Both these powders will work well, and with less compression than the wonderful AA2520 loads I have already. Ramshot TAC looks very very promising. I will be uploading new basic data to the B&M site either today, or tomorrow latest!

Max

Actually this 458 B&M test rifle is one of the first rifles and has a 20 inch barrel. With loads in the past, totally depending on powder, going from 20 inches down to 18 inches I have been losing between 15-20 fps per inch of barrel, or 30-40 fps, which I am willing to sacrifice for portability between 18 and 20. Some powders show little or no loss especially in .500 caliber and in .458, so I already have some test loads ready to test the 18 inch guns with H-322 and TAC. Monday I suspect.

Michael

Michael,
Good to go. I was surprised at the very good velocities that you did get. Guess that's why I want a .458 or .475.
Max

Max

Yep, the entire B&M project has been a surprise to me, and all have exceeded all expectations in the beginning. This is why I continued after the first 50 B&M prototype. Right now, I believe the 475 B&M to be the last one of the series, and at least the last viable one that is far enough removed from anything else to be useful. There is a 410 B&M reamer, but no one has built one yet, and therefore no dies. .423 is interesting no doubt, but how much different or better than 416 or 458? I see there might be a .423 on the horizon, but in reality it is just different and not a jump forward.

I think the 475 B&M is going to be one of the best, and with the new bullets from North Fork and CEB, it is going to be very good! We are almost close with having it finalized now, I think by next week I will be shooting one. No pressure traces yet however, I am waiting on the stainless gun to be finished before attaching a strain gage. And as far as I know right now, still no barrels for that? So we are way behind schedule on the 475 B&M. But it won't take long to catch up once we get the barrels in.

Michael

I got a little range time in yesterday and set up to do more 458 B&M tests with the 18 inch gun and some more pressures with the 20 inch gun, H-322 and TAC.

450 BBW#13 Solid 69/H-322 63490 PSI 20 Inch 2222 fps 18 inch 2191 fps a loss of 15 fps per inch.

450 BBW#13 Solid 76/TAC 60521 PSI 20 Inch 2268 fps 18 inch 2213 fps a loss of 27.5 fps per inch.

Did the same with it's matching 420 BBW#13 NonCon yesterday.

420 BBW#13 NonCon 70/H-322 58048 PSI 20 inches 2306 fps 18 inches 2260 fps a loss of 23 fps per inch.

420 BBW#13 NonCon 77/TAC 58048 PSI 20 Inches 2327 fps 18 inches 2261 fps loss of 33 fps per inch, which is actually getting to be a lot for a big bore, but as we can see different powders burn different!

420 BBW#13 NonCon 78/TAC 59532 PSI 20 inches 2358 fps 18 inches 2284 fps loss of 37 fps per inch. Still way under pressure.

FYI if you recall the 420 BBW#13 NonCon is the bullet I used on 3 cow buffalo, blew a big 2 inch hole through ones heart, and drove completely through the buffalo stomach, found behind the stomach! Others were broadside and complete penetration.

AA 2520 looses about the same fps per inch as the TAC. But both AA2520 and TAC are working top velocity at the lowest pressures, so life is a bitch, and you choose the best of them! I ordered 8 lbs of TAC yesterday so I can test a bit more with it! LOL.......

Also ordered a few other powders I have not worked with too.

Just FYI is all.

M

Been busy around here this week, but have managed to get some shooting in. Have to leave in a few minutes, but will post a link to some Primer Test work I have been doing, located at the B&M website. It's interesting, and will go into it more detail maybe tomorrow. Still pondering on it actually. Not finished, but have some data there to reckon with.

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...tion-Of-Primers.html

Word came yesterday that UPS is riding around a 500 MDM with a Bastogne stock? Has not arrived as of yet, and yes, I am looking forward to seeing it.

Also, did some terminals today with the 475 B&M Super Short, and conventional bullets, will post that on terminals, but probably tomorrow before I can get to it.

Issues with the pressure trace today! I think my main module is acting up? I tried everything, every wire, two different guns, thought it might be a strain gage, or a wire, so had several different hook ups, and at the very end I started getting proper readings? ??? I don't know, so I went ahead and placed an order for the newest updated Pressure Trace system and new software! I actually dread the thought of trying to make it work proper? Maybe it won't be such a mission? Maybe it will actually "Plug and Play?" Most things don't work that easy, but I will keep my optimism high! If it was hooked to an Apple then it would be a piece of cake! Hooked to Windows--Who Knows?

All for now.

Michael

Michael your primer testing most certainly demonstrates that every cartridge/rifle combination is an animal unto itself and each can be tweaked to produce better results.

I also found this excerpt from the 458 B&M primer testing very interesting, “What is extremely strange is that the pressures using the formed brass are so much lower than normal fire formed brass, while velocity stayed the same.” Which I assume (yep I know where this can lead!) refers as follows “formed brass” = fully resized brass while “normal fire formed brass” = either neck sized or partially-FLR brass.

That primer test was eye opening.
In carts that are short on capacity like the 45-70 or super shorts this could make a big difference.

Thanks again to Doc M at MIB.
I will scratch my head a while yet over the die-formed "new" brass giving lower pressures for same velocity,
compared to the fully fire-formed brass with same loads.

A. The fire-formed brass has been work-hardened a bit before firing again,
and the internal volume change with pressure is less upon firing,
because it has already been fully formed before firing.

B. The new brass is softer, and it blows out to a greater internal volume change with firing, reaching the same max internal case volume as in case A.

How does this dynamic of brass yield and combustion chamber volume change over time affect the time-pressure curve in the chamber?
Curve with lower peak and more spread out over time?
More efficient combustion and even less like a detonation than a normal good load in previously fire-formed brass?

Am I confusing anyone else or just myself?
Hmmm ...

Old rule on primers?
Use the F-215 (Mag-LR)) for 70 grains or more of powder.
Use the F-210 (LR) for less than 70 grains of powder.
Simplistic, but something I learned from Saeed, IIRC.
After this it gets too complicated for me.

Will await more on this most interesting technical data.

[quote] If it was hooked to an Apple then it would be a piece of cake! Hooked to Windows--Who Knows?

OMG DocM..such sacriledge!!! If an Apple has been doing your computations, then all your test results will be called "doubtful".

Just like the speed of light having been exceeded.

quote:

B. The new brass is softer, and it blows out to a greater internal volume change with firing, reaching the same max internal case volume as in case A.

RIP,

Just a thought. Maybe not..maybe larger volume if the brass is thinner? Which could account for lower pressure..possibly...

quote:

Originally posted by Esskay:
[quote] If it was hooked to an Apple then it would be a piece of cake! Hooked to Windows--Who Knows?

OMG DocM..such sacriledge!!! If an Apple has been doing your computations, then all your test results will be called "doubtful".

Just like the speed of light having been exceeded.

Esskay, you are a trouble making B! HEH...... Yes, man, I tell you these days when it comes to computers and most electronics I have a piss poor attitude! I don't care how it works, why it works, I just want it to work, do what it is supposed to do, and do what I want it to do so that I can complete my mission! I find Apples are much easier for me to work with, give me what I want! Been working with the Apples since the early 90s! I run windows too, have to do so to run some of the shooting programs I use, but I find Apple a more reliable platform. I have to say, the one little windows laptop I do the shooting programs has lasted for many years now, since 2005 in fact. However, I never get online with it, I don't run anything but the pressure trace, and a couple of shooting programs on it, and NOTHING ELSE ever. So it has done well. I hope I can use it on the new Pressure Trace System that is on the way? If not, will have to make a plan I suppose! Gees, one thing, leads to another, but fingers crossed! I hate having to figure some of these things out, lost time on the range and lost time on mission!

Michael

Now, as for the "Primer Tests". Thus far, through 3 cartridges, 6 powders, 6 different bullets, 3 different calibers and 7-8 different primers, I see no clear cut road to one primer being superior to all others, across the board! I see with some cartridges, powders, primers, bullets and calibers where one or two primers stand out, but on the very next different set of parameters, another may do the same! No Good and Evil here. Just different.

I see in many cases where one may very well improve a particular LOAD by doing some experimenting with primers, but in many cases not via chronograph alone. The Pressure Trace really tells us a lot about what is going on, and a bit more sensitive than running velocity alone. I am very pleased with the system. Just mine is very old now, and may be starting to have issues--????.

As for the difference in pressures between formed brass in the size die and fire formed brass from that point on, there has always been a difference in that, mostly small, and 90% of the time, the formed brass causes HIGHER pressures than the fire formed brass, but not by a great deal, 5000 PSI would be a good bit, but if your fire formed pressures are max already, 5000 PSI will most likely put them over some, so drop that load by a grain or so of powder I say to be safe. Of course, 5000 PSI is not going to blow guns up by any stretch. In the case of the 450 BBW#13 NonCon, and the new formed brass, I see its running 15000 PSI less or there abouts. That amazed me, and had it been just a few loads, or not so damned consistent in each case, then I would question it seriously, but that is not the case! Not only that, but to maintain the same velocity? How is that possible? I really do not know? I had also run this same load testing H-322 only a couple of days before doing the primer tests. As for the 405 Remington tests with the same formed brass, I can't say, as I had never tested that particular load before with the pressure trace.

Yesterday I attempted to do some spot checks on this phenomena without success of course, I figured it had to be the strain gage on the 458 B&M as the problem, however when I hooked up the 475 B&M Super Short I was getting the same erratic readings. Finally I had some of the rounds just to shoot up and the last 10 or so started falling into place where they should be, and giving proper curves. So I am thinking now there is an issue in the module itself, thus going ahead, biting the bullet on the new Pressure Trace II. We will see!

Taking a look at the 9.3 B&M Primer Test below;



This data gives us some good indicators, but really could be investigated further. Time limitations being what they are, in each of these tests I fired 3 rounds per primer test for each different bullet, cartridge, powder. For the 9.3 B&M two bullets, two powders, that is 42 rounds. If something had been abnormal, or out of place, then I would have tested again, it was not. Do take note, that in many cases there is what I would call excessive extreme spread in the peak pressures. It is very common for many loads, good loads, to be 2500 PSI or so extreme spread, some loads much less. I can live with 2500 PSI extremes, much above that I start looking closer. I don't like 4000 or more at all. Now recall, this is only 3 rounds, things change, and if there was something that I liked about the particular load, I might investigate that a bit further to confirm data. Let's say for instance, a particular load gave a significant amount of pressure less than the normal load with a particular primer, but the extreme spread was high, and the velocity was close! One might want to investigate that a bit further to confirm this data, and it might be worth while doing so.

For me a big part of primer choice is "Reliability". I want the damned thing to work, when I need it to do so. I have by no means shot as many other variety of primers as I have Federal Primers. Back in the day of shooting a lot of handguns, 500-1000 rounds a week or more, I found Federal Primers extremely reliable. At that time with handguns I had little preference or even knowledge of such things, but I did understand that in some cases with other primers I had problems, and I did not have problems with Federal. So I began my prejudices then. When moving over to big bore rifles some many years ago, it was Federal 210s and 215s, and nothing else would do. I have been messing with what I consider Dangerous Game rifles and Cartridges for a long time now, like your everyday carry handgun for defense, nothing is more important than "Reliability". While you can tweak a load, a bullet, a rifle, there is shit to tweak with a Primer--It does, or it don't--End of Story! You have little control over it, other than proper storage. So I choose what in my opinion only to me is the most reliable, and that for me is the Federals. But that is an opinion, as I have hardly any experience until these tests with any other primers. What few Winchester primers I have used, in handguns for plinking loads, and current rifles, I have not had any issues, and they seem to be pretty consistent! I had issues in my handgun days with CCI, seemed to be pretty hard, so I have some prejudices there. Hell I did not even know MagTech or Wolf made primers? But both of these showed some good results in the tests! During the tests I have suffered no reliability issues with any of them. Consistency depending on bullet, powder and cartridge some did well on one, not well on the other, and that goes for all of them, including the Federals.

Conclusions of the Primer Test? Nothing earth shaking for sure. Biggest conclusion for me is that some gave near top velocity with less pressure, something worth looking at. Problem is, it's dependent completely on an individual and particular load, nothing one can say in general, or even rule of thumb. Each and every load would have to be investigated thoroughly to come up with the very best solutions, something I am not so inclined to do across the board, as for each cartridge I may have hundreds of loads for, and no time to do a study of each load, with 7-10 different primers! Some, maybe, if deemed important enough to do so.

In these tests, there were no "Bad Primers", some performed better with some loads, some worse, and on the next load they changed their positions in the top to bottom performance chain. No clear cut conclusions here! There were only a couple of loads that showed very ugly and excessive extreme spreads in velocity, so no real joy there either, as that pertained to only a particular load, and not overall.

Here is the 416 B&M test work



For some of you out there take note of the 400 BBW#13 and the velocity and pressures run with it in the 416 B&M. Not bad for a 20 inch gun. I run a Taylor for awhile, and when I got to the 2300 fps mark I started seeing some pressure, and that gun had a 22 inch barrel. I consider the B&Ms 65000 max PSI cartridges. There is room to work with this.

I will conduct more of these tests when my 50 B&M gets back from Accurate Innovations. It has a strain gage already attached. I promise you that straight cases work different than bottle necks, different burning characteristics and what have you, so I want to do this study as well, to add to it. Then later as time allows I might expand into other powders and loads per given cartridge, and I too might explore some of the issues we talked about such as investigating further some of the more positive aspects of lower pressures, and maintaining velocity, and even the opportunity to increase velocity because of the lower pressures some of the primers exhibited with some loads. We will see.

Michael

50 B&M with it's new Bastogne stock!!!












By Accurate Innovations

Report from the field on a 50 B&M Super Short! This is a fellow in Alaska, I really don't know him, but he is a friend of our pal John Hlaudy, a B&M devotee with 2 50 B&M Super Shorts, 458 B&M, 416 B&M, and he is the developer of the 375 B&M! He sent one of his 50 Super Shorts up to Alaska for his friend to work with. I think the chap in Alaska enjoys the 50 Super Short a lot, John may not ever get it back? The shot was 225 yards, I am not sure of the exact load or velocity, but it was the 385 Remington Core Loc.

I'm drooling :-).....
Michael these are working guns not safe queens

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
50 B&M with it's new Bastogne stock!!!












By Accurate Innovations

Michael,

That is a beautiful stock. How about taking that Gorilla tape off the barrel or is that holding the gun together? Please don't take a hammer to it either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam

That moose had it's goose cooked. Someone please tell him to buy some CEB #13's
He probably won't get his gun back.
That gun you just have to hold to believe. Its so light and handy and recoil is negligeable.
The big bore super shorts in a light rifle are so cool!

Boomy and Sam

Hell boys, these are working guns, that's the strain gage covered in duct tape so it don't get damaged! I gotta hook this one up to run pressures with it! HEH...... Then go shoot something!

Yes I am going to have to send John some #13 Noncons to load in those guns. By the way, John sent me a couple of dummy rounds, 375 B&M, with the BBW#13s loaded in them, he has them for the 375 B&M.

Boomy, you are so correct, no one really understands them until in the hand.

I can't say what I like the best of the super shorts, 50 475 or 458, I suppose I like the one that is in my hands at the time the best! As good as I can come up with, and with the bullet performance of the recent tests in the 475 Super Short, I like it a lot. But then, there is the 50 and the 458 too? Oh my!

M

I wish you would take that little 475 of yours to the Winchester plant with a couple of boxes of ammo.
Let the Big Wigs play with it for a day and I'll bet they see the light.
On the other hand they might think your a terrorist and arrest you. No stay home instead.

Cheers, John

John

I am not so sure there is anyone at the factory that would get it? Understand it and why and what it could do. The B&Ms, the bigger ones, that is a match made in heaven for Winchester and a new big bore program like one never heard of. But I doubt they would have an understanding of what that is about. I am not so sure many of the gun companies these days have a clue, or many not even shooters! Just company men, accountants.

M

Mike, that Bastogne 50 is gorgeous !

There'll be lots of satisfaction in up-ending some bovine heels with something as purty as that piece.

Personally, I'd prefer the metle-work in a deep satin blue or cerakote, but stainless sure is praticle.

I hope one of the left-over Bastognes ends up on a 500.

The cartrdige, platform, weight, configuration shows well your understanding of what is, and what is not, needed in the field.

Some/most of the major manufacturers could do well in sitting up and taking notice, but who cares if they don't.
I'll keep ordering my working guns from the M.I.B Minestry, S.S.K/A.I Institute and load them with N.F/C.E.B technology.

On an side note I've been waiting with bated breath to see what this 475 B&M will fully do.
(yes, yes, I know your busy but please put us out of our misery as soon as you can ).

Cheers,
Paul.

Paul

I am very happy with the 50 B&M and it's Bastogne, you know the 50 B&M started this entire B&M project, so we picked what we thought was the best of the 3 blanks and put that on one of my 50s!

Yes, the next one to come is going to be for the 500 MDM I think! Then the last of the 3 is for a new 475 B&M stainless, that I don't have yet, and that one you will see in August, as it will be one of the rifles we bring along. You will also see some Super Shorts too on this trip.

As for the big manufacturers, yes, I could care less what they do, I have mine, they can make out any way they can!

475 B&M. Yes, the only rifle I have here right now is already spoken for. No way I am going to hook up a strain gage and go to work on it! So I am just working up a load or two for it, waiting on the new rifle and waiting on barrels for it mostly. Then with a strain gage I can go to work seriously with it, take it right to the top! The spoken for rifle will probably leave here by the first of November. I would not allow it to leave until it's been gone over very good for feed and function. It's a DGR, one cannot take those lightly, they must be 100% good to go, or it won't leave here. So far the only tiny issue is 15 minutes of work on the left side of the magazine for retaining that second round down. Other than that, it's good to go, feeds the BBW#13 flawlessly, 1, 2 and 3 slick as can be, slings brass 20 ft when working it! Hammer down!

News on the 500 MDM and 458 Lott????

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Truccolo:


The cartrdige, platform, weight, configuration shows well your understanding of what is, and what is not, needed in the field.

Some/most of the major manufacturers could do well in sitting up and taking notice, but who cares if they don't.

Paul:

I think some of the major manufacturers have indeed been thinking along the same "short, light, and handy" lines as Michael and Jeff, especially Ruger and Hornady. Hence, the .375 and .416 Ruger as well as the 300 and .338 Ruger Compact Magnums. I have a .338 RCM with a 20 inch barrel and it is a really neat little package.

Dave Bush, your absolutely correct ofcourse and I stand corrected re Ruger compact Magnums.

I think my comments were more of a generalisation than anything really. Look at the success of the AHR company reaping a healthy business by up-grading rifles from a company that specifically markets DR rifles (CZ), that perhaps should have been originally done at the parent company.
(please ignore my rantings).

Mike, I'm really looking forward to seeing that 475 B&M in the field.
In your stable of cartridges it is perhaps the very best compromise for anyone wanting the maximum portability combined with striking energy in a caliber of standard nomenclature, for those perhaps concerned in travelling with a .50 (not that anyone should be).

Would I be stretching expecations to think it may nudge Lott performance ?

Regarding my own two, 500 & Lott, I'm sending Jason the signed paperwork back today and will await further news from him but they can't be too far away now.

Cheers,
Paul.

Good News! 474 caliber 1:10 twist barrels from PacNor will be at SSK Monday! That means new 475 B&M will be in the works next week!

New Pressure Trace in, have everything updated and installed, seems to be working, will find out in the morning.

Test work starting tomorrow. Pressures, terminals and load data.

Paul, as for comparison 475BM/458Lott, well can't match velocity weight for weight, but with these new bullets I think it will match hitting ability easy, or surpass the lott with common bullets. The bullet is the key!

M

The Bastogne B&Ms, and 1 MDM of course!









Thanks to Wes at Accurate Innovations, I think they did a fantastic job, very well pleased with all these.

The stock on the 458 B&M will be put on a new 475 B&M that should arrive next week.

Michael

Very nice Michael!

Michael you have got to stop costing me money. First I've had to build every B&M rifle and having to buy tons of new bullets, ok some of that might be my fault. Now you're got me wanting a pretty wood stock. Man those are beautiful guns.

Sam

They are lovely
I cant decide between them so I'll take all three
I'd be too afraid to ding them.
Put on the cheap plastic stock and lets go hunting !

Sam

HEH....... It's just "Dirty Paper" you can get more of that, they make it every day, just print the stuff out! Ain't everyday you run across a nice piece of wood! So you do the calculating!

I wish I could take better photos--the rifles actually look better than the photos, or the stocks I should say.

Thanks Jim, Thanks Boomy! I am very pleased with them all. But rest assured they will be going to the field exactly as they are! Dings and bangs done on a great adventure is no sin! It serves to remind you in later years of where you picked up that little ding, so I think it just adds character! Let's hope for plenty of "Character" added to these! LOL.......

Michael

Oh something I have been meaning to mention, a friend of mine here has a Winchester M70 50 B&M for sale. His rifle. He has a 50 Super Short, and since we are a little short on elephants, buffalo, and hippo here in the low country of SC, he has decided he would be better off with a 9.3 B&M and his 50 B&M Super Short, so he wants to sell the 50 B&M and build a 9.3. It's one of the early guns, laminated stock, hi polish blue, and he just got the stock back from having it hand checkered. It's listed on the B&M site right now under rifles available. If anyone is interested just let me know. I kept forgetting to put that on!

I have some other Accurate Innovations stocks that Wes sent down as well. A couple of months ago I was browsing around on the AI site, and saw they had some ready made stocks for sale. Looking around there was this really nice looking Myrtle stock that caught my eye. I love wood, and this one looked good to me. Price was really right too! Problem was that it was made for a Montana Action, not a Winchester. Now I don't know what differences there is between the two, hell I never even seen a Montana action that I recall or even paid attention to. I talked to Wes and he said that a Win M70 would not fit easy, but he would look at it in my 500 MDM. If he could bed it up, sort it out, he would try.

I had more or less forgot about it, until I opened up my boxes and there it was, actually fit to the 500 MDM. It looks pretty spiffy too! Not a perfect fit, but plenty good enough to work with, and I just love this stick of wood! So I have it also.

In addition Wes sent his stick of Super High Grade Turkish that he has for his 458 B&M, and it's super looking as well. At first I told him he was not going to get it back, I was just going to keep it! But after much begging and strife, I finally relented to send it back after I had a good look at it this week. On the condition that he hold a very high grade blank he has sitting around in turkish that I had to battle my buddy 450NE for! Looks like I am going to get that blank after all! In addition, two more pieces of bastogne, as good as the ones you see above. Hell, they are all good, and each one so different they all have character you know!

I will get some photos up of the other stocks this week too.

No, ain't cheap, but good wood is worth it I tell you!

Michael

Just when my .458B&M is only two weeks from completion and I find out from Brian that he cannot modify the Winchester synthetic stock to my 14.25" LOP, you go and post picks of these beautiful wood stocks.

Michael, you really know how to hurt a guy.

So whaddaya got in the back room that will fit me and my new B&M?

Mike

Excellent, except for our redneck camo stock! Dang! OK, no issues, send it back to me, I will trade you some brass and bullets for it. Or, just shorten your arms! HEH.....

These stocks look better than the photos!

I think we can dig around in the back room and find something??? Maybe?

Michael

LH,
Fastest and likely the cheapest way to lengthen you pull is to add a 1" slip-on pad. Then you can just remove it when you're bundled up for that winter hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
LH,
Fastest and likely the cheapest way to lengthen you pull is to add a 1" slip-on pad. Then you can just remove it when you're bundled up for that winter hunt.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I would strongly suggest nobody EVER use a slip-on pad on anything other than a synthetic stock. They will and have caused serious damage to wood stocks. Besides, I just don't like 'em and think they look like crap. But that's just MHO.

MICHAEL: I know you will dig around the back room for me and I wish you every good luck!

Thanks for all the help/advice you've given Carl and I; you are a generous friend, willing to freely share the information/knowledge you've accumulated at no small expense in both time and money, and I know everyone here appreciates it.

Lionhunter

No man, no thanks needed! It's my pleasure to assist any way I can, and I am the fortunate one to be associated with such fine gentlemen as both you and Carl! I can't wait to hear of you guys putting your 458 B&Ms to work! That is the pleasure I get, seeing that you are successful in your adventures!

Much work to do on the B&Ms in the coming weeks. Looking forward to the new stainless 475 coming next week, will immediately get started on some very serious load data, get that one up to speed! Pressure trace One is up and running, Pressure trace II, not yet, but think we know the cause of the issue, maybe? So sorting that mess out too. Also have some different powders to try in both 458 and 475 B&M and see if we can further enhance performance, and reduce pressures at the same time! So lot's of work continues, and probably always will!

Later

Michael

This is that stick of Mrytle that Wes had at AI, built for a Montana Action, I mentioned above. While it is not quite a perfect fit, the price was good enough for me to want to have this stick if nothing else to look at. However, it fits a 500 MDM good enough that it really is of no consequence to me. What do you guys think?











Michael

Michael,
I've always been a myrtle fan. Yours is an outstanding piece. Sit back with a single malt, a good cigar and just gaze at it.
While enjoying myrtle for some reason, have never been a maple fan. Dunno why.

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by capoward:
LH,
Fastest and likely the cheapest way to lengthen you pull is to add a 1" slip-on pad. Then you can just remove it when you're bundled up for that winter hunt.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I would strongly suggest nobody EVER use a slip-on pad on anything other than a synthetic stock. They will and have caused serious damage to wood stocks. Besides, I just don't like 'em and think they look like crap. But that's just MHO.

My response was directed towards your stated synthetic stock. I do however totally agree with your warning regarding slip-on pad usage with wood stocks.

Personally I live in warm to hot weather country, the vast majority of my shooting will be in a tee shirt or perhaps a very light jacket in the middle of winter, and I need a 14¼”-14½” LOP in warm/hot weather. So…
- Synthetic stocks… I have black slip-on pads for all of my synthetic stocks and leave them on most of the year. Black slip-on pad with black synthetic stock is hardly noticeable.
- Wood stocks… I have Pachmayr’s leather covered slip on pads with the Velcro closure (in couple of sizes) for use with short LOP wood stocks. The leather/Velcro pad is installed immediately before and removed immediately after I’m finished shooting…no damage to the stock.
Me, I’m concerned with scope cuts to my forehead…but will make every effort to not damage a nice wood stock.

quote:

Originally posted by prof242:
Michael,
I've always been a myrtle fan. Yours is an outstanding piece. Sit back with a single malt, a good cigar and just gaze at it.
While enjoying myrtle for some reason, have never been a maple fan. Dunno why.

I love myrtle as well. That first one I had on the 500 MDM turned too much for my liking. It got sorta dirty looking actually. Of course I was shooting hell out of it right from the time it got made into a stock, lot's of handling, absorbing oil I suppose and everything else. Then had it in Australia in the buffalo dust too! From that same stick it seems I had one done for one of the 416s. It was not shot much at all or handled, and it looks pretty good, it did not turn as much as the 500 stock. This stock has been cut for some time, so I think it's pretty much turned as dark as it will get. It is nice, and for the price I got it for I could not stand it.

Maple! I like my maple 50 B&M pretty good, but it's white no doubt! On the checkering it's getting dirty from my dirty ass gunsmoked hands! It gets shot a lot. I put some oil on it this afternoon, it shines up pretty good!

Wait till I show of that piece of turkish stick I have! Maybe this weekend I will put it on some rifles and do some photos!

Michael