ED: my e-mail to you was returned
possible overflow on youre end?????????
let me know
thx

Ed- Does the original Savage barrel have a double extractor cut? It looks like that in the picture. Why?-Rob

Don--I got first PM and sent reply..If
you have trouble, email me personally--
gunowner@journey.com

Rob--Yes their are two extractor cuts on
original setup,,The original extractor system had extractor on right and a spring loaded
lever on left to hold case against extractor.
On my setup I got rid of the lever on left and put a section of rim flange as an
extension of left lug, on left to hold
case against extractor.There is a section of
flange on the top as extension of top lug.
Works perfect even with gun sideways.So bolt
hold case like my Enfield.It to my way of
thinking makes for more reliable headspacing.Ed.

Ed- Got it. 1917 enfield bolt design. This was exactly the reason why I gave up on using a Mcmillan action. Can you show pics of this bolt mod up close?-Rob

Rob--Only pic I have is this one,and will have
son to get a closeup from side to show
the flanges.The flange I added is on
the right as your looking at bolt next
to the ejector slot..Ed.

Can't see it very well from the picture. Ed-How did you attach the rim flange to the bolt?-Rob

Rob--Redneck way--Bolthead in the water,
real small welding rod..Then minor
shaping with grinder. Hit it with
hammer and didn't break.Ed.

Ed- Yup, I got it. I had exactly the same concerns with using a mcmillan action. I was too chicken to weld on my bolt. I considered machining in a slot D&T ing it and making a Rim control flange.-Rob

Rob the big blt head being separate made it easy.Stuck the shank on the head that goes
into bolt,into a hole in steel plate;put plate and head in a flat pan with water.Two seconds
with welder and done.Never even heated water,
so I know heat treat on lugs weren't affected.
And I looked at lugs and lug seats after top 3
loads were fired and perfect seating, and no
denting..Boy if Icould get a thick action for
innerds she'd handle your loads.Savage
really made a great action for the bucks.Ed..

Ed- Yup, you did it the right way. Given the value of a savage action, I'd probably also take the risk. Not so on a $500 Mcmillan bolt. Anyway, tha rim control issue is a big oner on a bolt action and now I understand how you solved it. Well Done!-Rob

Rob-They love your creation and gun over on
THR,1400 views in 3 days, whole bunch of posts.
Someone asked if we could make 10GA FH.
I said no readily available easy to use brass to convert
that I know off.Now I know of a hard one, and that is the berdan primed 50 cal russian,
but to hard to get and way to hard to convert.....Savage could do itfor size with
heavy barrel.

Oh also I forgot, but I have scope rail that comes with gun if I want one on it,
but I like peep sight.In fact I have to change over to right hand,always liked left, and
my right eye works clear for peep sights, and
left is bad--tailgunner; doc says no more left
hand--Had lipoma took out from left armpit and
back of arm yesterday,says no cancer signs,
and was big as package of hamburger.Boy
am I stiff and sore.Ed.

Ed
Good to hear that it looks non-cancerous.
I can probably find a day here and there to come over and form cases if you need me to.

Thanks Bob--Good weather will be here soon
and I'll line up a bunch to do.Ed.

I recovered a Dixie 730 gr slug stopped by about 4 ft
of hardwood.It was a lump, but had 81% of original
weight.A good way to get all the energy into
a target.Ed.

Hay Robgunbuilder myself and a couple dealer freinds are coming out to the shot show. I would really like to look at your 12GA from hell it something could be arranged.

p dog--couldn't muster it right now-- Joints don't want to work, and sore all over.
Doctor every 3 days....But I plan on going
to Ernies big bore club shoot later over in
your state. And maybe have 700 also..Ed

Rob we have convert to the real big
bores-he wants 700NE--It's only 3.5 in long.
posts as msorenso-- he is
going to do one on a savage..
I picked him up a nice stock blank
tonight on ebay, black walnut, straight
close grain, real heavy and strong.

Do you think we can make Savage famous.
Also about Savage where can I get a
heavy longer bolt handle like I built up for
Enfield.It just changes with a big nut.
Pic is below to see what I mean.Ed,

Rob--I found Hirtenberger primers for bmg
at Pat's Reloading in Ohio.120 bucks for
500 delivered HazMat,shipping, and all,,
A 1000 for about 210 bucks.
For those who may not have seen this
experimenting with actions here is pic
of a reworked Martini Greener with a case
setting in it.Sometime need to get a thick
sided copy with change in pivot for breech,
to put case in.Ed.

Here is pic of 3 different slugs in
cases, and a case with original rim off
and threaded for 12ga rim pieces you see in
picture.Ed.

Y'all might be interested in THIS!!!

Rob,

Looks great. Have you had any time to shoot it more. Are you planning to put a break on it? I may have one of the breaks I made for the 600 OK left. You would need to bore out the ID but that's easy. On second thought you might need to open up the threads so you have enough wall left on the barrel again thats not too difficult to do. If you can use it let me know.

How are the rims I made holding up? As soon as I get some time I will make you some out of stainless but if you need some more in the mean time I do have them.

I need to finish scailing up the falling block drawings to finish the 12 ga hf I have started but I really like the looks of the Borchard you used. How do you like it? any comments good or bad?

Ed if only I didn't need to work each day I could have us a good strong bolt action with an .850 bolt and 4.5" (or longer) mag box in a few months. Too bad MRC won't do the .850 bolt.

Good to see you guys have been busy while I've been away. Keep it up.

John rims are doing good for me.
And cases are really great.3 dozen
firings on one case and no sizing needed.Let's
hope in future you can do a bolt action or
maybe build a thick wall reciever for
my Savage. I got quite a few guys
that want to make the mighty
12GA Fh and other stuff on that Savage.Ed.

A question for you wonderfully crazy guys. What are the SDs of a 750 and 1000 gr 12 Ga. bullets?

465H&H

465H&H

750gr -.201 Sd.....1000gr -.269 Sd,,Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
Here is pic of 3 different slugs in
cases, and a case with original rim off
and threaded for 12ga rim pieces you see in
picture.Ed.

Wow, a pumpkin ball loaded in brass. Too cool. How is the accuracy with that going down a rifled barrel since the bullet is rifled already?

gixxer--I haven't shot for group yet,
that needs good weather.The foster slug is a light load and I only used 5 of them
with compound to lap the barrel.And
at real lowspeed as being soft I didn't
want to lead the barrel.The flat nosed hard 730gr Dixie bullet in picture, .729 dia,
will be the most accurate.The hollow point
600gr in pic I have to test yet.It is little
undersize so will have to use wad.I expanded
foster slugs hollow base,with point of one of Martins 700
bullets to make it a tight fit.Ed.

Paper patch? that would be real old school.

I have a NEF Pardner Tracker II single barrel, which is a ten gauge barrel blank bored to 12 ga. rifled.

The barrel is 1.212 at the chamber, 1.072 at the muzzle, 24" long. Gun weighs 11.5 lbs and has proved deadly on deer.

I'm afraid the action would not stand up to your pressures, though.

I'd sure like to try a "reduced load" in it, though!

Y'all are ate up with it!

Don G--IFthat is good alloy steel barrel
it will handle 20-25k psi.I like the weight
and adding some in butt would be easy.
Can you post pic and how much are they..

We can get you a load using our brass set
up for it.730 gr hard slug or sabot load.
We'd use H50 BMG, AA8700, WC870, etc,cut load
back from our starting loads, use 1 or 2 wads
to take up air space.

Need one to set up loads, as I think this
is way a lot of guys are going do it,
from phone and emails the last month.
Hell I started with 305 cases with rims on
and only have 79 left, and I will keep
25 or so.Sold big bunch where they plan
on fireforming their own as a group,
setting up a bunch of guns.Ed.

I wrote NEF some time ago asking what the alloy was on my 20 ga Ultra Slug Hunter. I forget exactly what it is but as i recall, it is more commonly used on muzzle loaders. As thick as those barrels are, I would still guess they are as strong as the action.

I bought a Lee Classic press but got really mad trying to get the adapter out so I could use my sizing die. I was getting about 1300 fps from a 900 grain paper patched lead bullet but might have finally broken the scope as I could not put it on paper at range during my last shoot.

Haven't shot the thing in some time, guess I should get it back out and finish my load development.

Glad to see things are going well for the 12GaFH

The 12 GaFH short will work in an Encore 12 Ga magnum barrel with some reaming.. Just cut a .50BMG case off at the shoulder and expand to .726. It will hold 200 gr of Rl-25 and a 750 gr slug. You will see about 2000fps with this load and the encore will take it. At least mine did. I shot it from a tire. looks like recoil is pretty severe though!-Rob

Rob--Did the case extract real easy?
Did you have to ream Encore chamber for
more length or more diameter in chamber
where the mouth of case is?

The way that kicks you might have to
vulcanize a piece of that tire to your
shoulder.You got to get pics of you
and the band of Bubbas firing it..Ed.

Rob--They sure gone crazy over your
wild idea, especially your gun, over on
the highroad--100 posts 4100 views.
Igot pic here of my bolt holding a case.
In pic the top lug is up and to camera
and lower left lug can be seen where I
added a ridge to hold cases.Ed.

Some have asked on other forums about
explaining our shotgun to game wardens
in shotgun hunting areas.Seeing as most
shotguns have guage and length marked on the
barrels, some suggested doing same for our
What do you guys here think of idea to stamp
barrels "12 GA FH 3 3/4", to fit in, so
shotgun hunters would be consistant.
We have 12ga in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2.
In MI shotgun hunting areas 12gauges with
slugs and sabots, no matter how powerful
are allowed now..Ed.

Ed,

Sorry, I've been working too much!

I will get some pics of the NEF Pardner Tracker II single barrel. It cost me $79 at WalMart ten years ago in a clearance sale. It is the only gun I have that is not wearing a Leupold scope. It has a $35 Simmons shotgun scope on it, bought at the same sale. The whole thing has never moved zero in the ten years I've had it. It usually gets 2-3 shots a year: one before Ohio's one week shotgun season, and one or two at deer. It's never missed a shot in ten years and 15 or so deer. Shoots cloverleafs at 50 yards, 1.5 inches at 100 yards using the old-style 3" magnum Remington Copper Solids (1-5/16 oz slug.)

The butt will hold about 2 lbs of lead in the original hole. This seems like a place where a mercury recoil reducer might be appropriate.

The gun is chambered for a 3" magnum 12 gauge, so I reckon I'd need a chamber reamer before I could use your brass.

I have not cast the chamber, so I do not know how the factory chamber is setup as to freebore, leade etc.

I understand you think the barrel would hold up, what about the action?

Thanks,

Don G--It should work if it is the one
with heavy barrel on the 10ga frame,
that has muzzle diameter of 1.070, as I looked
at one at gunshop tuesday.......
They are still called # II models I think.
It didn't look like alloy barrel, so
we would have to hold loads to 15-18,000.
Most models had muzzle diameter of about
.900 inch but there was this one that muzzle
was 1.070. I think action would hold
a 730gr slug at 1800 fps, and do it
at 15-18,000 psi using our case and would
do it as Rob says at 3 in length. Oh and they're $210 now.Ed

I didn't know if any of you noticed in my .775 Rigby thread but you can find several more types of 12 GA projectiles HERE.

They even sell a "Dangerous Game Slug!!!"

Woodsracer--That's good site.. I found
a real long shotcup at gunshop here
that holds 2 oz of
buckshot. Test it one of these days.use
cup so the shot wouldn't lead the rifling,
which should make wide pattern.On NEF etc,
if shooting slugs could take brass back to
three inches, but for big loads of shot,
2 to 3 oz, the full length is best as on
mine fill case 60% powder, put cup on powder,
fill with shot, shove 1/4" wad on top,
and fire. No sizing on bottom needed, size
top a little, reprime, load, fire.Cup
holds 2.5 oz of goose shot.Use surplus powder,
no bother with fast powders, wad pressures,
monkey business.If I ever had time for
bird hunting I'd get extra smooth bore
barrel. Change barrel in a minute.Ed

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:

Woodsracer--That's good site..
Ed

I'm glad that I could contribute!!!

Ed- Nice pics. i've been getting a whole lot of e-mail on the 12GaFH short. The encore just needs to be depth reamed. I think keeping it to 18 KPSI is a real good idea. I may take a er-shaw 12 ga barrel and weld on a custom encore lug and then crank it up.-Rob