The Accurate Reloading Forums
585 Gehringer/nyati 3"

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21 May 2001, 18:39
Karl
585 Gehringer/nyati 3"
woohoo!After 18 months and several wrong turns my 585 is about to be delivered.Mark White rang and said he has worked up some loads of which Geoff Mcdonald of woodleigh test fired himself with my rifle at one of the invitational shoots he holds.
So thanks to everyone I have been annoying with questions about 585's and bigbores in general since the old site in 1999!

I've named the cartridge after myself since it not an existing wildcat, however it is basically a 585 Nyati long version 3" so if anyone is interested in the load data for the 3" nyati it should suffice.

Anyway, back to work for me.

karl.

21 May 2001, 20:26
Mike375
Karl,

Has you know I had quite a few back problems sometime ago.

Pain was immense. As a result of this experience I can recommend Panadeine Forte for you before firing the new 585

As this is only on prescription I recommend seeing a doctor a day before your first range visit.

Mike

22 May 2001, 00:33
<Mitch>
Karl, welcome to the 585 club, please let us know how your load developement goes.
22 May 2001, 13:05
<R. A. Berry>
Karl,
I am anxious to hear any of your load data.
You should plan on submitting the data to post along with a picture of the first water buffalo you knock over with it. Saeed could probably find a page for you in the reloading section.

I have the action and stock for a .585, and 50 pieces of Bertram brass. I like your 3" concept. Ross Seyfried had both a 2.80" and a 3.00" version. What is the neck length and shoulder angle on your version?

Alas, I have a .470 Capstick in the works and too many other irons in the fire, but I will have a .585 someday. Keep us updated, please and thank you.

Also, what is the official name of the cartridge? As shown in the title of this thread? What happened to the ".585 Gehringer Express?" Is it now the ".585 GN3?"

------------------
Good huntin' and shootin',
Bwanawannabe, Daktari Ron

[This message has been edited by R. A. Berry (edited 05-22-2001).]

22 May 2001, 16:04
Karl
Mike, thanks for the suggestion.I steer clear of Army doctors. They would probably take a pretty dim veiw of me destroying my retinas this way(that was a crappy pun...sorry).

RAB,
Not sure what a formed case even looks like yet actually.But I will find out.

The name is just the 585 Gehringer.
The term 'express' and 'nitro' in bigbore rifles really meant something 100 years ago. For me though they epitomise old cordite charges at less than 2200fps.Very romantic but does not do a dinosaur rifle on steroids justice!

To borrow and modify a quote by a greater man 'The barrel of my rifle will never be polluted with a load under 10,000ftlbs'

karl.

[This message has been edited by Karl (edited 05-22-2001).]

23 May 2001, 01:11
Phantom Duck
Karl,

Your project sounds very interesting. Would be curious to know stats and dimensions on the cartridge, once you get it back. Some of us have a long action or two around and might like to follow your lead. How does it feel to be a trend setter?

------------------
"If you can keep your head about you when all others are loosing theirs and blaiming it on you..."

23 May 2001, 02:29
Nickudu
Good luck Karl! I hope you post a photo or two of your buffalo trophies.
23 May 2001, 04:08
500grains
This looks like a good place for an update of my 585 project.

A gunsmith in Utah is in the process of building a 585 Nyati for me. It uses a Win M70 classic stainless action that came off a 375 H&H. The smith built a 2 round single stack magazine for it, plus 1 in the chamber for 3 round capacity.

Right now, for testing, the rifle has a 28 inch 1.35 inch diameter straight cylinder barrel, no brake. The stock for testing is just a Winchester wood stock, looks like birch. The gun weighs 13.25 pounds in that configuration - not bad to heft and hold.

The smith fired 5 rounds through it for a safety check and said it kicks like a 10 gauge shotgun.

Next is to shorten the barrel to 26" including brake and build a stock with some mercury in the butt to balance it off better.

23 May 2001, 04:16
Mike375
500Grains,

Was the 1 inch barrel thread used.

Do you know what loads he used

Mike

24 May 2001, 04:14
500grains
Mike,

I have talked to him repeatedly about the 1" threads, but he did not want to drill out and re-thread the receiver.

The loads were 140.0 grains IMR 4350, F215 primers, 750 Woodleigh soft point, Bertram brass.

24 May 2001, 04:47
Mike375
500Grains,

I guess a load like that would be very low pressure and no problem.

To what velocity would you be prepared to load it with 750 grains in the Model 70 action?

Mike

24 May 2001, 07:19
500grains
Mike,

I would like to load 750 grains to 2200 fps, or maybe 2250 fps.

That would give me 100 fps advantage over the 577 NE, which was known as a stomper in its own right.

I am a little concerned that at high velocities, the bullets might not hold up, since they were designed to be shot at 2100 fps. Then there are the barrel threads...

I would also like to push a 900 grain Woodleigh soft point at 1950 fps or maybe 2000 fps.

What do you think?

24 May 2001, 08:55
<Mitch>
500 grains, Bolt head thrust is a very important consideration in 585 Caliber rifles. Even at low pressures these massive 585 cartridges generate the same or more bolt head thrust than even a 460 Wby. at full power. A 585 at full power has far more bolt head thrust than even a 460 wby. class cartridge. With the Winchester action you are using I would be VERY careful about how much pressure I was running in my rifle. To be on the safe side I would limit my velocitys with 750 gr. bullets to 577 Nitro levels or certainly not much more than that.
24 May 2001, 10:39
Karl
Phantom duck,Mitch,Nickudu,
Thanks and will do. I will get cracking at the range as soon as possible to see what it can do and assemble some data.The powders I use are an Australian brand but they may be marketed as something else over your way.

Mike, can we still get vihtavuori here at the moment?

Karl.


24 May 2001, 12:51
Mike375
500Grains and Karl

500Grains,

I think the 577 original was only 2050 f/s.

SSK (???) do the Ruger No 1 and I think that is a 1 inch thread but they may change it.

For whatever it is worth, back in the late 60s in Australia a fairly commong conversion to the Martini action was 219 Zipper Improved.

This also resulted in a situation not unlike the Nyati (or 500 J) on a Model 70. Actually it was worse because the chamber itself was thin. The idea was not load it too much above 222. Some more adventurous souls (myself included) went to full ballistics. Expanded chambers were the result, not blowups. By expanded chambers, I don't mean something that you could see. With the 585 Nyati, perhaps the Bertram brass itself (and recoil)will provide a safety valve against expanded chambers.

Karl,

What Custers will have is what they have left, which I think would be a fair bit.

Also, the chap in Canberra (Bruce Brown), don't have the number handy, will have a load of Dupont coming in a bout 3 weeks. A mate of mine has taken all the 7828.

What calibre do you want use the Vitavourri in, the 585 or 375.

There was also a place in Perth that was to bring a load of Reloader powders in but that has supposedly died out.

I don't think we will see a time when regular supplies of these powders will come again. Just too expensive as compared to ADI powders. It will be more a load every few years which is what Bruce Brown has done with Dupont.

Mike


25 May 2001, 22:28
Karl
Mike,
The 585, just for velocity tests. I had better jump in now to get some then.
Hopefully once this calibre has supplanted the 375 as the all round cartridge I will have hornady loaded rounds available with heavy magnum powder.
Seriously I wondered what happened to the promised reloader stuff. The gunshops up here thought they were getting it for a while too.

Karl.

02 June 2001, 18:47
<Cameron>
Karl,

Can't wait til you come home and we can load that monster right up and squeeze off a few shots. My shoulder is over-anxious as my 375h&h is just a walk in the park compared to the fun we're gunna have with the 585.

ciao

Cam

02 June 2001, 23:57
Karl
Cam,
Welcome to Saeed's site. Next week mate and the load development begins. Then no animal is safe. Especially ugly ones.

Any luck with Brady's pig problem?


Karl.

04 June 2001, 01:48
<Cameron>
Karl,

Very dissapointingly the pig problem has died right off. Dusty assures me it'll get worse into winter though. I think that all of the pigs in north Qld got word that There is a crazy man with a 375 in the hood. lol.
Is that Ray character always that cranky? Seems like quite a pleasant gentleman.

Cam