I will be shooting this cast bullet its a 550 gr. cast bullet wfn
at the present I shoot it with IMR 3031 64gr. and it gives 2024 fps average
would like between 1800 and 1900 but keep the load density touching the bottom of the bullet like the 3031 I get good and constant velocity
what powder should I use

64 grains of 4064.

thank you

If I ever decide to go 1700 to 1800 fps would it be safe to use powder in the range of IMR 4350
always whit putting powder up to the base of the bullet
thank you

4350 could be OK but accuracy could be good or terrible. You might also get a very heavy BOOM to the muzzle blast. You don't know until you try it out. However, I would regard 4350 as a poor choice in the 458 for level of load.

Really some air space will cause you no problems. Actually I reckon just dropping your 3031 charge should be fine.

What case are you loading? Guessing 458wm? I would not go slower powder like 4350 for 1700-1900. You can peruse the 458wm thread for some good loads for a big cast bullet. From aa2015 to aa2460 with some foam rod filler should do the trick. Cast is always an experiment in each barrel but two thousands over groove is normally a good idea if you can. Most 458wm have 459 grooves. Most.

thank everybody will take advice
stay with imp 4064 and get some of these foam rod filler and load down a bit

You won't need any filler and doubly so with a 550 grain bullet. That weight gives lots of resistance and so you get a good burn and good ignition.

at present I load 64 gr of imp 3031 and it touches the base of the bullet
I was suggested 64 gr. of imp 4064
my question is how far down can I go with ether powder
again thanks for the help

The 64 grains of 4064 will be very slightly further up in the case.

You should be fine at 60 grains.

When you go to low you get hang fires, that is, you pull the trigger and you get "click bang", a slight delay between the firing pin hitting the primer and the powder going off. It is very small, only a part of a second. It's all about the resistance the bullet offers in combination with powder type. So drop the bullet weight and a hangfire can occur or use slower powder. If can seat a bullet so it jams in the rifling then the load can be dropped a lot without hang fire. You can't do that in a 458 Winchester as they have a very long freebore, that is, the distance from the mouth of the case to the start of the rifling. A 458 is about an inch.

Hangfires can be common for people who play a lot with very reduced loads, often called squib loads.

The sort of loads you are using like 64 grains of 3031 and 550 grain bullets are not really reduced loads but more classed as mild loads. In fact loads like 64 grains of 3031 or even the bit slower 4064 would probably be in a loading manual as starting loads for a 500 or 550 grain bullet.

When I said you should be fine at 60 grains of either 3031 or 4064 I am just thinking of accuracy and this does not relate to space below the bullet but ignition and accuracy. However, it might be fine at 55 grains.

In general to get top accuracy with reduced loads can require more playing around and what works best can surprise you. One of the most consistently accurate loads I have used in the 460 Weatherby is 85 grains of IMR 4064 and the 500 grain bullet. Now that does have a lot of space below the bullet, a real lot of space. Velocity right on 2000 f/s.

But again the loads you are using are not really reuduced loads but classed as mild loads.

For light loads in big cases with both cast & jacket bullets I have had excellent results with Accurate Arms 5744. It is very fast burning, does not require a filler, and gives uniform velocities even when the case is only 1/2 full. For example, 40 grains 5744 and a 400-grain cast in a 450/400-3" and 50 grains 5744 and a 300-grain bullet in a .450-3 1/4" N.E. Also great in the .30-06 & similar cartridges.

yes its a 458 winchester safari express
used to have a sako brown bear in 450 Rigby but sold it not versatile for shootings cast
I have learn a lot since reading the 200 some pages of the thread 458 Winchester on big bore
I have some accurate 5744
can wait till spring here in Quebec its to cold to develop load
will post result
this is one of my group with 25 gr of 5744 in may 30-06 using Seaco 200 gr. cast bullet

5 shot 100 yards

The 5744 is ideal for reduced loads in the the big stuff like the 450/460. We have never had it in Australia.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... You can't do that in a 458 Winchester as they have a very long freebore, that is, the distance from the mouth of the case to the start of the rifling. A 458 is about an inch.

Clarification:
0.6725" is the distance (from maximum brass length of 2.5000") to start of rifling in the leade at 0.4580" groove diameter,
and 1.1420" is the distance to bore diameter of 0.4500" at the end of the leade where the rifling is fully formed,
so, partial, shallower rifling exists between those distances
in the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum and the .458 TRUMP.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection & Truly Realized Ultimately Magnificent President
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
... You can't do that in a 458 Winchester as they have a very long freebore, that is, the distance from the mouth of the case to the start of the rifling. A 458 is about an inch.

Clarification:
0.6725" is the distance (from maximum brass length of 2.5000") to start of rifling in the leade at 0.4580" groove diameter,
and 1.1420" is the distance to bore diameter of 0.4500" at the end of the leade where the rifling is fully formed,
so, partial, shallower rifling exists between those distances
in the SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum and the .458 TRUMP.

.458 TRUMP
Truly Realized Ultimate Magnum Perfection & Truly Realized Ultimately Magnificent President
.458 Winchester Magnum Perfection
Nota bene: In maxima potentia parvum spatium.
Id venit et vicit omnis.

So sort of close but different to the .75" in the 378 and 460

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:
The 5744 is ideal for reduced loads in the the big stuff like the 450/460. We have never had it in Australia.

Yes, 5744 is very good and you don't have to screw around with filler.

The question is, can the OP can source it in Canukistan?

I like that canuckistan
yes I already have some and tried it in my 450 Rigby can not wait to try it in my 458
I used 4759 no longer made years ago and great
the reason I like a slower powder its because with cast bullet I get lower pressure but definitely will try it

I use surplus IMR 7383 spotter powder for cast bullet loads in my 416. It has low bulk density and a burn rate close to 4350. Spotter powders have zero muzzle flash if that is important to you.

quote:

IMR 7383 spotter powder

could you elaborate on spotter powder
is ist regular 7383

7383 was made for 50. Caliber spotter tracer loads.
Google to read much on the facts that is slow and peaks quickly, Likely too quickly for normal use.

thank you

See the 458wm thread for great h4895 loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
See the 458wm thread for great h4895 loads.

66.3 grains of H4895 will be a 100% LR/net fill
if 64.0 grains of IMR-3031 is also, with your deeply seated 550-gr WFN-GC cast bullet.

The 66.3-gr H4895 charge might be only about 100 fps slower MV but will be more significantly lower pressure than 64 grains of IMR-3031.
Don't sweat cutting the charge of H4895 down a few grains to get it slower.
Some 95% net fill loads work very well.

thank you Rip
have some h4895
will try this this spring and give result on both 3031 and 4895
like lower pressure with cast