Hornady DG solid and expandable-any good?

29 July 2012, 00:54

gunslinger55

Does anyone have first hand knowledge of the quality of these new bullets? Price is reasonable thats for sure. Looking at a-frame, bear claw and various solid loads for a .416 RM the loaded price is less than half. Also the Lott load looks good on paper and the components are very reasonable to reload....

Thanks!

29 July 2012, 03:02

465H&H

Gunslinger,

This topic has been discussed at least a couple of times on here. I suggest you use the Find function above and if you don't find what you want then come back.

465h&H

29 July 2012, 06:52

pagosawingnut

Gunslinger,
I have not had a chance to try the DGS but was disappointed in the DGX's performance. Not saying it to be tacky because I use Hornady Interlocks in just about everything I shoot but I think the jacket is too brittle on the DGX. I tried it on buffalo last year in Zim. Shot at 20-21 yards, the DGX barely started to mushroom when the mushroom sheared off right at the ogive. The only other DGX we recovered, also at 20 yards, sheared off at the cannelure. Killed the Buffalo but the bullet didn't hold together very well. As far as I am concerned, they are really great for practice ammo.

29 July 2012, 08:28

gunslinger55

Thnaks papa. I read through multiple threads about loads, accuracy and velocity and a few media penetration tests but I was looking for actual terminal performance evals on game. Sounds like they are good practice ammo until they get it sorted out. I believe we are going to be taking McMillan ammo with north forks but I was hoping these would be OK in a pinch. What about the solids?

Thanks

29 July 2012, 08:56

pagosawingnut

Never got a chance to shoot any of them. Shot my buff at close range 5 times, all with soft points (DGX). He was still moving and I wasn't taking any chances that close. My .416 Rem LOVES the Barnes TSX. If you load, I could email my load data to you. The thing I really like about the Barnes is that the 350 TSX and the 400gr Banded solid shoot to the same point of aim at 50 and at 100. Shoots one hole groups out of my Remington at 100.
As for the DGS, though I didn't get a chance with them, they should work well, they are solid enough but I am done with the DGX.

29 July 2012, 20:25

notlim

here's a buffalo heart with a 500grn dgx from a 458 lott horn. factory load hole in it.

And a couple shots of what is left of a dgx after a run in with a buffalo

I also switched to tsx after looking at these
I did shoot something with a 500grn DGS from the lott and recovered the bullet- it looked great, ready to be loaded and fired again. I can't remember 100% for sure what I shot with it but I think it was stuck in a kudu- I'll try and find a pic of it as well

29 July 2012, 20:50

pagosawingnut

Notlim
The DGX that was my first shot into my buff from a .458 lott sheared off even closer to the top than that. I think the jacket is too stiff or brittle.

29 July 2012, 21:29

465H&H

I haven't used the DGX but have used the DGS on a couple of elephant. On frontal head shots you can expect to find the bullet had exited the back of the head and penetrated to the shoulder blade area. On broadside heart/lung shots expect it to exit the off side. Be careful of shoot throughs with it. Boddington and Tim Herald who both post here speak highly of both bullets but then again Hornady sponsors both of them. So?

465H&H

29 July 2012, 22:19

notlim

Yeah, My impression was that these were a bit brittle as well.
They are now relegated as cheap practice bullets for me. If I couldn't gt anything else I would take them and kill stuff (everything I shot with them so far was kind enough to expire shortly thereafter) BUT if I could get swifts or tsx's or northforks I would for sure add the extra $20 cost to my safari

and figure it money well spent.

My memory is jogging somewhat on the DGS but I think that the lead was starting to squirt out the bottom of the jacket- but other than that and the rifling marks it looked fine.

29 July 2012, 22:27

notlim

My DGX's are probably 2008 or 9 manufacture, so it is completely possible (probable?) that the jacket formula/alloy has been tweaked and the ones that Tim/Craig are shooting are much more ductile than these.

If I remember right, they were fairly new when I used them.

29 July 2012, 22:36

buffalo

I have tested the DGS .458" 500 grs solid on three elephants - many shots post mortem. As Walt says - expect the bullet to exit on sideon body shots. Well even on diagonal body shots... Mine exited (were fired at muzzlevel of 2300 fps) and they will also exit on all head shots..
As far as I remember JudgeG have some experience with the .416 400 grs DGS in his 416 Ruger - if I remember correctly he had very good penetration with that combo on ellies as well...

30 July 2012, 02:28

JudgeG

The below is correct with the DGS bullets as loaded by Hornady in the .416 Ruger. I'm not so sure that I'd exceed the factory velocities, btw.

quote:
Originally posted by buffalo:
I have tested the DGS .458" 500 grs solid on three elephants - many shots post mortem. As Walt says - expect the bullet to exit on sideon body shots. Well even on diagonal body shots... Mine exited (were fired at muzzlevel of 2300 fps) and they will also exit on all head shots..
As far as I remember JudgeG have some experience with the .416 400 grs DGS in his 416 Ruger - if I remember correctly he had very good penetration with that combo on ellies as well...

30 July 2012, 03:28

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
I haven't used the DGX but have used the DGS on a couple of elephant. On frontal head shots you can expect to find the bullet had exited the back of the head and penetrated to the shoulder blade area. On broadside heart/lung shots expect it to exit the off side. Be careful of shoot throughs with it. Boddington and Tim Herald who both post here speak highly of both bullets but then again Hornady sponsors both of them. So?

465H&H

I think Tim is sponsored by Nosler, not Hornady. "Nosler's Magnum Hunting TV"!!

30 July 2012, 04:05

465H&H

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by 465H&H:
I haven't used the DGX but have used the DGS on a couple of elephant. On frontal head shots you can expect to find the bullet had exited the back of the head and penetrated to the shoulder blade area. On broadside heart/lung shots expect it to exit the off side. Be careful of shoot throughs with it. Boddington and Tim Herald who both post here speak highly of both bullets but then again Hornady sponsors both of them. So?

465H&H

I think Tim is sponsored by Nosler, not Hornady. "Nosler's Magnum Hunting TV"!!

Your Right, I stand corrected.

465H&H

30 July 2012, 06:53

AK Caster

Like most of you, I welcomed better bullets and embraced them and used them. But lately find myself going back to cup and core construction (which have improved in their own right).

It is sort of ironic that hunters who claim a particular bullet failed, do so after removing it from a dead animal

30 July 2012, 07:14

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by AK Caster:
Like most of you, I welcomed better bullets and embraced them and used them. But lately find myself going back to cup and core construction (which have improved in their own right).

It is sort of ironic that hunters who claim a particular bullet failed, do so after removing it from a dead animal

As discussed here many times in the past, that is a valid argument when considering Plains Game. However, when it comes to Dangerous Game, although a dead animal is the ultimate goal, an animal that is killed, stopped, and under control from the time the first shot is fired is the immediate concern. A bullet that comes apart prior to fully penetrating to the vitals and doing it's damage, may very well kill the animal, eventually. But if the bullet comes apart prior to doing enough damage to keep it under control, it very well may get to you as well.

Think of the old argument of shooting a 300lb criminal who is hyped up on PCP and Cocaine, intent on doing you and your family bodily harm, with a 22lr. Yea, it will kill him. But will it stop him in his tracks or keep him under control enough to prevent him from carrying out his plan until the little bullet takes effect.

I prefer to use a bullet that I KNOW will perform the job than rely on a bullet that PROBABLY will stay together long enough to do it's work. I'll NEVER shoot a non-bonded, cup and core bullet at anything that has the ability to stomp, bite, or claw me. Not unless that is absolutely all I have available at the time!

30 July 2012, 08:16

465H&H

I have never used the Hornady DGX on any animal. I do think that because steel is so brittle, it isn't a good envelope for bullets designed for dangerous game. There are better alternatives.

465H&H

30 July 2012, 08:58

notlim

Hi Caster,
I'm not sure if the failure comment is directed at me, but if it is you will notice that nowhere in my post(s) did I say the dgx failed. There is no doubt the buffalo died-would it of died quicker from a super premium in the same spot-I don't know. I'm pretty sure my shot placement that time was about as good as I can do

. I do also know that with subsequent buffalo shot with a 450grn tsx I had exit holes-not half a bullet stuck inside somewhere. I recovered 3 .458 500grn dgx's from my lott on that trip. One was in an impala-not really what I would consider a heavy enough beast to stop a full load 500grn from a lott-do you?

Just relaying my experience to the OP-backed up by on the spot pictures.

How have your experiences with the dgx been?

I figured once I got a good look at a buff up close and an even closer look at an ele about 1 minute before I shot that particular buff that the lott that looked like such a cannon at home wasn't really all that big at all-and premium bullets might not really be a waste of money....

30 July 2012, 09:06

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by notlim:
Hi Caster,
I'm not sure if the failure comment is directed at me, but if it is you will notice that nowhere in my post(s) did I say the dgx failed. There is no doubt the buffalo died-would it of died quicker from a super premium in the same spot-I don't know. I do know that with subsequent buffalo shot with a 450grn tsx I had exit holes-not half a bullet stuck inside somewhere. I recovered 3.458 500grn dgx's on that trip. One was in an impala-not really what I would consider a heavy enough beast to stop a 500grn from a lot-do you?
Just relaying my experience to the OP-backed up by on the spot pictures.

How have your experiences with the dgx been?

Notlim, here is another one in line with your experience.

On my 2008 leopard hunt, my PH had stopped a leopard charge two weeks prior to my arrival. He stopped it with a 458 Lott and 500gr DGX. Recovered the bullet as well. He drilled a hole in it and suspended it from the rear view mirror of his Land Cruiser.

Recovered a 500gr, 458 lott out of a leopard at close range!!

Let that one sink in a bit then ask yourself if you want to shoot that bullet at a buffalo!! I'll pass!!

30 July 2012, 09:18

notlim

Hi Todd,
But as Caster was kind enough to point out -the leopard died

I wonder how many leopards and impalas I could stack together and still get exits with a tsx or NF- 4? 5? damn sure more than 1

30 July 2012, 09:32

Blank

I shot them both in my 416 Ruger Hawkeye and 450/400 Ruger #1 on my 2009 trip to Zim. Recovered one DGX from my buffalo on a double shoulder shot. None of the DGS were recovered from the tuskless ele. Switched to the 450/400 for bushbuck and impala after that, and they opened up to about a one inch exit hole on both, thru the shoulders.

I was very pleased with both accuracy and all my penetration testing in media (gelatin, wet paper, sand), before I took them with me. These were new lot 2009 issue. Would not hesitate to use them again.

Recovered 400 gr DGX is below.

30 July 2012, 10:57

AK Caster

For the record, never shot an animal with a DGX or DGS. But having read 100's of tales of good and bad bullets can be enlightening.

Some people use brand X soft points and brag about how it went thru both shoulders, exited and wasnt recovered. How can they say it is great bullet performance if they never see the bullet afterwards?

Just because a solid exited, does not mean it performed perfectly either.

Not claiming DGS or DGX are great bullets. Just wanted to plant some issues to think about. Most of you have much more experience than I with large game but sometimes I think hunters fall into a rut as to what makes a good or bad bullet.

30 July 2012, 11:15

505G

quote:
Originally posted by notlim:
Hi Todd,
But as Caster was kind enough to point out -the leopard died

I wonder how many leopards and impalas I could stack together and still get exits with a tsx or NF- 4? 5? damn sure more than 1

My 505 Gibbs was used once to put an original Woodleigh Solid through 5 big pigs standing in a row on a bank and I reckon they would be a bit more solid than an Leopard or Impala.

30 July 2012, 12:33

AK Caster

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by notlim:
Hi Caster,
I'm not sure if the failure comment is directed at me, but if it is you will notice that nowhere in my post(s) did I say the dgx failed. There is no doubt the buffalo died-would it of died quicker from a super premium in the same spot-I don't know. I do know that with subsequent buffalo shot with a 450grn tsx I had exit holes-not half a bullet stuck inside somewhere. I recovered 3.458 500grn dgx's on that trip. One was in an impala-not really what I would consider a heavy enough beast to stop a 500grn from a lot-do you?
Just relaying my experience to the OP-backed up by on the spot pictures.

How have your experiences with the dgx been?

Notlim, here is another one in line with your experience.

On my 2008 leopard hunt, my PH had stopped a leopard charge two weeks prior to my arrival. He stopped it with a 458 Lott and 500gr DGX. Recovered the bullet as well. He drilled a hole in it and suspended it from the rear view mirror of his Land Cruiser.

Recovered a 500gr, 458 lott out of a leopard at close range!!

Let that one sink in a bit then ask yourself if you want to shoot that bullet at a buffalo!! I'll pass!!

Stopped the charging leopard and killed it as well. I call that pretty good performance

31 July 2012, 09:23

Antlers

My limited experience with the DGX:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...461058361#3461058361

My only experience with the DGX was on my tuskless and it performed very well.

02 August 2012, 07:01

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by AK Caster:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by notlim:
Hi Caster,
I'm not sure if the failure comment is directed at me, but if it is you will notice that nowhere in my post(s) did I say the dgx failed. There is no doubt the buffalo died-would it of died quicker from a super premium in the same spot-I don't know. I do know that with subsequent buffalo shot with a 450grn tsx I had exit holes-not half a bullet stuck inside somewhere. I recovered 3.458 500grn dgx's on that trip. One was in an impala-not really what I would consider a heavy enough beast to stop a 500grn from a lot-do you?
Just relaying my experience to the OP-backed up by on the spot pictures.

How have your experiences with the dgx been?

Notlim, here is another one in line with your experience.

On my 2008 leopard hunt, my PH had stopped a leopard charge two weeks prior to my arrival. He stopped it with a 458 Lott and 500gr DGX. Recovered the bullet as well. He drilled a hole in it and suspended it from the rear view mirror of his Land Cruiser.

Recovered a 500gr, 458 lott out of a leopard at close range!!

Let that one sink in a bit then ask yourself if you want to shoot that bullet at a buffalo!! I'll pass!!

Stopped the charging leopard and killed it as well. I call that pretty good performance

Yep, pretty good performance on a thin skinned, lightly built cat with a 458 Lott!

Do you want to try that on a Cape Buffalo?

I don't!

02 August 2012, 17:53

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by notlim:
Hi Todd,
But as Caster was kind enough to point out -the leopard died

I wonder how many leopards and impalas I could stack together and still get exits with a tsx or NF- 4? 5? damn sure more than 1

You are missing the point is seems. The fact the leopard died is ancilliary to the issue at hand in that if a 500 GRAIN bullet designed for HUGE animals like buffalo fail to shoot thorough a 150lb cat, how will they fare on the shoulder of an 1800lb buffalo. There's a lsesson there somewhere....

04 August 2012, 02:32

AK Caster

Not sure if he is missing the point. I read a soft point from a 458 Lott was recovered inside a leopard that was shot while charging.
How long is a leopard from end to end not counting the tail? 4 feet? Maybe more?
No one gave any particulars but if the leopard was shot in the chest or head and the bullet went through those bones and tensed up muscles and was recovered in the hind quarter area why would that not be good bullet performance? Would you expect a soft point to go through more than 4 feet on any animal?

04 August 2012, 05:47

dirklawyer

For a conventional solid the DGS is a winner, the soft point is a looser. IMO, use swift aframe, TSX, northfork, nosler, bear claw for a good dependable soft.

04 August 2012, 05:56

Kebco

Never used the solid, but have taken 5 buffalo and a bison with the 450 Nitro DGX. Never recovered a bullet as all passed through regardless of angle.
I wonder if the design has been changed/improved recently? All my ammo was mfg within the last 10 months.

07 August 2012, 04:32

gunslinger55

Interesting. I guess the DGS is thumbs up and the DGX may have had some marginal performance. Mine are brand new I guess I can call up hornady and see if they changed the formula.

07 August 2012, 04:44

Kebco

I talked to Hornady today, there was some changes to the DGX bullet several years ago, but nothing recently

08 August 2012, 08:17

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger55:
Interesting. I guess the DGS is thumbs up and the DGX may have had some marginal performance. Mine are brand new I guess I can call up hornady and see if they changed the formula.

Not sure I still buy this 100%. I agree that the DGS appears to be OK as far as terminal performance. I agree the DGX is marginal. But another of my issues with these two is in their use in double rifles. Going to the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" thread, the two Hornady bullets produced the 2nd and 3rd highest barrel strains, only exceeded by the Woodleigh FMJ.

DGS in a bolt. Maybe. Neither in a Double! DGX, never at something that can hurt you. Those statements are mine and mine alone. But in all honesty, why the debate? There are other bullets on the market such as the TSX, CEBs, and Northfork that are easier on the barrels of both bolt guns and doubles. And these three are head and shoulders better on terminal performance. Not most of the time or some of the time. Of course, any bullet can fail. But I prefer not to use a bullet that is just as likely to fail as not, such as the DGX.

08 August 2012, 08:51

gunslinger55

The real value to me is they ar $46 a box of 50 for both. That makes for some affordable .458 practice ammo I guess. Also for the .416 and .375 even cheaper. I looked at a loaded box of 20 .416 RM swift A frame at a buck fifty a box. Most are well over a hundred, so loading twenty at those prices is cheeep. But I guess as always you get what you pay for.

You saying they are steel jacketed and are hard on barrels I guess by the strain guage referral?

09 August 2012, 03:21

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by gunslinger55:
The real value to me is they ar $46 a box of 50 for both. That makes for some affordable .458 practice ammo I guess. Also for the .416 and .375 even cheaper. I looked at a loaded box of 20 .416 RM swift A frame at a buck fifty a box. Most are well over a hundred, so loading twenty at those prices is cheeep. But I guess as always you get what you pay for.

To each his own but I practice with what I shoot for real. When considering the price of a DG hunt in Africa, the bullets are about the cheapest part of the deal.

You saying they are steel jacketed and are hard on barrels I guess by the strain guage referral?

Way too much info to post in a response. Check out the "Double Rifle Bullet of the Future" thread here on this forum. Here is the link: http://forums.accuratereloadin...#1201069141/color%5D